How to make veteran intercessors interesting?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So they come in the two standard flavors of intercessors but just some better slightly better stats.

 

So tactical

I think they should be able to take at least one legitimate ranged special weapon.

Assault

Sergeant should be able to dial melee weapons

Two other models should be able to take a special melee weapon.

 

Is what I’m thinking.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Lord_Ikka]

Well, one thing that would help would to give them the Assault Intercessor keyword, that way they can use the Honour the Chapter strat. Other than that, it doesn't seem that GW really knows what Vet Intercessors should do; they are trying to be the Sternguard/Vanguard vets of the Primaris units, but fall pretty far short of reaching that goal, especially the bolt rifle Intercessors.

 

Having +1 A and +1 Ld for only 2 points per marine is pretty great as is- I don't see a reason to not take your Assault Intercessors as Vets unless you run into slot crunch or you need ObSec units. For an all-Primaris army, I think Veteran (Assault) Intercessors have a place as a chaff killing melee unit. Run them up a flank either in an Impulsor or just on foot and Advancing, let them slam into the enemy's frontline and get stuck in. They're a fairly cheap distraction unit that will put out a lot of attacks and hopefully survive for a couple of turns to mess with the enemy. For a SM army that has both Firstborn and Primaris, they're not so useful when you can get Vanguard vets who do the same thing but faster and better. Giving them the option for a couple extra thunderhammers/powerfists/swords seems perfectly fine and wouldn't screw up balance too much. 

 

As far as bolt rifle armed Vet Intercessors go, I'm fairly stumped. Giving them the option for a Heavy Intercessor, Eradicator, or Hellblaster weapon won't happen- GW has been pretty stuck on making Primaris weaponry (especially those not in Gravis armor) all uniform in a squad. Maybe an in-built ability like the Eradicator's Total Annihilation where you can shoot twice at the same enemy? Pumping out some extra shots and then being able to charge (even without meaningful melee weapons) with 4 attacks each could help out a bit.  

Edited November 21, 2021 by Lord_Ikka

[Helias_Tancred]

I made a combat squad of assault intercessors as a veteran squad. Good use of BA specific bits, etc... but I have yet to use them in a game.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It's just a theory but I think veteran intercessors are meant to be a place holder. Sword brethren basically have the fixes that the OP suggested so I could see each chapter getting a similar unit and then getting rid of the unit entry. It wouldn't be hard to convert existing squads and I think they'd get cool rules to soften the blow.

[Schlitzaf]

There are 2 and a half “Veteranized” Cessors that are chapter specific:

DeathCompany Cessors. Essentially VetCessors w/o Sgt. And some memetic wargear options (a weird hybrid of Assault and RegCessor).

BT SwordBros. Vet (Assault) Cessors w/o Sgt and CoolMelee + Pistols.

 

Each of them has a “chapter” rule: SBros ignore Passions. And DC Cessors are well DC. They lose dbl shoot and sgt. So stage to fix to VetCessor would be dbl fight.

 

The 0.5 is Hounds of Morkai. But they are more upgraded Reivars. But same principle.

[Medicinal Carrots]

What they need are weapon options, and likely an ability. As it stands, shooty Vet Intercessors are a sidegrade to mild upgrade from bare bones Sternguard, and assault Vet Intercessors are a flat out worse version of Vanguard.

 

If you want them to stand out, guve the shooty ones some of the Primaris weapon options. I like the option of giving 2 per 5 special or heavy guns. Gatling cannons, melta-rifles, whatever the Hellblaster guns are, las-fusils, that sort of stuff.

 

For assault, weapon options will help, but I don't think that alone would put them on par with Vanguard. At least with the currently available weapons (though the option for all hand flamers would be intersting at least). They'd need a new weapon or two unique to them, and/or something like advance and charge.

 

A catch-all that could be useful for both but not super powerful could be to have them always count as being in every doctrine.

[Halandaar]

Allow me to point you to a prior version of this exact conversation.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t see any good reason to field them armed with boltguns… I’d rather have more objsec units. If the assault versions got access to more power weapons they’d be viable.

[WARMASTER_]

They need a kit where they get better weapon options or now maybe let them freely mix and match load outs

[Lord_Ikka]

They need a kit where they get better weapon options or now maybe let them freely mix and match load outs

I would love an upgrade sprue similar to the chapter upgrades, that just has a thunder hammer, powerfist, powersword, and a selection of pistols/new Primaris special weapons. I don't think it will happen, but it would be an instant buy for me.

