Optimal VV loadout

[superwill]

Hey team,

 

What do people rock on their VV these days?

 

I’ve seen a bit of a mix in the competitive scene, between some rocking 100% claw+shield and some opting for a mixed squad including claws, hammers, chainswords, some unshielded.

 

I’m interested to know your opinions and your experiences - particularly those who do play competitively but still keen to hear other experiences too. VV are one of my favourite units, are iconic as RG, and are also one of the best SM units right now.

 

Personally I’m leaning towards having some in the squad who are superfluous bullet catchers (CS and shield) that can absorb a few shots before I’m losing the more valuable lads. But the flipside is that LCs aren’t really that expensive and if you’re going to use our strats and WLTs to launch some VV off for a T1 ambush it’s good for them to maximise the investment by being kitted out for pain.

 

I like the idea of a relic blade (maybe even with master crafted) or a hammer on the sergeant. Just gives the squad a couple more options for what it can engage, and the opponent has to dedicate a decent amount of firepower to kill the other 9 before removing the sergeant.

 

Is anyone not running all 10 with SS? I would love the double claw combo for the cool factor, but it’s hard to justify the cost when having a single claw gives you most of the benefit already. And it stops you taking a shield.

Edited November 7, 2021 by superwill

[Karhedron]

I would run 2 5 man squads rather than 1 10 man squad. Better for Morale, immune to Blast and twice as many sergeants.

 

I would opt for 4 LC/SS dudes and a TH and pistol of some description. I don't see much point in cheap bullet catchers since a LC only costs a few points and is well worth the investment. If you expect a lot of Mortal Wounds you could run one guy "naked" but it doesn't save a lot of points and is pretty situational.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Jump packs are mandatory, as are at least some storm shields and some sort of weapon upgrade. But it's totally viable to save points by putting chainswords (even double chainswords) on some and no shields on others. You just need enough storm shields for the squad to do its job. Same for the lightning claws/thunder hammers. If the entire squad is just chainswords and/or unshielded, it severely limits your options. There will be many units that are typically handled by VV that you can no longer safely engage or efficiently damage because of the lack of defensive or offensive wargear.

 

I would say at least 2 or 3 storm shields per 5 VV, the more the better, and same for power weapons. I don't think maxing out the entire squad with thunder hammers and storm shield specifically like what was done in the past is correct anymore, the points cost is too high and storm shields are weaker and the meta has changed from those days. A squad of 5 LC 5 SS should still be okay, I've seen some winning lists use that.

[XeonDragon]

My thoughts:

1. You can only take 3 squads. If you want to go all-melee successors, taking 3 squads of 10 and combat squadding them is good. 
2. Shields on at least 3 is, in my opinion, mandatory (unless going a suicide unit, see point 5 below).
3. At lightning claws and shields are awesome. If you take born heroes then they are naturally hitting on 2s. This means a plain (i.e. no WL trait) bike/jump captain with them means they are re-rolling all missed hits and wounds. 
4. Thunder hammers are good in the era of -1 damage units, but the lack of AP compared to power fists can hurt, especially before the assault doctrine kicks in. Thunder hammers = big target on the unit, so expect them to be targeted. I think a mixture of fists and hammers is viable. I am building some. You could do worse than take a unit of 10, 5 with hammers (including the sergeant) and 5 with fists, sending in the fists first.
5. Twin lightning claw units make for a good suicide/movement jamming unit. Melta bomb stratagem is awesome. Charge in, do mortal wounds, claw at big vehicle, wrap and trap, die soaking up firepower next turn whilst other units get onto objective and within charge range against it
6. You could do worse than going 3 units of 10 VGVs as a successor with BH/WOR and go 10 lightning claws (either all double or 5 double and 5 with shields), 10 shield and claw, 10 split between hammers and fists. Combat squad as you see fit. 
7. I would go at least half of all your VGV squads being mainly/all LC+SS. Having more than half your VGVs with hammers or fists is probably effective, but not efficient (as per @Tyberous's point above)
8. Relic blade on sergeant is good, especially in LC/CS units as it allows them to (in a pinch) pitch in against tougher targets.
9. A thunder hammer and lightning claw on a sergeant is exactly 15 points... and makes for a versatile unit
10. In my experience, even with Raven's Blade and swift and deadly, charges from deep strike are not that reliable. I lean towards staring all but my hammer and shield VGVs on the table. 
11. Units of 6 or 7 can be great to confuse your opponent. A unit of 10 is going to be major, priority target. Units of 5 are sometimes ignored, or only allocated enough shooting to make a dent, rather than enough ensure it is wiped out. 6 or 7 can result in the opponent under-estimating the threat it poses. But, yes, blast is a thing.   

