Been out a long time. 1500 Wolves please help.

[tetsuhau]

So threw this list together, but really been out of the hobby for too long and I'm probably way off. Help.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [75 PL, 1,498pts, 8CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Deeds and Sagas [Reference]

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Specialist Detachment

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller, Boltgun, Force axe, Hunter, Jump Pack, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ

 

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf [7 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: Resolve of the Bear, Storm shield, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Pelt of Balewolf, Thunder hammer, Warlord, Warrior Born

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Blood Claws [8 PL, 118pts]

. 4x Blood Claw: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Blood Claw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frost Weapon, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

 

+ Elites +

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 160pts]: Incendium cannon

 

Murderfang [8 PL, 150pts]

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 160pts]

. Fenrisian great axe and Blizzard shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe, Storm bolter

 

Wolf Guard Terminators [9 PL, 190pts]

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Storm bolter, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Storm bolter, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Power fist, Storm bolter

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour with Heavy Weapon: Assault cannon, Power fist

. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Power fist, Storm bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry [7 PL, 195pts]

. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter

 

++ Total: [75 PL, 1,498pts, 8CP] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[temneb]

My personal take.

 

I'd go hunter on your warlord instead of warrior born. He'll be dictating fights on many occasions anyway. My assumption is that he'll be rolling with the thunder cav, and the fall back and charge is so valuable for both those units. Other option is to go full tank, give him bear and give your thunder cav a 6+++.

 

I've tried the Libby with armour of Russ, found that he didn't have enough punch to be jumping into combat even with the fights last. I run the instincts awoken, murderous hurricane combo. He just follows the pack, putting people into assualt doc, making targets fight last, then peels off when the shooting elements have and sits on objectives. I like the lt, for armour of Russ, am trying the judiciar in my new list, as I'm trying out successors and need the Wulven stone.

 

I've always got two units in assualt doc with the Wulven and strat and most times I have three.

 

I tried the shooty terminator, but found them meh. Shifted quickly to hammer/claw termis. And they are a massive part of my game, but I run a chappy with +1 to wound and pay the 2cp to get the +2 to charge power off, with the Wulven stone to help them get the charg off. They're the target of the Libby's assualt doc power. Usually use the exploding 5's from the Wulven stone on them or Wulfen.

 

I've found troops to be horrible, and have moved away from them. You can see my list posted yesterday.

 

I've not done it, but I'm trying it today, people are running wolves as successors. Born hero's and whirlwind of rage. +1 to hit on the charge, exoloding 6's in combat. The single exploding 6's have been doing work for me. And because I have so many units in assualt doc in the first couple of turns, double exploding 6's is very tempting.

 

Don't forget to stack the ignores modifiers strat on your hammer guys. Hitting with hammers on 2's is golden.

 

Every turn I spend that on my assualt hell blasters, then on any hammer units in combat.

 

Every turn upto two units go into assualt doc, one strat and one power.

 

Every turn I use the +1 to wound strat, hopefully have it in another unit from the Chaplin. Exploding 6's, claws wounding on 3s is great.

Edited November 12, 2021 by temneb

[tetsuhau]

Fair enough.

 

Do have the bear on my warlord, payed the CP for warrior of legend to get the Warrior born and bear combo. Chose it over the hunter because he'll be running with the other thunderwolves and they already get half of the effect for the trait (move advance charge) and I plan to stick my rune priest in with the intercessors and hopefully get them moving quicker. Librarian got the armor of Russ for the same reason, idea was 2 bubbles of melee units telling the other guys to wait their turn. Didn't see the instincts awoken there, that's awesome and is already changed. lol.

 

I have wulfen, they just seem to crumple too easily for my liking, maybe I'm missing something? I wanted a distraction unit (big reason that warsuit is in there) termies need to be dealt with, can drop on an objective, and have enough powerfists to hold something. Took them as a swiss army knife, but not married to the idea.

 

Digging the exploding 5's push though, with a successor chapter can that double down as exploding 5's? or double 6's single 5's?

 

I take troops, save the CP, I spent 4 pre game and I intend on murderfang wearing that rhino like a shirt until he gets down field. Maybe I should worry about this less? How is your CP spending rate?

 

What are your top tier strats you use?

 

Not trying to throw back your help BTW, thank you for replying, I just want to dive in a really learn, want to pitch my thoughts to show you where the ideas and plans came from. Will definitely be reworking my list a little after reading your reply. 

[temneb]

It's all good my friend. My advice is only suggestions.

 

I'm not at completely sure about the interaction between the Wulven stone and double exploding. Have been trying to think it through. In a perfect world, you have rerols to hit from Chaplin, roll to hit, keep all 6's, reroll all non 6's. Keep all 6's would be 2 extra, any 5's would be 1 extra.

 

I included a break down of the strats, just not the names.

The key one's I use are,

 

Keen senses 1cp, think that's it's name. For ignoring hit modifiers for a unit.

 

Bestial nature 1cp, put a unit in assualt doc.

 

Counter charge 1/0cp, 6" heroic.

 

Savage strike 1/2cp, +1 to wound in combat.

