Marine Air Cav?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

For what it's worth Inquisitor_Lensoven I'd let opponents run 3 Storm Ravens in pickup games. I think most players would, they just wouldn't want to open the door to the 6 admech/Ork flyer list. House ruled 40k pretty much is always the best 40k.

i think the aircraft limit was an over correction. Double the cost of the offending aircraft in points, and that pretty much takes care of the issue. Instead of 6 aircraft being 25-33% of your points in a 2k game they become 55%+ of your points in a 2k game.

 

And then make sure all future aircraft are pointed correctly

 

 

I really think the main reason they didn't just point them in to oblivion is that they weren't positive it would work. Admech had a crazy high goes first win rate. Spending a premium in points to keep that alpha strike would probably be worth it to competitive players. More so because some armies just can't deal with the flyers even if they get first turn.

 

If isn't worth it, then admech become a tier 2 army that probably have brutal splits between when they go first or second. GW likes to pretend that going first isn't a big advantage because they shove a ton of terrain on their tables and ignore other tournaments results. That said it doesn't really reflect the play experience for a lot of us, and I think having an army that relies on going first to win would be pretty big black eye for them.

 

I really think more armies of renown that let you break some of these rules and make some trades to have access to more flyers makes more sense from a competitive stand point. Granted I'd prefer a more restrictive FOC because it's just too easy to flood the board with the super killy stuff but that would be a 10th edition hope. 

[Malakithe]

Most people cant even justify bringing an Impulsor in their lists cuz it costs too much let alone a flying transport

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Most people cant even justify bringing an Impulsor in their lists cuz it costs too much let alone a flying transport

difference between the two is one has :cuss fire power and :cuss transport capacity, while the other has awesome fire power and awesome transport capacity.

SR is still way too over priced though

[Malakithe]

All transports in the game are overcosted tbh

[MegaVolt87]

All transports in the game are overcosted tbh

 

Older editions you didn't have to cut a lot of infantry to make a mechanized force. The points are now too oppressive, its better to take more bodies and walk up instead. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Progressive objectives really increased the value of transports. I don't think they could be as cheap as they were in the past, and if I'm being honest, I felt like I had to run a mechanized army in the past. There were just too many benefits for running them. So hopefully they can find that balancing point, where it's a good decision but not a fun tax. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Progressive objectives really increased the value of transports. I don't think they could be as cheap as they were in the past, and if I'm being honest, I felt like I had to run a mechanized army in the past. There were just too many benefits for running them. So hopefully they can find that balancing point, where it's a good decision but not a fun tax.

i think a 10-15% price drop for the smaller transports would do it, maybe a 20% decrease for the SR and LRs

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

10-15% for the light transports and 20% for the elite ones is probably about right. Really curious to see how marines fare in the new chapter approved points wise. 

[Dark Shepherd]

10-15% for the light transports and 20% for the elite ones is probably about right. Really curious to see how marines fare in the new chapter approved points wise.

Land Raiders got 20 point drop in last one so cant see more than that again at best.

Impulsors need one too, balanced out by slight nerfs to small squads in mission changes and Bladeguard being overdue an increase

[Dracos]

Not sure we should see any increases in the main Codex. Maybe Redemptors and Vanguard Vets, but those wouldn’t be as needed if Impulsors were priced better to open up melee options. Not like Any of the marine armies are running top 5 consistently.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Honestly Dracos it really depends on how aggressive they are with chapter approved. There were some pretty major changes made to admech (and some weird choices with DE), if they tone down a lot of stuff than Marines may need to be looked at. If we've seen most of the nerfs than yeah nothing in the marine codex should be touched. I could see MM taking a bit of hit game wide, but we'll have to wait and see what they do.

[MegaVolt87]

Progressive objectives really increased the value of transports. I don't think they could be as cheap as they were in the past, and if I'm being honest, I felt like I had to run a mechanized army in the past. There were just too many benefits for running them. So hopefully they can find that balancing point, where it's a good decision but not a fun tax. 

