Deathwatch Strike Force Plays Like Special Forces

[techsoldaten]

Really enjoying the Octarius KT rules. Latest game was against Drukhari. Went second, gunned down 5 Venoms and a quarter of their occupants first turn. Marched on to 3 objectives and held them all game. Lost 4 models total, game was a rout by fourth turn.

 

At this point, Kill Teams really have the feel of special forces. Each one just comes in, dominates a small zone on the board, and have the rules / stratagems to deal with specific threats that arise. Being able to teleport a unit or two to where I need them relieves the pain of deployment mistakes. Having a master apothecary around to restore lost models makes some units extremely hard to do much against.

 

My impressions may be biased. I mostly play against Orks and Drukhari, get the feeling this would be different if I was facing other factions more often. Who else is playing them and what are your impressions?

[leth]

It finally feels like death watch are the focus of deathwatch. It doesnt feel like an army that is just mathematical efficiency and then spamming that. Its you as the player - turn by turn finding  mathematical efficiency for that turn in real time. 

 

I just love the super adaptability that allows me to run my special forces troops, and actually make them effective as special forces, rather than just over priced models that just die without accomplishing anything. 

 

I walk away from an AOR game going "My boys did what they are supposed to do, I made a bad decision"

[MadEdric]

I can't wait to try the Strike Force out. This is how I always envisioned them playing, super adaptable and hitting hard.

Now I just need to get the models I want for the list built.

Glad to see you guys have tested and like them.

[Charlo]

It does look incredibly fun and interesting, really feeling exactly like how the DW should be.

 

Just give me Primaris kill teams with a loadout like the standard guys!

[thinkerofuselessthings]

Really enjoying the Octarius KT rules. Latest game was against Drukhari. Went second, gunned down 5 Venoms and a quarter of their occupants first turn. Marched on to 3 objectives and held them all game. Lost 4 models total, game was a rout by fourth turn.

 

At this point, Kill Teams really have the feel of special forces. Each one just comes in, dominates a small zone on the board, and have the rules / stratagems to deal with specific threats that arise. Being able to teleport a unit or two to where I need them relieves the pain of deployment mistakes. Having a master apothecary around to restore lost models makes some units extremely hard to do much against.

 

My impressions may be biased. I mostly play against Orks and Drukhari, get the feeling this would be different if I was facing other factions more often. Who else is playing them and what are your impressions?

 

What list?

 

I've some trouble choosing the right kill teams. To much attracted by Primaris, less appealing by the most competitive build of Proteus KT.

[techsoldaten]

 

What list?

 

I've some trouble choosing the right kill teams. To much attracted by Primaris, less appealing by the most competitive build of Proteus KT.

 

 

I play a variant of a Deathwatch Firewall:

 

https://pastebin.com/UD8PzFh9

 

While I'm tweaking it for every game, the big change is dropping 4 Vanguard Vets to pay for more specialisms. I dropped the Company Veterans in a few games to make room for a Proteus Kill Team (SIA Bolters / Storm Shields) but don't do it often.

[thinkerofuselessthings]

 

 

What list?

 

I've some trouble choosing the right kill teams. To much attracted by Primaris, less appealing by the most competitive build of Proteus KT.

 

 

I play a variant of a Deathwatch Firewall:

 

https://pastebin.com/UD8PzFh9

 

While I'm tweaking it for every game, the big change is dropping 4 Vanguard Vets to pay for more specialisms. I dropped the Company Veterans in a few games to make room for a Proteus Kill Team (SIA Bolters / Storm Shields) but don't do it often.

 

 

Thank you for sharing, but I'm confused. 

 

In this List I can see a Dreadnought while The Strike Force Kill Team Army avoid the use of any vehicle apart from transport. 

 

Moreover you can't have any unit apart from character and kill team, thus the Vanguard Veteran unit can't be included, right?

[leth]

New actions seem to be perfect for the AOR, just need to have optimized priority aura. 

[techsoldaten]

 

 

I play a variant of a Deathwatch Firewall:

 

https://pastebin.com/UD8PzFh9

 

While I'm tweaking it for every game, the big change is dropping 4 Vanguard Vets to pay for more specialisms. I dropped the Company Veterans in a few games to make room for a Proteus Kill Team (SIA Bolters / Storm Shields) but don't do it often.

 

 

Thank you for sharing, but I'm confused. 

 

In this List I can see a Dreadnought while The Strike Force Kill Team Army avoid the use of any vehicle apart from transport. 

 

Moreover you can't have any unit apart from character and kill team, thus the Vanguard Veteran unit can't be included, right?

 

 

You're not confused.

 

This isn't a precise run-down of my current list, it's the starting point. It's written in a notebook, hence no cut and paste. It's nowhere near finalized.

 

Yes, the Dread and the Vanguard Vets are gone, along with the Servitors and Company Veterans. In their place have been an assortment of Proteus, Fortis and Indomitor KTs. Occasionally, I take a second Apothecary. I don't take vehicles, but am considering Razorbacks.

