Marine Air Cav?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just curious any one here has run a stormraven heavy list transporting their marines?

 

Don’t have the bank to get anymore SRs but just curious how such a list runs now or has played in the past.

[CrystalSeer]

I did it in the past when vehicle rules weren't so iffy. Worked well then.

 

Issue now is, you have to start them on the table, and if you go second you run a high risk of losing one or more before they even move.

 

Cost is really high given the risk.

[Dark Shepherd]

Changes to board size and new terrain rules hit them hard, and their points dont reflect this

 

Plus dang Eldar ruined stacking negative modifiers to hit for everyone

[BloodyB]

In a semicompetitive setting this can be very fun. Me and a friend had a game where I fielded 3 SRs with 2 tac squads and a sternguard squad 3 dreads and a LT. Had some good solid fun and played units I don't use often enough. On our 6'x4' board, his Orks were good fun to play against, and it was a very thematic battle.

 

Competitive gameplay is completely different. While moving a dozen marines and a dreadnought up the field fast is inarguably a powerful tool, especially when you have the firepower of an SR as well, the (relative) fragility of the SR is quite a hump to overcome. Toughness 7 and 14 wounds isn't exactly brittle, but the investment required to make the most of this vehicle ensures that it will draw every las shot, bolt round and shuriken volley available to your foes forces.

 

A shame, because I really loved this model since 5th edition, and I have no shortage of fond memories of their use. My first Stormraven secured me victory in a 2000pt local tourney, and my first apocalypse game saw me use three of these gunships and a demi-company to mangle a never-ending swarm of Tyranids, with only a little help from the older players vast collections of Baneblade variants.

 

A shame that currently, the Stormraven is not in a good place competitively.

[Brother Kraskor]

I wonder if they will make a sleeker, cheaper flying transport for Primaris that is also reasonably durable/harder to hit. Less of an aerial Repulsor and more of an aerial Impulsor, but with 10 capacity.

[Dark Shepherd]

I wonder if they will make a sleeker, cheaper flying transport for Primaris that is also reasonably durable/harder to hit. Less of an aerial Repulsor and more of an aerial Impulsor, but with 10 capacity.

That would be a great idea and fit in with the policy of Primaris complementing existing marine line/not being a direct replacement which they have kind of followed

 

At the very least make the 16 frag launchers and stubbers optional

 

Give it something like an assault drop rule, eg move and disembark same turn

[Galron]

The way I like fielding marines, that would be awesome. But to be useful, it couldnt cost 200+ points. It needs to be a transport, not a gunship. Obviously it would be a multi-kit so you would have a gun ship version and a transport version, maybe even a third version since GW seems to like cramming as many kits into one as it can.

[BloodyB]

The way I like fielding marines, that would be awesome. But to be useful, it couldnt cost 200+ points. It needs to be a transport, not a gunship. Obviously it would be a multi-kit so you would have a gun ship version and a transport version, maybe even a third version since GW seems to like cramming as many kits into one as it can.

A transport, a gunship and either a fighter or bomber? That could be good. If they gave us a transport that could bring Primaris from the air, they might actually be able to make Reivers good by making the fin thingamabobs do something useful. Like disembark from the flier and charge, for example.

 

They need to be looking at the Stormtalon minus some of the guns. A couple of Ironhail heavy stubbers or fragstorm launchers is plenty for this bird, because it has to be cheap enouh to justify taking as a taxi. Of course, GW won't be able to resist giving it some sort of Plasma Immolator, that can destroy a whole Leman Russ squadron. Power creep is like a nervous twitch for Geedubs at this point.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

How about a load out of 2 hvy bolters(or las talons) and an optional dorsal twin hvy stubber turret?

 

And transport capacity of 10, disembark and advance same turn?

 

T8 W15 Sv3+

 

And a reduce damage by 1 rule

 

Sound good?

Edited November 18, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Dracos]

With the restriction of 2 on the Aircraft keyword, they need to bring the Fly keyword back for Impulsors. Increasing the transport capability to 10 would be nice also but that ship has likely sailed.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

With the restriction of 2 on the Aircraft keyword, they need to bring the Fly keyword back for Impulsors. Increasing the transport capability to 10 would be nice also but that ship has likely sailed.

i thought it was 3

 

Or they could move the SR to dedicated transport

Edited November 27, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It's 2.

 

Dedicated transport would be a good fix if they made it an exception so guard could run their air cav lists. That said you only get 2 right now regardless of slot

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It's 2.

 

Dedicated transport would be a good fix if they made it an exception so guard could run their air cav lists. That said you only get 2 right now regardless of slot

nvm Edited November 28, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It's 2.

