Helias Tancred's 3rd Company + Ravenwing & Deathwing support

[Helias_Tancred]

1k match against Black Templars. Great game! It came down to my two remaining Deathwing Knights and my Company Master in gravis armor, and his wounded Redemptor Dreadnought. 

 

Dark Angel Victory. 

 

My Deathwing Knights and my Company Master in gravis armor were my best units. The latter killed a 6 wound remaining Gladiator Valiant, and killed off the Redemptor! He's definitely getting painted! Same with the Apothecary Biologis who travels with him in my 6 aggressors squad! If you give him the Heavenfall Blade enhancement it buffs BOTH the fist and the relic sword! 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Helias_Tancred]

2/26/25

 

I'm back. 

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm in the process of buying a new Dark Angel collection. 

 

So far I have:

 

Azrael

Belial

Librarian in terminator armor

Librarian

Librarian in phobos armor

Chaplain

Chaplain in terminator armor

Lazarus (that I'm kit-bashing into my Company Master of the 3rd)

Apothecary

Apothecary Biologis

Techmarine

Lieutenant geared for melee

Lieutenant geared to be with a shooty unit

Lieutenant with combi-weapon

Company Heroes

10 Intercessors

5 Heavy Intercessors

10 Hellblasters

10 Infernus marines

6 Bladeguard Veterans

6 Inner Circle Companions

Deathwing terminator squad

2 Deathwing Knight squads

 

... and I still need to get inceptors ... *maybe eradicators, maybe assault intercessors, maybe a Judiciar? Help me out here on those maybes if you don't mind?

 

On my vehicle list I plan on getting either a Land Raider or Land Raider Redeemer, Gladiator Lancer, Repulsor, 2 Impulsors, Ballistus Dreadnought, Redemptor Dreadnought, and a Drop Pod. 

 

I was planning on holding off on any Ravenwing until I see what they refresh of that line in the future.

 

Any feedback, criticism , advice, etc is appreciated. 

 

 

 

Edited March 1 by Helias_Tancred

[Tacitus]

Sammael and some Black Knights isn't bad.

Ravenguard Command and Black Knights is arguably even better. 

Apothecary Biologis pretty much should be in Aggressors.

Belial is unimpressive but I get wanting the model.

Same with Company Heroes.

More Heavy Intercessors maybe.

I like Azrael with Inner Circle Champions but Hellblasters may still be the mathematical way to go - Azrael and ICC layer the defense like Tiggy and BGV.

I like the Lion next to either Azrael and the ICC or a Phobos Libby and some Infiltrators (Can't Deep Strike within 12" and can't shoot them outside 12")  And he's a great model.

Erads wouldn't be horrible but they're in a strange too good yet not good enough place depending on what you're shooting.

I like the Judiciar but he's so hard to find a place to fit.  Especially in an army that has Asmodeus fighting for the same leadership role. 

 

[Helias_Tancred]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Sammael and some Black Knights isn't bad.

Ravenguard Command and Black Knights is arguably even better. 

Apothecary Biologis pretty much should be in Aggressors.

Belial is unimpressive but I get wanting the model.

Same with Company Heroes.

More Heavy Intercessors maybe.

I like Azrael with Inner Circle Champions but Hellblasters may still be the mathematical way to go - Azrael and ICC layer the defense like Tiggy and BGV.

I like the Lion next to either Azrael and the ICC or a Phobos Libby and some Infiltrators (Can't Deep Strike within 12" and can't shoot them outside 12")  And he's a great model.

Erads wouldn't be horrible but they're in a strange too good yet not good enough place depending on what you're shooting.

I like the Judiciar but he's so hard to find a place to fit.  Especially in an army that has Asmodeus fighting for the same leadership role. 

 

 

I'm not buying any firstborn Ravenwing models. I *might* get a Darkshroud but that would be it. I'll wait until they get a refresh next year or into 11th edition.