[Tokugawa]

BT sword brethren are just slightly better vet intercessors(same statline and 22pts base cost). The whole templars community are asking "how to make sword brethren playable?" and haven't hear an answer yet. So, your question…

[Charlo]

I'd love to see them get the choice of a specific ability, similar to the old Veteran rules/ HH veterans

[Rik Lightstar]

The Auto-Plasma on the Sword Brethren kit would be a great addition to the Veteran Intercessors. If they had access to those in a 2/5 ratio or more that would make them a lot more appealing.

 

Rik

[Karhedron]

A squad of those would be very tempting as it would basically be a squad of hellblasters and a squad of ABR Intercessors stuck together.

[Xenith]

Make them troops. In 9th ed/Rouboute Edition of the codex, force org slot is no longer tied to battlefield role, so Vet Intercessors are still...intercessors and should have the same force org slot. 

[Beta galactosidase]

For me, all flavours of Veterans be they Firstborn or Primaris would be perfectly well served by rule that let them benefit from all 3 Doctrines all the time. Maybe some of the units would need a slight bump in points to accommodate this, most likely Vanguard Vets would be the biggest beneficiaries (but they're probably the best Veteran unit anyway).

 

From a fluff perspective it would represent the huge amount of experience these units are meant to have, along with the fact that they're usually deployed as an auxiliary unit to a Strike Force from one of the other Companies. They're expected to be wherever they're needed.

 

Also open up the Stratagem "Fury of the First" to any unit of "Veterans".

 

Rik

This is the best idea I’ve seen

 

 

Having +1 A and +1 Ld for only 2 points per marine is pretty great

 

it doesn't seem that GW really knows what Vet Intercessors should do; they are trying to be the Sternguard/Vanguard vets of the Primaris units, but fall pretty far short of reaching that goal

+1a and Ld are the vet stats for vet units like trueborn, celestians, and chosen, even for fire warrior sergeants.

 

The best thing is if bonus abilities like charge after advance or shoot twice were Ld based instead of command points, and Ld penalties came from non-casualty stuff like just being near more enemy units than friendlies

 

And also if having more A than the model that shot you gave you a +1 to save.

 

I’d like a vet unit to be hard because they’re hard, not because they have the random ability to buy special bullets.

[Karhedron]

+1A and +1Ld is fine for +2 points. It is a pretty good upgrade for ABR Intercessors who like to mix it up in the midfield. The thing that breaks it for me slightly is that they are no longer Troops and hence lose ObjSec. At that point I start looking at Bladeguard and what they bring to the party.

[Helias_Tancred]

What they need are weapon options, and likely an ability. As it stands, shooty Vet Intercessors are a sidegrade to mild upgrade from bare bones Sternguard, and assault Vet Intercessors are a flat out worse version of Vanguard.

 

If you want them to stand out, guve the shooty ones some of the Primaris weapon options. I like the option of giving 2 per 5 special or heavy guns. Gatling cannons, melta-rifles, whatever the Hellblaster guns are, las-fusils, that sort of stuff.

 

For assault, weapon options will help, but I don't think that alone would put them on par with Vanguard. At least with the currently available weapons (though the option for all hand flamers would be intersting at least). They'd need a new weapon or two unique to them, and/or something like advance and charge.

 

A catch-all that could be useful for both but not super powerful could be to have them always count as being in every doctrine.

 

+1 .... good ideas. I agree that to be a viable separate unit Veteran Intercessors need something more to them ....

+1A and +1Ld is fine for +2 points. It is a pretty good upgrade for ABR Intercessors who like to mix it up in the midfield. The thing that breaks it for me slightly is that they are no longer Troops and hence lose ObjSec. At that point I start looking at Bladeguard and what they bring to the party.

 

Give them ObSec too.

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

They need a kit where they get better weapon options or now maybe let them freely mix and match load outs

I would love an upgrade sprue similar to the chapter upgrades, that just has a thunder hammer, powerfist, powersword, and a selection of pistols/new Primaris special weapons. I don't think it will happen, but it would be an instant buy for me.

YES PLEASE! If it also came with some vet shoulder pads, Heads and honours I’d be all over it