 

Relentless assualt 1cp, 6" pile in and consolidate.

 

Cloaked by the storm 2cp, -1 to hit 6" aura Libby.

[tetsuhau]

Fair enough.

Looked over your list, see you have a lo of low strength blender units (lots of lightning claws wolf guard, termies, TWC) do you ever find yourself wishing you had more oompf? or does the math pan out? And what is your deployment like? lot's of turn 2 drop ins?

[temneb]

Most of what I'm facing is MSU, the claw units are pretty damn good. You see them in many SM lists, they just get better for us. Hammers are anti durable unit, blade guard, terminator types. The maths is great with them, the speed is great for picking fights, they're good at grabbing objectives. They'll remove 18 guards men, 5 Primaris, 9 Wyches on the charge in assualt doc. If you really need them to do work add the +1 to wound strat. The big thing is everyone having a 4++. So they stick around. Claws are very good, especially with all the -1d rules around. I generally only reserve the terminators. They come in t2, after I've positioned the wolf priest to help the charge. I have at least 2 fights last options to help me mess with interrupts. Edited November 15, 2021 by temneb

[tetsuhau]

Alright did some shuffling. I find at 1500 I'm really cutting having to make some tough calls. How's this look?

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [75 PL, 1,498pts, 8CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Deeds and Sagas [Reference]

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Specialist Detachment

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller, Boltgun, Force axe, Hunter, Jump Pack, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ

 

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf [7 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: Resolve of the Bear, Storm shield, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Pelt of Balewolf, Thunder hammer, Warlord, Warrior Born

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Blood Claws [8 PL, 118pts]

. 4x Blood Claw: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Blood Claw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frost Weapon, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

 

+ Elites +

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 160pts]: Incendium cannon

 

Murderfang [8 PL, 150pts]

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 160pts]

. Fenrisian great axe and Blizzard shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe, Storm bolter

 

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 140pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry [7 PL, 195pts]

. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Razorback [6 PL, 130pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

++ Total: [75 PL, 1,498pts, 8CP] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

I could go to vanguard and save the assault intersessors and cut a walker and get a chaplain and another melee unit like termies in. Idk take a look.

[Karhedron]

Looks good but I am concerned you have no way to deal with tanks/monsters apart from hitting them with Hammers. I would be tempted to swap out the Invictor for something packing some Melta. 3 MM attacks bikes can keep up with the WL to benefit from his rerolls and will threaten even big targets.

 

You would need to drop the Invictor and trim off 20 points from somewhere else though.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

A swap I would consider in this list is a power fist Chaplain in place of the librarian. I kit mine out with a power fist, jump pack, beast slayer, and iron resolve (+1 wound 6+fnp), with mantra of Strength. I would do this especially if Grey Knights or Thousand Sons are prevalent as abhor the witch is an auto take against them and cannot be taken if you have psykers. I have found this chaplain to be much more reliable than the Librarian in my regular 1000 point games, and he is a real beat stick.

 

I think your anti tank is ok actually but a ranged punch might do you well. Instead of attack bikes I use outflanked Eradicators and tgey usually get tge job done. Wait for a hole to slip them in and blast away. But honestly you would be surprised how well tge melee units can do with the +1 to hit, and the +1 to wound strat

 

Edit, fat fingers

Edited November 16, 2021 by Rune Priest Jbickb

[tetsuhau]

Fair point. Don't have the models for bikes, I've got long fangs laying around and eradicators. I could dust off my old lascannon predator (love that thing) or built a redemptor with las?

[tetsuhau]

Interesting. So you favor the wolf priest over the rune priest? In melee I'd definitely agree but as far as utility goes the litanies make up for not being able to cast?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I honestly don't find much gain having one psyker, it may be tge prevalence of more psyker heavy armies where I play but I honestly see little benefit in them unless you take more than one. Can be denied, can perils themselves, and placement is trickier as you need to be careful of smite or buf targets but still want to protect the with character rule. They aren't bad I just tend to not get much use out of them the Chaplain does much more heavy lifting as a surgical assault piece. Just my experience in my meta so take as you will.

[tetsuhau]

No for sure thanks for sharing. Is there anything you can see that's an easy drop to try to squeak them both in?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Honestly if you want both you could pull the Razorback and swap the blood claws for a Squad of regular intercessors, tge regular intercessors make a great back field objective holder or you could give tge the assault version of the booter if you wanna run em around more.

[tetsuhau]

Problem with that is I plan to let murderfang hide behind the razorback. With no invuln he's a big target. I could definitely pull it back to a rhino and get half the points. Or should I ditch murderfang altogether? Could swap to another walker.

[temneb]

Isn't murderfang a character? I've not used him, but thought he was. I use the shield and axe dread. Solid list, I'm getting less play out of my troops. Libby is awesome for me, the fights last over watch denial, and extra unit in assualt doc really helps. Edited November 17, 2021 by temneb

[tetsuhau]

Ya he is So a good solid fast moving screen (the razorback) lets him run up free and clear. I could swap it for a rhino and get some points back, but I'd like to keep some kind of tank to use as a metal shirt for murderfang, or drop them both.