 

Dedicated transport would be a good fix if they made it an exception so guard could run their air cav lists. That said you only get 2 right now regardless of slot

then simply remove the aircraft key word when moving them to dedicated transport. Problem solved

[Dracos]

It would be a simple fix but just because they have transport ability doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the same interaction issues as other Aircraft.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It would be a simple fix but just because they have transport ability doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the same interaction issues as other Aircraft.

their points are so high you can’t really effectively spam them like with some of the other fliers.

 

base SR is nearly 3x the points of a base dakkajet for example.

3 SRs is nearly 900pts

Edited November 29, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Dracos]

But you can’t make exceptions for universal rules (obviously they could) without other factions crying foul about space marines. We really don’t need that publicity considering most of us are lucky to be mid tier at the moment if that. Not to mention if the point cost is the issue should you really be taking more than two anyway ?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

But you can’t make exceptions for universal rules (obviously they could) without other factions crying foul about space marines. We really don’t need that publicity considering most of us are lucky to be mid tier at the moment if that. Not to mention if the point cost is the issue should you really be taking more than two anyway ?

if they have over priced transport flying machines the same treatment can be given to them too

[Dark Shepherd]

Make aircraft (in this case) exclude or exception for models with a transport capacity of 10 or more?

[Galron]

But you can’t make exceptions for universal rules (obviously they could) without other factions crying foul about space marines. We really don’t need that publicity considering most of us are lucky to be mid tier at the moment if that. Not to mention if the point cost is the issue should you really be taking more than two anyway ?

 On the contrary, we are in the second half or just about to be there of 9th edition, This is when power creep typically goes into overdrive and you start to see each new codex having exceptions to universal rules. They have been doing this since 3rd edition. I dont remember 2nd being so bad on power creep as every army had some insane combos with universal combat gear.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

It's 2.

 

Dedicated transport would be a good fix if they made it an exception so guard could run their air cav lists. That said you only get 2 right now regardless of slot

then simply remove the aircraft key word when moving them to dedicated transport. Problem solved

 

 

I think simply removing the aircraft keyword would have some unintended consequences. The biggest one would be that the Storm Raven would retain all the benefits of being a flyer while now benefiting from obscuring terrain. With most armies being limited to two flyers this would be a massive power boost. The second big issue would be that without the aircraft keyword models wouldn't be able to move over its base which has been an issue before, and without the aircraft keyword they could hold the objective while blocking it. 

 

I play space wolves so I'm far from an expert on storm ravens but I think they'd become top tier if more changes weren't made.

 

 

But you can’t make exceptions for universal rules (obviously they could) without other factions crying foul about space marines. We really don’t need that publicity considering most of us are lucky to be mid tier at the moment if that. Not to mention if the point cost is the issue should you really be taking more than two anyway ?

 On the contrary, we are in the second half or just about to be there of 9th edition, This is when power creep typically goes into overdrive and you start to see each new codex having exceptions to universal rules. They have been doing this since 3rd edition. I dont remember 2nd being so bad on power creep as every army had some insane combos with universal combat gear.

 

 

I think Dracos brings up a good point, that with how expensive Storm Ravens are that you probably don't need more than two to make a themed list. That said I think a better way to approach armies that rely on flyers would be making armies of renown for each fraction effected. Elysian Guard, and Crons are the two that jump to my mind but you could make one for marines. 

 

Gairon - I think the balance data slate is an attempt to curb the late edition power creep. Tau and CWE traditionally have both had really strong flyer lists. GW wants to emphasize tournaments more than they ever have, and if they want to do so power creep is something that they will have to look at.  

[Dracos]

The difference in response time to power creep is quantum levels shorter than I the past also. We cant keep looking back to the practices from 3rd. 4th, 5th editions. There’s a new sheriff in town. The days of a faction or units in it being OP isn’t like it use to be. It might take two or three swings of the nerf bat, sorry Iron Hands, but GW has been getting better each year. COVID out a road bump up but even that is in the rear View mirror as we pick up speed again at Gw sponsored tournaments.

 

Jorin said it best. It’s easy for us to point out things we dont like or fit our narrative. Doesn’t mean they’re good for the health of the game.

 

 

edit: ungodly spelling errors.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dracos

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

For what it's worth Inquisitor_Lensoven I'd let opponents run 3 Storm Ravens in pickup games. I think most players would, they just wouldn't want to open the door to the 6 admech/Ork flyer list. House ruled 40k pretty much is always the best 40k. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

For what it's worth Inquisitor_Lensoven I'd let opponents run 3 Storm Ravens in pickup games. I think most players would, they just wouldn't want to open the door to the 6 admech/Ork flyer list. House ruled 40k pretty much is always the best 40k.

i think the aircraft limit was an over correction. Double the cost of the offending aircraft in points, and that pretty much takes care of the issue. Instead of 6 aircraft being 25-33% of your points in a 2k game they become 55%+ of your points in a 2k game.

 

And then make sure all future aircraft are pointed correctly

Edited November 30, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Geedub had to curb flyers in eighth edition - it’s nothing new.