I think it is really important to pick characters to match your VGVs. For example, if you go lightning claw and shield, I'm not sure a bike captain with a thunder hammer and shield is the best escort. Likewise if you go claws and shields, not sure a bike chaplain is the best fit as you can get re-rolling all hits with just a normal captain (it's not the worst, but yeah). 

 

I think for hammer and shield VGVs, a chaplain (jump or bike) with litanies to re-roll hits, +1 to wound and +2 to charge (even after advancing) with swift and deadly WL trait is great. Close to maximising their efficiency and mobility (a jump Lt for re-roll 1s to wound would result in max output, but that is a LOT of investment via two characters in one unit).

 

For LC+SS VGVs, I think a basic captain + strike from the skies and lay low the tyrants stratagems is enough (end result against the right targets is re-rolling all hits and wounds, +1 to wound against a character and +1 to charge, even after advancing).

 

Finally, don't be afraid to have some with chainswords to round off the points. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by XeonDragon

[duz_]

This is my VV squad I'm taking to a tournament this weekend. They're backed up by Shrike and a Chaplain.

I don't plan on going for top tables with my list. Will let you know how they go

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 215pts]: Jump Pack

2x Dual Lightning Claw, 2x Power sword + Storm shield, 2x Bolt pistol, Power fist, Sergeant: Storm shield + Thunder hammer

 

[XeonDragon]

@duz_

 

I think that is a very flexible layout, should do well against many targets and not suck against most :)

[duz_]

Well first test game with these VV on Monday

They easily wiped a 5 man intercessor squad and finished off a redemptor in my T1.

 

My opponent then easily obliterated them off the board in his subsequent shooting phase. Probably didn't help I forgot out CT bonuses (I was in cover too :facepalm: ) nor could I make an invul save to save my life. Meanwhile his 5 man VV squad with LC and SS (Sgt had a Relic pfist and SS) managed to survive way longer than they should of.

 

2W helps a bit, but you still have to keep them outta LoS for survivability.

[jpwyrm]

How about this for an all purpose squad :

 

5 x Vanguard Vets : jump packs

4 x Storm shields and Lightning Claws, Sergeant : Lightning Claw and Thunderhammer

157pts

 

Can slash infantry and still threatens harder targets with the hammer. Even better if played as WoR and BH Successor.

[duz_]

That does seem to be all the rage now

Sgt is an interesting choice but I can see that working too

[ONDIG]

6 vets dual wield plasma pistols

Sgt.dual lightning claws

12 shots of plasma will wreck most anything they drop next to.

Claws on sgt for the inevitable counter assault.

Pricey bit werth it.

2 sqds as mentioned w either incarnation of Shrike =goodtimes!

Short list

Shrike

Smash cpt

Scouts(claokssnipers)

Honor guard (2 stormbltr+powerswerd)

2 7 man sqds VV as previously mentioned ( jpacks and a meltabomb)

Around 50PL(900?pts)

This is of course from the index

Values and rules may vary for 9th edition

Edited November 21, 2021 by ONDIG

[ONDIG]

Honestly I'm not sure how this list fits if any legal FOC.

more believably a Vanguard detachment?

Shrke

Vanguard x2 and then a third elite unit (moar VV!)