Oll Persson working on Paleolithic Lascaux, Altamira and Rouffignac cave paintings

[Just123456]

What would you all think of a story where Oll Persson works on a lot of the Paleolithic Les Eyzies cave art with a man named Girausha, Girausha's girlfriend, his best friend and brother and one day a bear mauled and slaughtered Giraud and Oll Persson paid his respects before leaving? Oll Persson migrated from Iraq in the Middle East to Europe when his native group banished him after they realized he did not grow old and was unable to die.

 

What can I do to improve the story?I

 

And I can also write Oll Persson making the Lascaux, Altamira and Rouffignac cave paintings, not just one cave site with Paleolithic paintings. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Just123456
Fixing words

[Mazer Rackham]

I think the best thing to do to improve it, is to make it more 40k(ish) relevant.  At the moment we have a very tenuous link to the setting, which could serve to be strengthened.  You could easily do this by altering it to make the cave paintings on a world from Oll's travels amongst the stars, and changing the bear to some kind of alien beast, perhaps a small clutch of Gretchin or something.

 

You could even tie this in to Dan Abnett's Horus Rising, where the map of Old Terra found by the Luna Wolves was left by Oll and his buddies before he cleared out.  You could then put as much or as little of your own story over this as you liked.

 

If you don't want to do that, you're going to have to tie the story in to some other point during the time of Old Earth, or Old Night (etc) to keep it close to board approved content.

[Just123456]

Warhammer as a setting is for entertainment. As is every other fictional setting. That is the same with my story.

 

And humans of the Upper Paleolithic were as intelligent as we are and basically were us, especially given the cave art and figurines they had.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Just123456

[Brother Lunkhead]

However much I like Oll (at least as a character, but not so much all of his storylines in the HH), I think you are skating on thin ice by using a very active character as the center of your story ideas. You run a huge risk of making many of your story ideas irrelevant or simply invalid). Now, if you're hellbent to go with it anyway, then do so. I also think that by placing Oll at the center of or witness to just about everything since the beginning of time will give him a Mary Sue quality that very very few people are going to appreciate.

 

I'm not trying to knock the wind out of your sails here, just pointing out some barriers you are probably going to be facing.

[Just123456]

However much I like Oll (at least as a character, but not so much all of his storylines in the HH), I think you are skating on thin ice by using a very active character as the center of your story ideas. You run a huge risk of making many of your story ideas irrelevant or simply invalid). Now, if you're hellbent to go with it anyway, then do so. I also think that by placing Oll at the center of or witness to just about everything since the beginning of time will give him a Mary Sue quality that very very few people are going to appreciate.

 

I'm not trying to knock the wind out of your sails here, just pointing out some barriers you are probably going to be facing.

What would you think of the Eldar training Oll Persson in their martial arts and arts of war? Eldar Harlequins can speed blitz hundreds of elite Imperial soldiers with a sword SOLO as the Throneworld novel shows and Solitaires would casually rip apart almost every Astartes and almost every Imperial warrior. Why would they train a human? The Eldar chose to make an exception since Oll Persson is a Perpetual and the oldest Perpetual. Edited November 30, 2021 by Just123456

[Just123456]

And I won't have Oll Persson at the center of everything in human history. He would not know about Abraham Lincoln and George Washington since he was not in America at the time. And Oll Persson would not know Caesar but did serve in the Roman military and did not know Alexander of Macedonia. I would have Oll Persson mostly not do anything notable in history, but do a few remarkable things in the Upper Paleolithic. Edited December 1, 2021 by Just123456

[Brother Tyler]

In my mind, this concept would work best as a flashback, juxtaposing some event set during the "modern" WH40K era (Great Crusade and later) with something similar that happened in the distant past. Or perhaps Oll Persson revisits the cave upon one of his returns to Terra and recalls the events you describe.

Realistically, Oll Persson would know about any suitably famous historical person. He might not have actually met most, but he would at least be aware of them and their impact on history.

I wouldn't try to create any significant additions to his lore, especially something like being trained in Aeldari combat methods.

[Just123456]

I am sorry for commenting in a dead thread. 

 

Oll Persson could have created the Lascaux, Altamira and Rouffignac cave paintings during his youth in the Upper Paleolithic. What do you think? 

