The Wolftime Review Thread

[DarkChaplain]

The culture shock from Gaius meeting the Wolves for the first time, that feeling of awe to finally see the real thing, and then quickly realizing how much out of his depth he and his brothers are on a cultural level, is just wonderful.

There's such a refreshing level of naivety in his weeb-ish appreciation for things to connect him to his gene-roots, and then finding out that his preconceptions aren't necessarily correct, he's making mistakes, and doesn't understand their language properly, to the point of getting tricked into using slurs as greetings among other Wolves...

 

It's a wonderful book for that alone already, it does so much to make Primaris dramatically interesting, and highlights that the adoption of them wasn't without problems. A lot of early 8th+ works were too clean in this regard, or focusing too much on general mistrust for the new boys and their toys. But the cultural discrepancy has been barely explored in the past; we were often led to believe that Primaris fit right in with their parent Chapters' cultures, when this was neither plausible nor narratively interesting.

[Noserenda]

Gaius' sections are definitely the highlight of the book for me, though the politicking does get better in the latter half at least :) 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The culture shock from Gaius meeting the Wolves for the first time, that feeling of awe to finally see the real thing, and then quickly realizing how much out of his depth he and his brothers are on a cultural level, is just wonderful.

There's such a refreshing level of naivety in his weeb-ish appreciation for things to connect him to his gene-roots, and then finding out that his preconceptions aren't necessarily correct, he's making mistakes, and doesn't understand their language properly, to the point of getting tricked into using slurs as greetings among other Wolves...

 

It's a wonderful book for that alone already, it does so much to make Primaris dramatically interesting, and highlights that the adoption of them wasn't without problems. A lot of early 8th+ works were too clean in this regard, or focusing too much on general mistrust for the new boys and their toys. But the cultural discrepancy has been barely explored in the past; we were often led to believe that Primaris fit right in with their parent Chapters' cultures, when this was neither plausible nor narratively interesting.

 

This is the best part of the book and Gav handles it well. That said I don't blame Black Library authors for not wanting to touch this subject mainly because I think each chapter should have a unique response. I do like that Gav explores it from three different angles.

 

1) Logan focusing on the obligation not the gift. I wish he had interacted with Gaius because I don't think his change of heart was earned. I think if he had met him first it would have made more sense (or if his advisors had more arguments with him). This is a really minor compliant I just think if the book hadn't had some of the side arcs and reinforced this it could've gone from good to great.

 

2) The squad level interactions. You mostly covered this, but it's good to see that different squads react to them differently. The fact that Gaius gets teased because of how hard he is trying is relatable. It also provides an arc for character growth, Giaus becomes what he wants on merit and does question whether or not the wolves acceptance should matter to him.

 

3) The political aspect within the chapter. Krom sees all upside and tries to take advantage. He isn't worried about them for a second, he just sees a way to get his company into a strong position (instead of the weak one they're in). 

 

Having these reactions is great but I don't think you can just cram them into a book. It definitely has to be the main plot hopefully we get more like it because I think there can be a lot of unique takes, and we're more interested in those relationships than BL gives us credit for.

 

 

[theSpirea]

Finished it over the weekend and it didn't disappoint. I'd rate it a bit higher than the previous Clark's entry in the series.

 

There were multiple plotlines and sometimes it felt like Gav slapped together two novels and one novella. Luckily, later on it all started coming together and it worked. Gaius' parts were the most enjoyable, closely followed by Mudire's.

 

I'm not sure if it was an accident or BL is listening to fans' feedback but I greatly appreciate lack of bolter porn. The main focus is on politicking, integration of Primaris, Fenris culture and I loved that. I'm hyped for the next book in the series and I'm definitely getting the Special edition.

 

I was reading reviews on Audible/Amazon/Goodreads and it's getting mostly positive reviews but there are also people trashing it for strange reasons. Mostly people expected Russ to come back and complained about the title. Expecting Primarch's return to be announced/revealed in BL book is wishful thinking. I don't believe the title is misleading. The Wolftime is the main focus of Logan's plotline. And reviews as "Came for a warhammer book, but this was half filled with a story of life on Ferris.", etc.