 

Its swung too far the other way, now its more mandatory to be on foot if you want a respectable model count. Phobos units, deep strikers and outflanking infantry are a better buy than transport options for loyalists. Taking those units to go up front, then everything else you take has arrived on time just by walking to back them up. 

[Dracos]

I understand Jorin’s reluctance for a step back to the Rhino for Free days, but right now Marines are low to mid mid-tier at best. The Flagship Faction should be better than this. Unless everyone enjoys seeing nothing beside Vanguard Vets and Redemptors on the table we need an internal balance.

 

Not so much it swings back to vroom vroom all the time, because we are not Orks … or Druhkari. Something that allows for the fielding or Assault Intercessors that actually assault, instead of being the cheapest ObSec is needed. Something that delivers Aggressors and makes them viable choice again is needed. etc etc. otherwise they just get shot off the table T1 half the time.

 

For their current point cost, Impulsors just aren’t that hard to kill after the change in their shields. Losing the Fly keyword pretty much stuck a fork in them. Unless there is a Primaris Drop Pod in the works, and I don’t see anyone holding their breath on that one, I strongly feel the Impulsor is the key to refreshing the Primaris line.

 

Either up the Impulsors transport capacity (and Fly would be nice for a Cav theme) or a deep cut in point cost is needed.

 

On a more faction selfish note … the Raven Guard use to have a vehicle that would operate much like this called … the Whispercutter.

 

:D

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

Progressive objectives really increased the value of transports. I don't think they could be as cheap as they were in the past, and if I'm being honest, I felt like I had to run a mechanized army in the past. There were just too many benefits for running them. So hopefully they can find that balancing point, where it's a good decision but not a fun tax. 

 

Its swung too far the other way, now its more mandatory to be on foot if you want a respectable model count. Phobos units, deep strikers and outflanking infantry are a better buy than transport options for loyalists. Taking those units to go up front, then everything else you take has arrived on time just by walking to back them up. 

 

   

I don't know if its mandatory to take a bunch of foot units or if there just aren't enough good units that benefit enough from one. From competitive lists the only units you see in transports for marines are BGV in implusors, and Devs in pods. Most of the other popular marine choices just don't really gain much if anything from being in one. I'm not sure if that's because the transports are bad or if it's because things like Sternguard stink. If it were up to me, they'd drop another 10-15% but some of the units that don't see play would as well. If that change isn't enough lower them again but I'm wary of them getting too cheap. I don't want to see an all primaris army taking 35 point rhinos to hold objectives. Make no mistake if they were that cheap people would run them solely for that purpose.

 

I understand Jorin’s reluctance for a step back to the Rhino for Free days, but right now Marines are low to mid mid-tier at best. The Flagship Faction should be better than this. Unless everyone enjoys seeing nothing beside Vanguard Vets and Redemptors on the table we need an internal balance.

 

Not so much it swings back to vroom vroom all the time, because we are not Orks … or Druhkari. Something that allows for the fielding or Assault Intercessors that actually assault, instead of being the cheapest ObSec is needed. Something that delivers Aggressors and makes them viable choice again is needed. etc etc. otherwise they just get shot off the table T1 half the time.

 

For their current point cost, Impulsors just aren’t that hard to kill after the change in their shields. Losing the Fly keyword pretty much stuck a fork in them. Unless there is a Primaris Drop Pod in the works, and I don’t see anyone holding their breath on that one, I strongly feel the Impulsor is the key to refreshing the Primaris line.

 

Either up the Impulsors transport capacity (and Fly would be nice for a Cav theme) or a deep cut in point cost is needed.

 

On a more faction selfish note … the Raven Guard use to have a vehicle that would operate much like this called … the Whispercutter.

 

 

I think from the way Implusors are described the fly rule didn't make sense. That said, I think their base cost should drop a fair bit, and the shield upgrade should go back to 4++ and be more expensive. 

 

I hope you do get a Whispercutter.