 

And you are right that Oll Persson probably meet most famous historical figures, which is what I meant to say. I should have been clear on that. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Just123456

[Brother Tyler]

If the information at Lexicanum is correct and Ollanius Persson was born around 15,000 B.C. in Nineveh (which is in modern day Iraq), and current estimates about the three cave complexes that you named are correct, then he wouldn't have been involved in the Lascaux caves (Wikipedia cites the age of the paintings at around 17,000 years ago - 15,000 B.C., while the Bradshaw Foundation cites the age of the paintings to be "up to" 20,000 years ago). Rouffignac (and Villars) would be unlikely under Wikipedia dating (Wikipedia: cave paintings dating back to the Upper Paleolithic - 40,000-35,000 years old), but possible under Bradshaw dating (Bradshaw: 13,000 years old - 11,000 B.C.). Altamira would be possible under the larger dates of both Wikipedia and Bradshaw (Wikipedia: 16,590-14,000 years ago - 14,590-12,000 B.C.) (Bradshaw: 16,500-13,000 years ago - 14,500-11,000 B.C.) but not the earlier Gravettian dates given by Bradshaw (22,000 years ago - 20,000 B.C.). Even with the correspondences allowed by dates, however, one would have to find some rationale for someone born in Nineveh traveling to France and/or Spain to create art in a style that is different from that of his native land. Personal artistic styles and interpretation are always valid explanations, of course. How did he get from Nineveh to Western Europe, however? And when did he move/migrate from the Middle East to Western Europe? How long did it take him to get to Western Europe? What did he do in the intervening time?

 

Note that Nineveh didn't exist until about 6,000 B.C. (according to Wikipedia), pre-dating Ollanius Persson's possible birth date, so attributions of him being born there are either factually incorrect or (more likely) simply refer to that area and list Nineveh for reference. Or perhaps they are referring to older settlements in that area prior to the great city.

 

Realistically, the question really becomes: What value does this idea contribute to the history and personality of Ollanius Persson given what we already know about him? Does this add anything meaningful to either Ollanius Persson or the historical narrative of the setting?

 

If you follow through with this idea, I suggest having Ollanius Persson be involved in only one of the cave settings you named, and then only as one of many participants and not as the leader. And I repeat my suggestion to make this portion of the story a flashback, something that he recalls as he's going through something in the "modern" setting (and I'll extend that back through the Age of Strife, though I think it would be better to focus on the Unification Wars and later, especially the Great Crusade).

[Just123456]

4 hours ago, Brother Tyler said:

If the information at Lexicanum is correct and Ollanius Persson was born around 15,000 B.C. in Nineveh (which is in modern day Iraq), and current estimates about the three cave complexes that you named are correct, then he wouldn't have been involved in the Lascaux caves (Wikipedia cites the age of the paintings at around 17,000 years ago - 15,000 B.C., while the Bradshaw Foundation cites the age of the paintings to be "up to" 20,000 years ago). Rouffignac (and Villars) would be unlikely under Wikipedia dating (Wikipedia: cave paintings dating back to the Upper Paleolithic - 40,000-35,000 years old), but possible under Bradshaw dating (Bradshaw: 13,000 years old - 11,000 B.C.). Altamira would be possible under the larger dates of both Wikipedia and Bradshaw (Wikipedia: 16,590-14,000 years ago - 14,590-12,000 B.C.) (Bradshaw: 16,500-13,000 years ago - 14,500-11,000 B.C.) but not the earlier Gravettian dates given by Bradshaw (22,000 years ago - 20,000 B.C.). Even with the correspondences allowed by dates, however, one would have to find some rationale for someone born in Nineveh traveling to France and/or Spain to create art in a style that is different from that of his native land. Personal artistic styles and interpretation are always valid explanations, of course. How did he get from Nineveh to Western Europe, however? And when did he move/migrate from the Middle East to Western Europe? How long did it take him to get to Western Europe? What did he do in the intervening time?

 

Note that Nineveh didn't exist until about 6,000 B.C. (according to Wikipedia), pre-dating Ollanius Persson's possible birth date, so attributions of him being born there are either factually incorrect or (more likely) simply refer to that area and list Nineveh for reference. Or perhaps they are referring to older settlements in that area prior to the great city.

 

Realistically, the question really becomes: What value does this idea contribute to the history and personality of Ollanius Persson given what we already know about him? Does this add anything meaningful to either Ollanius Persson or the historical narrative of the setting?

 

If you follow through with this idea, I suggest having Ollanius Persson be involved in only one of the cave settings you named, and then only as one of many participants and not as the leader. And I repeat my suggestion to make this portion of the story a flashback, something that he recalls as he's going through something in the "modern" setting (and I'll extend that back through the Age of Strife, though I think it would be better to focus on the Unification Wars and later, especially the Great Crusade).

 

 

The information at Lexicanum most certainly is correct. Oll Persson is 45,000 years old and the oldest Perpetual as the 'Perpetual' audio book and 'Saturnine' novel said, which places Oll Persson being born in the Upper Paleolithic. And 'Saturnine'  also said the Perpetuals have been appearing the last 45,000 years at bare minimum. 

 

And Lexicanum names those books as the books which the age came from. 

 

Lexicanum is also strictly moderated. 

 

Oll Persson said he was born in Nineveh in the 'Unmarked' short story. But he was depicted as younger in that story. 