 

If you're reading this, Gav, amazing job, keep it up!

[Bulwyf]

So...we don't get any signs that Russ is coming back? From a book entitled the Wolftime? Just started reading it today in the hopes we at least see some signs of his coming since it was pretty much outright stated in the SW codex and supplement in 8th and 9th respectively all the prophecies/signs have been met.

[DukeLeto69]

So...we don't get any signs that Russ is coming back? From a book entitled the Wolftime? Just started reading it today in the hopes we at least see some signs of his coming since it was pretty much outright stated in the SW codex and supplement in 8th and 9th respectively all the prophecies/signs have been met.

Gav Thorpe/BL did some serious trolling there lol

[DarkChaplain]

So...we don't get any signs that Russ is coming back? From a book entitled the Wolftime? Just started reading it today in the hopes we at least see some signs of his coming since it was pretty much outright stated in the SW codex and supplement in 8th and 9th respectively all the prophecies/signs have been met.

No, because this isn't about the Wolftime actually happening, but about Grimnar trying to make it happen out of sheer desperation and misalignment with Guilliman. "The Wolftime" is rooted so deep in the Wolves' ideology, heck, spiritualism, that sheer faith that Russ will come home at the very end when everything is lost, Grimnar is incapable of accepting that there might be hope yet.

 

Grimnar has been a little bit obsessed with finding Russ, and seeing him return in his lifetime. He's got lost on search endeavors before. He's attempting to force Russ to act and return by manufacturing the Wolves' demise through stubborness.

 

The book is about what The Wolftime means spiritually to the Wolves and for the Wolves. It's about how they see their end, and the end of the galaxy, approaching at breakneck pace, and have to decide whether to run up to it, embrace it, or take a step back and prepare to meet the storm with defiance.

Grimnar himself even reflects on this throughout. It's about a shift in thinking for the Wolves - away from stubborn fatalism, back to righteous fury and hope for the future.

 

The expectation of seeing Russ return should've never even occured, frankly, as the book is at least 9-10 years before the current timeline, where Russ simply isn't a thing. It's set years before Ragnar and Ghaz have their duel(s). Just because the portents have been met in the fluff, that doesn't automatically mean they've been met in a novel set before the current edition's timeline's stopping point, or that it'll happen immediately.

[Karhedron]

The trolling was a follow-up to Ashes of Prospero which hinted at several Primarchs potentially returning.

[jaxom]

It may be beyond the scope of this board, but Wolftime parallels a lot of real-world issues that religions with prophesied end times have gone through. I felt the writing really captured the uncertainty and conflict between faith-based "let it get worse before it gets better [because the apocalypse happens]" and secular-based "stop the disaster before it happens".

[Noserenda]

There has also been a Russ model waiting for a moment to release since Guiliman apparently, so obviously plans shifted but some of the groundwork is still out there whether or not hes actually coming back anytime soon.

[Bulwyf]

There has also been a Russ model waiting for a moment to release since Guiliman apparently, so obviously plans shifted but some of the groundwork is still out there whether or not hes actually coming back anytime soon.

 

I have heard this as well. That GW has the 40k Russ model ready to go for the current timeline. It is killing me as someone that's played SW since they were a legal army to have him back in 40k. 

[Bulwyf]

 

So...we don't get any signs that Russ is coming back? From a book entitled the Wolftime? Just started reading it today in the hopes we at least see some signs of his coming since it was pretty much outright stated in the SW codex and supplement in 8th and 9th respectively all the prophecies/signs have been met.

No, because this isn't about the Wolftime actually happening, but about Grimnar trying to make it happen out of sheer desperation and misalignment with Guilliman. "The Wolftime" is rooted so deep in the Wolves' ideology, heck, spiritualism, that sheer faith that Russ will come home at the very end when everything is lost, Grimnar is incapable of accepting that there might be hope yet.