[thinkerofuselessthings]

 

 

 

I play a variant of a Deathwatch Firewall:

 

https://pastebin.com/UD8PzFh9

 

While I'm tweaking it for every game, the big change is dropping 4 Vanguard Vets to pay for more specialisms. I dropped the Company Veterans in a few games to make room for a Proteus Kill Team (SIA Bolters / Storm Shields) but don't do it often.

 

 

Thank you for sharing, but I'm confused. 

 

In this List I can see a Dreadnought while The Strike Force Kill Team Army avoid the use of any vehicle apart from transport. 

 

Moreover you can't have any unit apart from character and kill team, thus the Vanguard Veteran unit can't be included, right?

 

 

You're not confused.

 

This isn't a precise run-down of my current list, it's the starting point. It's written in a notebook, hence no cut and paste. It's nowhere near finalized.

 

Yes, the Dread and the Vanguard Vets are gone, along with the Servitors and Company Veterans. In their place have been an assortment of Proteus, Fortis and Indomitor KTs. Occasionally, I take a second Apothecary. I don't take vehicles, but am considering Razorbacks.

 

 

Understood! 

 

Sorry I really was a little confused.

 

Then back to the topic what Kill Team do you think are mandatory in a Strike Force?

 

New actions seem to be perfect for the AOR, just need to have optimized priority aura. 

 

Where I can find the new actions?

[techsoldaten]

 

 

You're not confused.

 

This isn't a precise run-down of my current list, it's the starting point. It's written in a notebook, hence no cut and paste. It's nowhere near finalized.

 

Yes, the Dread and the Vanguard Vets are gone, along with the Servitors and Company Veterans. In their place have been an assortment of Proteus, Fortis and Indomitor KTs. Occasionally, I take a second Apothecary. I don't take vehicles, but am considering Razorbacks.

 

 

Understood! 

 

Sorry I really was a little confused.

 

Then back to the topic what Kill Team do you think are mandatory in a Strike Force?

 

Oh, I never took you for anything but sincere. My bad for not stating thoughts clearly.

 

The mandatory KT is Indomitor with the Dominatus specialism. They get a lot of work done.

 

Double Flamestorm Gauntlets mean you are smashing anything that gets close. The Hellstorm Bolt Rifles and Plasma Exterminators have good range and can lay out a ton of shots.

[thinkerofuselessthings]

 

 

 

You're not confused.

 

This isn't a precise run-down of my current list, it's the starting point. It's written in a notebook, hence no cut and paste. It's nowhere near finalized.

 

Yes, the Dread and the Vanguard Vets are gone, along with the Servitors and Company Veterans. In their place have been an assortment of Proteus, Fortis and Indomitor KTs. Occasionally, I take a second Apothecary. I don't take vehicles, but am considering Razorbacks.

 

 

Understood! 

 

Sorry I really was a little confused.

 

Then back to the topic what Kill Team do you think are mandatory in a Strike Force?

 

Oh, I never took you for anything but sincere. My bad for not stating thoughts clearly.

 

The mandatory KT is Indomitor with the Dominatus specialism. They get a lot of work done.

 

Double Flamestorm Gauntlets mean you are smashing anything that gets close. The Hellstorm Bolt Rifles and Plasma Exterminators have good range and can lay out a ton of shots.

 

 

I've to admit that the Indomitor setting with 5 Heavy Intercessor (Hellstorm Bolt Rifles), 4 Flamers Aggressors and 1 Inceptor (I still prefer the cheap Bolter version) is incredibly effective. 

 

However I start to consider that the best Strike Force build relies on the Independent Proteus KT. 

 

The Proteus do not need Dominus Aegis, with all the Storm Shield that you can take. The most effective DW Strike Force lists are built in this manner. 

 

As reference here you can find the link to a Goonhammer article where is reviewed the winning list that brought Michael Costello to top 3:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-balanced-teams/

 

I think that it is an interesting read.

 

What do you think?

[techsoldaten]

 

 

Oh, I never took you for anything but sincere. My bad for not stating thoughts clearly.

 

The mandatory KT is Indomitor with the Dominatus specialism. They get a lot of work done.

 

Double Flamestorm Gauntlets mean you are smashing anything that gets close. The Hellstorm Bolt Rifles and Plasma Exterminators have good range and can lay out a ton of shots.

 

 

I've to admit that the Indomitor setting with 5 Heavy Intercessor (Hellstorm Bolt Rifles), 4 Flamers Aggressors and 1 Inceptor (I still prefer the cheap Bolter version) is incredibly effective. 

 

However I start to consider that the best Strike Force build relies on the Independent Proteus KT. 

 

The Proteus do not need Dominus Aegis, with all the Storm Shield that you can take. The most effective DW Strike Force lists are built in this manner. 