And Oll Persson being born in 15,000 BC is an absolute bare minimum date, instead of a precise one. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Just123456

[Brother Tyler]

You are fixated on the least important part of my post, and you have misinterpreted that portion, to boot. I only used the "If the information on Lexicanum is correct" portion as a disclaimer because I have not read the books and lack the firsthand knowledge. Since the information was found at Lexicanum, I cited that site. Though the site is strictly moderated, it has been known to have incorrect or skewed information based on the biases and misinterpretations of both moderators and contributors. I wasn't in any way claiming that the information is incorrect, but if it is, or if it is misrepresented or incomplete, the disclaimer is there to make it clear that I'm not asserting the information in an authoritive manner. More importantly, if someone that has access to the books in question or other books with additional/different information provides other information, I'm open to their input/corrections.

 

You appear to have ignored the really important parts of my reply. I'll re-post it and highlight them:

 

(from my first reply)

In my mind, this concept would work best as a flashback, juxtaposing some event set during the "modern" WH40K era (Great Crusade and later) with something similar that happened in the distant past. Or perhaps Oll Persson revisits the cave upon one of his returns to Terra and recalls the events you describe.

 

(from my second reply)

What value does this idea [placing Ollanius Persson in one or more of the caves with Paleolithic art] contribute to the history and personality of Ollanius Persson given what we already know about him? Does this add anything meaningful to either Ollanius Persson or the historical narrative of the setting?

 

I saw your reply shortly after you posted it and didn't feel it necessary to reply to it. However, since you later decided that you needed to draw my attention to it via a PM, I'll respond in the interest of satisfying your need for feedback. Ultimately, you're going to do what you want to do and none of us can stop you, nor should we try. However, since you've asked for people's feedback, we're providing feedback that we hope is helpful (I know for certain that my feedback is intended to be helpful, and knowing the others that have provided feedback, I'm confident that their feedback is also provided with honest intent). You don't have to like/agree with/follow the advice given by others, but if you ask for feedback, you should at least consider what others have to say - otherwise there is no point in asking for feedback.

[Just123456]

34 minutes ago, Brother Tyler said:

You are fixated on the least important part of my post, and you have misinterpreted that portion, to boot. I only used the "If the information on Lexicanum is correct" portion as a disclaimer because I have not read the books and lack the firsthand knowledge. Since the information was found at Lexicanum, I cited that site. Though the site is strictly moderated, it has been known to have incorrect or skewed information based on the biases and misinterpretations of both moderators and contributors. I wasn't in any way claiming that the information is incorrect, but if it is, or if it is misrepresented or incomplete, the disclaimer is there to make it clear that I'm not asserting the information in an authoritive manner. More importantly, if someone that has access to the books in question or other books with additional/different information provides other information, I'm open to their input/corrections.

 

You appear to have ignored the really important parts of my reply. I'll re-post it and highlight them:

 

(from my first reply)

In my mind, this concept would work best as a flashback, juxtaposing some event set during the "modern" WH40K era (Great Crusade and later) with something similar that happened in the distant past. Or perhaps Oll Persson revisits the cave upon one of his returns to Terra and recalls the events you describe.

 

(from my second reply)

What value does this idea [placing Ollanius Persson in one or more of the caves with Paleolithic art] contribute to the history and personality of Ollanius Persson given what we already know about him? Does this add anything meaningful to either Ollanius Persson or the historical narrative of the setting?

 

I saw your reply shortly after you posted it and didn't feel it necessary to reply to it. However, since you later decided that you needed to draw my attention to it via a PM, I'll respond in the interest of satisfying your need for feedback. Ultimately, you're going to do what you want to do and none of us can stop you, nor should we try. However, since you've asked for people's feedback, we're providing feedback that we hope is helpful (I know for certain that my feedback is intended to be helpful, and knowing the others that have provided feedback, I'm confident that their feedback is also provided with honest intent). You don't have to like/agree with/follow the advice given by others, but if you ask for feedback, you should at least consider what others have to say - otherwise there is no point in asking for feedback.

I am sorry if I came off as patronizing. That was not my intention. 

 

Now, onto the actual subject: Oll Persson could have possibly painted Lascaux, Altamira or Rouffignac. But websites sometimes have contradictory information on the dating of cave paintings, so its hard to know the precise date. 

 

I'd say Oll Persson is more likely to have painted the Altamira and Rouffignac art than Lascaux. 

 

Can you give me feedback on my Fanfiction for Damon Prytanis? I genuinely want to see any flaws in my fanfiction if there are any, what I can to to improve the fanfiction story, and will be genuinely open to criticism for that story as it is just a rough draft and sketch after all. But even if it was not a rough draft then I would still want feedback on how I could improve the story. 

I hope it's alright to ask. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Just123456