 

Grimnar has been a little bit obsessed with finding Russ, and seeing him return in his lifetime. He's got lost on search endeavors before. He's attempting to force Russ to act and return by manufacturing the Wolves' demise through stubborness.

 

The book is about what The Wolftime means spiritually to the Wolves and for the Wolves. It's about how they see their end, and the end of the galaxy, approaching at breakneck pace, and have to decide whether to run up to it, embrace it, or take a step back and prepare to meet the storm with defiance.

Grimnar himself even reflects on this throughout. It's about a shift in thinking for the Wolves - away from stubborn fatalism, back to righteous fury and hope for the future.

 

The expectation of seeing Russ return should've never even occured, frankly, as the book is at least 9-10 years before the current timeline, where Russ simply isn't a thing. It's set years before Ragnar and Ghaz have their duel(s). Just because the portents have been met in the fluff, that doesn't automatically mean they've been met in a novel set before the current edition's timeline's stopping point, or that it'll happen immediately.

 

 

I called it. I said that this would be a troll job and Russ would not only not return but they wouldn't even give a hint of his coming back. Disappointed to see I was right. This is just another shoe horn primaris into different Chapters fluff. Oh well. Another middle finger to SW fans by GW. 

[cheywood]

Maybe I’m just cynical, but I thought that was clear from the get go. When Russ is coming back a BL novel won’t be the way we hear about it.

[theSpirea]

I enjoyed the book and I'd say Gav did a decent job introducing Primaris to SW without feeling it forced. I fail to see "middle finger to SW fans by GW". It was fairly clear BL wouldn't be announcing through their novels Russ coming back.

[Bulwyf]

I enjoyed the book and I'd say Gav did a decent job introducing Primaris to SW without feeling it forced. I fail to see "middle finger to SW fans by GW". It was fairly clear BL wouldn't be announcing through their novels Russ coming back.

 

A book called "Wolftime" when every SW fan since almost day one knows that is what is called when Russ comes back. And not only does it not have Russ it doesn't even give a hint that he is about to come back. That's a middle finger to SW fans.

 

If BL did a novel called "The Lion Awakes" and it didn't have the Lion in it or even hinted at him coming back, that's a middle finger to DA fans. Deliberate misrepresentation of a novel title to con people into buying it. 

 

As I said before, I fully expected this to be a troll job and it was. I hate being right when it comes to being disappointed or disrespected by GW.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Bulwyf

[Gamiel]

I'm actually a bit surprised that some fan expected Russ to come back in a book that take place before Ragnar Blackmane: Saga of the Beast, the end of The Devastation of Baal, and the Vigilus campain (among others) in which there have been no mention of any secund returned primarch. 

[Noserenda]

 

There has also been a Russ model waiting for a moment to release since Guiliman apparently, so obviously plans shifted but some of the groundwork is still out there whether or not hes actually coming back anytime soon.

 

I have heard this as well. That GW has the 40k Russ model ready to go for the current timeline. It is killing me as someone that's played SW since they were a legal army to have him back in 40k. 

 

Same, though ive not played them much since the flanderisation started kicking in

 

 

 

 

No, because this isn't about the Wolftime actually happening, but about Grimnar trying to make it happen out of sheer desperation and misalignment with Guilliman. "The Wolftime" is rooted so deep in the Wolves' ideology, heck, spiritualism, that sheer faith that Russ will come home at the very end when everything is lost, Grimnar is incapable of accepting that there might be hope yet.

 

Grimnar has been a little bit obsessed with finding Russ, and seeing him return in his lifetime. He's got lost on search endeavors before. He's attempting to force Russ to act and return by manufacturing the Wolves' demise through stubborness.

 

The book is about what The Wolftime means spiritually to the Wolves and for the Wolves. It's about how they see their end, and the end of the galaxy, approaching at breakneck pace, and have to decide whether to run up to it, embrace it, or take a step back and prepare to meet the storm with defiance.

Grimnar himself even reflects on this throughout. It's about a shift in thinking for the Wolves - away from stubborn fatalism, back to righteous fury and hope for the future.