[tetsuhau]

New idea. 2 patrol detachments at the cost of 2 more cp. But it'd leave me at 6 cp. But it would let me drop one of the 2 troop slots gain back 95 pts, swap the razorback for a rhino and I'd have enough for a chaplain. Thoughts?

[tetsuhau]

Something like this?

 

 

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [40 PL, 748pts, 8CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Deeds and Sagas [Reference]

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Librarian [6 PL, 120pts, -1CP]: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 4. Instincts Awoken, Force sword, Hunter, Jump Pack, Storm bolter, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ

 

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf [7 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: Resolve of the Bear, Storm shield, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Pelt of Balewolf, Thunder hammer, Warlord, Warrior Born

 

+ Troops +

 

Blood Claws [8 PL, 118pts]

. 4x Blood Claw: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Blood Claw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frost Weapon, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

 

+ Elites +

 

Murderfang [8 PL, 150pts]

 

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 140pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter

 

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [35 PL, 750pts, -2CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

 

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [7 PL, 140pts]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Jump Pack, Power fist

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

+ Elites +

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 160pts]: Incendium cannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 160pts]

. Fenrisian great axe and Blizzard shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe, Storm bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry [7 PL, 195pts]

. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

++ Total: [75 PL, 1,498pts, 6CP] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I think it looks pretty good. I'd recommend running it 5 or so times with only minor tweaks before making too many changes. Especially versus a variety of armies. And remember 9e is lethal but mission oriented play tge mission as much as possible and you will likely do well. Looking forward to bat reps.

[temneb]

I like it, let me know how the invictor war suit goes. I've thought about them. You've got 4 early pressure units. 2 objective controllers.

[tetsuhau]

Will do have a 3 or 4 round tournament (depending on turnout) this weekend thanks to everyone who chimed in!

[tetsuhau]

So the results are in. Here's how I made out. Lots to go through so I'll go unit by unit, then list my changes.

 

Librarian/Chaplain - lumping these 2 because I have the same feeling about them both. They were very good when they worked, but were large targets and with that, priority for snipers and eliminated ASAP. 

 

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf  - ABSOLUTE UNIT. At one point I had an opponent say, "does he ever die?" Can be across the board in a turn and delete something solo. Group him with his escort and you have an opponent with a ruined day.

 

Blood Claws - Did exactly what they needed to, no better no worse. Tore through infantry.

 

Assault intercessors - Could not ask for a better forward holding objective squatter. 6" interventions for a cp? Yup. Also a steal at 95 points, I see them as baseline budget troops now.

 

Wolf guard - Great to sprint up the board, but found myself leaving them off board waiting for a bubble to open, then dropping them in for an instantly worried opponent. 

 

Warsuit - round 1 bully unit. Kept all eyes off of everything except him. Didn't give the opponent an opportunity to think about what to shoot, made the decision for them. Turn 1 charge. 

 

Ven Dread - Heavy hitting and survivable, dual weapon profile kept his swinging, tanks and infantry alike.

 

Murderfang - This guy does work, hide him behind a rhino and as long as he gets across, he digs in like a tick and deletes section of enemy line. If he is caught out in the open though he WILL disappear. 

 

Thunderwolf Cav - Escort for my wolf lord, played the same part. Ripped across the board, got in everyone's face and made them like they never existed. 

 

Things I learned

 

I need some cyber wolves in here. This is a fact, backfield objectives exist and leaving too many points back there is a waste, especially at this point level.

 

I need some ranged firepower. Not so I have something shooting, or death from a range. Another cyber wolf COULD work, but people kicking your back door in sucks, having a ranged dread back there with some melee capability would make them think twice, and button up a 9" radius bubble wall really well.

 

Aim your charging units at a target rich environment. Had a target move, leaving my dreadnaught out in the open at the end of turn 2 and he wasn't there turn 3.

 

Getting rid of either the Librarian or Chaplain at this point mark might be a decent idea. They are 2 4 wound models and 15-20% of the points. They are priority targets, and we never WANT them to get left out, but even if they don't, snipers exist.

 

Also, don't charge tank ace manticores in cover while they have cp to spend. Can't stress this one enough.

[Karhedron]

There are various upgrades for Chaplains and Librarians to keep them alive a bit longer. Terminator armour will provide either with +1W, a 2+ save and Teleport Attack. It will also give the Libby a 5++ which he currently lacks. Upgrading either to the Primaris version will net you +1W and +1A for just a few points, always worthwhile unless they need to go in a Transport. Armour Indomitus Relic is worth a look as it gives a Character (even Primaris) another +1W, a 2+ save and a once-per-game 3++.

 

One unit that might appeal to you is the Primaris Chaplain on Bike. He is like a regular Chaplain but way better. He has T5, 7 Wounds and enough speed to outrun even your Thunderwolves if needed.

[tetsuhau]

Both units had an invuln just got some bad rolls and some surprise ambushes. They just didn't make their points. I've been looking at the chaplain on bike, maybe something to look at in the future. any suggestions for some long range backfield fire power? Redemptor?