 

As reference here you can find the link to a Goonhammer article where is reviewed the winning list that brought Michael Costello to top 3:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-balanced-teams/

 

I think that it is an interesting read.

 

What do you think?

 

Saw that article. Interesting to see what the competitive types are up to.

 

Proteus Kill Teams are intriguing, especially with the Octarius rules. The fact so many permutations of units / tactics work is the best thing about the Codex. I've been asking myself if Proteus KTs are the biggest benefactors of the new rules, no surprise lists like this are doing well.

 

That said... 9th is still new for me, played my 11th game last night. One of the dimensions of the game I'm focused on is range, and how guns that shoot 30" work for gunlines. With proper deployment, this is the equivalent of an extra round of shooting. I don't think this aspect of KT play gets enough attention, combined with Specialisms it seems to be pretty impactful.

 

SIA Bolters are still 24". I get the point of Proteus KTs, put them out front and get the job done quick. My basic concern is whether that's a good strategy for achieving the insurmountable advantage characteristic of competitive lists. The question I'm asking: how will they do against something that wants to close in fast, like Daemons or melee Drukhari?

 

The Chaos Knights list (second in that article) seems like a good example of that. Not sure I would trade ranged firepower for melee durability. While I'm not a competitive player and still getting my bearings with 9th, my sense is gunlines with good ranged shooting have the advantage against the widest number of opponents.

[thinkerofuselessthings]

 

 

 

Oh, I never took you for anything but sincere. My bad for not stating thoughts clearly.

 

The mandatory KT is Indomitor with the Dominatus specialism. They get a lot of work done.

 

Double Flamestorm Gauntlets mean you are smashing anything that gets close. The Hellstorm Bolt Rifles and Plasma Exterminators have good range and can lay out a ton of shots.

 

 

I've to admit that the Indomitor setting with 5 Heavy Intercessor (Hellstorm Bolt Rifles), 4 Flamers Aggressors and 1 Inceptor (I still prefer the cheap Bolter version) is incredibly effective. 

 

However I start to consider that the best Strike Force build relies on the Independent Proteus KT. 

 

The Proteus do not need Dominus Aegis, with all the Storm Shield that you can take. The most effective DW Strike Force lists are built in this manner. 

 

As reference here you can find the link to a Goonhammer article where is reviewed the winning list that brought Michael Costello to top 3:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-balanced-teams/

 

I think that it is an interesting read.

 

What do you think?

 

Saw that article. Interesting to see what the competitive types are up to.

 

Proteus Kill Teams are intriguing, especially with the Octarius rules. The fact so many permutations of units / tactics work is the best thing about the Codex. I've been asking myself if Proteus KTs are the biggest benefactors of the new rules, no surprise lists like this are doing well.

 

That said... 9th is still new for me, played my 11th game last night. One of the dimensions of the game I'm focused on is range, and how guns that shoot 30" work for gunlines. With proper deployment, this is the equivalent of an extra round of shooting. I don't think this aspect of KT play gets enough attention, combined with Specialisms it seems to be pretty impactful.

 

SIA Bolters are still 24". I get the point of Proteus KTs, put them out front and get the job done quick. My basic concern is whether that's a good strategy for achieving the insurmountable advantage characteristic of competitive lists. The question I'm asking: how will they do against something that wants to close in fast, like Daemons or melee Drukhari?

 

The Chaos Knights list (second in that article) seems like a good example of that. Not sure I would trade ranged firepower for melee durability. While I'm not a competitive player and still getting my bearings with 9th, my sense is gunlines with good ranged shooting have the advantage against the widest number of opponents.

 

 

 

I get your point.

 

Not an universal way to answer your question, however looking to some of the most recent effective list in BCP app we can drive some indications.

 

Most list compries of 3 proteus KT and 2 Primaris KT. 

 

Primaris KT: mostly Fortis and Indomitor these KT are (IMO) the most fragile unit in this kind of build. Fortis KT are usually build around 5 intercessor and 5 hellblaster with assault Plasma Exterminator. Indomitor KT have the high fire volume role with flamer/boltstorm Aggressor and 1 inceptor (to fall back and fire). As we can see these two units have their main application in the shooting phase, and probably are the main target for Extremis Specialization stratagem. Their high volume of fire (Plasma or Bolter) fits perfectly with the stratagem. 

 

Proteus KT: I've seen the same build around multiple list. This KT is built around the concept of high early pressure. They are independent because the high number of storm shields and usually have close combat capability. 5 veterans, 1 biker, 1 Vanguard veteran, 2 terminators and 1 Black Shield is the most reliable build for this KT (IMO). This has interesting strategy to close the gap between your forces and enemy units. As you can see having a Biker and a VV with jump pack let you to cover long distance while reaching the enemy. Moreover switcing to White Scars give you enormous charge range. This help a lot to make high early pressure on the enemy.

 

I've a game against Ad Mech where I'll try this list, what I still have to determine are the secondary mission. Some mission like The Long Vigil may be usefull again with that high ealy pressure.