 

The expectation of seeing Russ return should've never even occured, frankly, as the book is at least 9-10 years before the current timeline, where Russ simply isn't a thing. It's set years before Ragnar and Ghaz have their duel(s). Just because the portents have been met in the fluff, that doesn't automatically mean they've been met in a novel set before the current edition's timeline's stopping point, or that it'll happen immediately.

 

 

I called it. I said that this would be a troll job and Russ would not only not return but they wouldn't even give a hint of his coming back. Disappointed to see I was right. This is just another shoe horn primaris into different Chapters fluff. Oh well. Another middle finger to SW fans by GW. 

 

I mean, Primaris are the current space marine line, no shoehorning needed, and in a very real sense the Wolftime has begun, no need for Russ to pop back right at the start. Plus its genuinely quite a solid book, much better than a lot of the actual pulp most Spacewolf tie ins have been the last decade or so.

[DarkChaplain]

I also wonder where the whole "no hint of Russ coming back!!!!" idea comes from. The whole thing is discussed at length. Njal has persistent visions throughout, as do other Fenrisians. Parts of them are fulfilled in the book - others are not.

 

Heck, it ends with Njal going on a "vision quest" in the Underverse of Fenris - the same thing that Russ went to in Wolfsbane, and Ragnar did in Saga of the Beast. Ashes of Prospero, even with its wonkiness, starts with Njal returning from this.

We can argue the canonicity of Ashes of Prospero all we like (and I would not even be surprised to see a re-issue with edits like Dark Imperium; funnily enough, it even talks about Gathalamor early on, despite being released years before Dawn of Fire), but Njal's journey is directly related to figuring out what's going on with Russ.

 

If anything, we're seeing a lot of setup for the Wolves to be ready for Russ's return and its implications.

[Karhedron]

 

There has also been a Russ model waiting for a moment to release since Guiliman apparently, so obviously plans shifted but some of the groundwork is still out there whether or not hes actually coming back anytime soon.

 

I have heard this as well. That GW has the 40k Russ model ready to go for the current timeline. It is killing me as someone that's played SW since they were a legal army to have him back in 40k.

 

Like a good saga, this tail has gotten longer with every telling.

 

The original rumour on this was from late 7th edition, about 6 months before the Wrath of Magnus. One of the more reliable rumour-mongers of the day (a chap who went by the name of Hastings) claimed to have seen design artwork for 5 Prmiarchs: Magnus, Guilliman, Mortarion, Angron and Russ. He was not taken very seriously with many people claiming Primarchs would never been seen outside 30K.

 

6 months later, Magnus came out and suddenly everyone was eating humble pie and asking for more. Hastings info is 3/5 but we have not seen anything since the start of 8th edition. Design artwork is the first step towards producing models but that does not mean they have a fully finished Russ ready to go.

[Bulwyf]

 

 

There has also been a Russ model waiting for a moment to release since Guiliman apparently, so obviously plans shifted but some of the groundwork is still out there whether or not hes actually coming back anytime soon.

 

I have heard this as well. That GW has the 40k Russ model ready to go for the current timeline. It is killing me as someone that's played SW since they were a legal army to have him back in 40k.

 

Like a good saga, this tail has gotten longer with every telling.

 

The original rumour on this was from late 7th edition, about 6 months before the Wrath of Magnus. One of the more reliable rumour-mongers of the day (a chap who went by the name of Hastings) claimed to have seen design artwork for 5 Prmiarchs: Magnus, Guilliman, Mortarion, Angron and Russ. He was not taken very seriously with many people claiming Primarchs would never been seen outside 30K.

 

6 months later, Magnus came out and suddenly everyone was eating humble pie and asking for more. Hastings info is 3/5 but we have not seen anything since the start of 8th edition. Design artwork is the first step towards producing models but that does not mean they have a fully finished Russ ready to go.

 

 

I had a source within the community team that leaked a few things to me. All of them have come true so far but two. EC getting their own codex/model range and Russ coming back and the model is ready. Since the track record was spot on I do believe that GW is ready to go at some point with those two things happening.

[jaxom]

 

6 months later, Magnus came out and suddenly everyone was eating humble pie and asking for more. Hastings info is 3/5 but we have not seen anything since the start of 8th edition. Design artwork is the first step towards producing models but that does not mean they have a fully finished Russ ready to go.

 

Yes, a lot of times a company with end up with way more concept art, digital mock-ups, and full scale renders than they need. I've noticed our own design folders have ballooned as CAD and digital illustration have made iteration and "try this other layer on top of the skeleton" so straightforward.

 

 

The Wolftime is a specific event and has pretty much been confirmed in the 8th edition SW codex and 9th edition supplement that the signs and prophecies have been met for it. This isn't a shared religion. This is something that the SW know will happen. Unlike real religions where you can believe in whatever (I am an Orthodox Christian and I'll leave it at that) you want this is something tangible and real in the make believe setting of 40k.

Calling the book "Wolftime" is clearly a bait and switch aimed at SW fans who have been asking for Russ to return for as long as that fluff came out. 2nd edition maybe? It has been a long time. As I said in another post imagine BL comes out with a novel called "The Lion Awakes" and yet the novel doesn't actually have the Lion in it or has hints that he is in fact waking up. You don't think Dark Angels fans wouldn't be upset with that?

 

I was having trouble understanding your viewpoint, but this was very helpful. I've been reading some of the older Eldar books and the Phoenix Lords talk about the Rhana Dandra a lot. The Eldar are always looking for it as it signals the possible defeat of Slaanesh. If there were an Eldar book published called Rhana Dandra then I can see how it could cause the same hype. On the other hand, the Dawn of Fire series is meant to fill in details leading into Psychic Awakening and Dark Imperium. Knowing Russ isn't mentioned at all in those, that's were I still struggle to reconcile expectations that Wolftime would contain anything new on the Russ-front.

[Brother Lunkhead]

=][=

 

It's getting a bit hot in the kitchen, so let's open up some windows and cool things off a bit, shall we?

 

It's fine to have different perspectives and opinions and equally fine to discuss those differences However, vitriol and sarcasm are NOT fine

 

Keep it friendly fraters.

 

=][=

[Petitioner's City]

Thanks Brother Lunkhead, and sorry for overstepping. Apologies to Bulwyf too, for responding hot under the collar.

[Bulwyf]

Thanks Brother Lunkhead, and sorry for overstepping. Apologies to Bulwyf too, for responding hot under the collar.

 

I accept your apology. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Brother Lunkhead

[Noserenda]

 

 

There has also been a Russ model waiting for a moment to release since Guiliman apparently, so obviously plans shifted but some of the groundwork is still out there whether or not hes actually coming back anytime soon.

 

I have heard this as well. That GW has the 40k Russ model ready to go for the current timeline. It is killing me as someone that's played SW since they were a legal army to have him back in 40k.

 

Like a good saga, this tail has gotten longer with every telling.

 

The original rumour on this was from late 7th edition, about 6 months before the Wrath of Magnus. One of the more reliable rumour-mongers of the day (a chap who went by the name of Hastings) claimed to have seen design artwork for 5 Prmiarchs: Magnus, Guilliman, Mortarion, Angron and Russ. He was not taken very seriously with many people claiming Primarchs would never been seen outside 30K.

 

6 months later, Magnus came out and suddenly everyone was eating humble pie and asking for more. Hastings info is 3/5 but we have not seen anything since the start of 8th edition. Design artwork is the first step towards producing models but that does not mean they have a fully finished Russ ready to go.

 

Yes its come back again with a couple of sources having seen Angron and Russ in the flesh around the studio, with Angron apparently coming out later this year-2023 with the World Eaters and Russ still in limbo. 

 

Honestly they had a big shift in plot direction in 8th which abandoned a lot of threads from 7th and the 8th rulebook and seem to have refocused on the Indomnitus era and i think both ran afoul of this and/or pumping the breaks on more primarchs.

 

Obviously minis get cancelled or delayed all the time but if the plastic sprue got cut its almost certainly a matter of time right? Well, assuming what folks saw werent masters.