 

I was thinking the Judiciar would be good with the ICC? But I also got the Librarian to go with them at times? The 4+ invulnerable is nice for them.

 

 

[Tacitus]

5 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

I'm not buying any firstborn Ravenwing models. I *might* get a Darkshroud but that would be it. I'll wait until they get a refresh next year or into 11th edition.

 

I was thinking the Judiciar would be good with the ICC? But I also got the Librarian to go with them at times? The 4+ invulnerable is nice for them.

 

 

That's why I do Azrael.  4++, Sustained, and -1 to get hit.  The Judiciar is a bad fit for not giving an invuln and because he's a one-and-done leader.  He can't be a secondary to something else - so he tends to gravitate to the 10 man Assault Intercessor Squad type of thing and Asmodeus is already there. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Well thanks, that will save me $80 from getting him off of eBay! lol. 

 

[Helias_Tancred]

35 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

That's why I do Azrael.  4++, Sustained, and -1 to get hit.  The Judiciar is a bad fit for not giving an invuln and because he's a one-and-done leader.  He can't be a secondary to something else - so he tends to gravitate to the 10 man Assault Intercessor Squad type of thing and Asmodeus is already there. 

 

I know you stay up on all the data so here's a question for you Tacitus, on a captain power fist or master-crafted power weapon (sword)? Is the additional attack worth the difference in weapon strength?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1 by Helias_Tancred

[Tacitus]

You mean on the Gravis Captain? Definitely switch to the pistol, Fist, and Relic Weapon version. 

 

On the regular captain? Mostly Personal Preference.  A little: It depends on what you have in the rest of your army and/or the unit its going to join.  

 

I mean technically the number of scenarios where the sword outperforms the fist is smaller and the amount of that outperformance for the fist is pretty negligible. This edition you're usually not getting your tank/monster hunting from infantry, and definitely not from infantry melee.  Maybe from a walker's fist, Tor Garadon, or a Primarch but again Tor is the only INFANTRY keyworded guy there so the fist wounds T4 on 2's, and T6 on 3's vs that S5 sword.  

[Tacitus]

9 hours ago, Helias_Tancred said:

Well thanks, that will save me $80 from getting him off of eBay! lol. 

 

I wouldn't go that far.  The Judiciar would be a nice leader for your BGV.  Fights First MC Power Weapons is pretty tasty.  Edit to Add:  Because DA can use Azrael to give a 4++ like a Libby, they don't have a Calgar type model.  I put Calgar in Bladeguard (a little more than half the time) for hidden super fists, and a plethora of 4++ between the BGV and his Victrix for the same reason he goes in Aggressors so well.  Move, Advance, Shoot, AND Charge because of his bespoke.  DA don't have that, and have to get it from a Det.  That means your BGV are freed up for the Judiciar. 

 

But I wouldn't pay $80 for him on Ebay if I still needed Eradicators and/or some Bladeguard.  Heroes of the Chapter gives you the Judiciar 3 Erads and 3 BGV plus the Chaplain I like less and the Bladeguard Ancient.  The Judiciar is only available from Honoured of the Chapter or people "parting him out" from there.  $80 for him, and $60 for the Erads is already 140 of the $168 the full box costs.  The Erads are rifle only press fits but meh, I've got 9 Erads myself so I can switch between Rifles and Multis.

 

 

Edited March 1 by Tacitus

[Helias_Tancred]

Thanks. 

 

As for BGV I have 3 that came with the Combat Patrol, and 3 from a stand-alone kit I bought. So for the Judiciar it would be getting abused by his price off eBay lol. 

 

I also have two lieutenants I forgot to mention, one geared for melee and one more geared to be with a shooty unit. 

 

 

[Tacitus]

It sounds like you actually have a Lietuenant?  Are the options for the Power Fist and the Sword in the same sprue?  It doesn't matter, you can absolutely use him as a Captain, its just to get a better idea of which kits you have since you were asking which option to use.

 

Went line-by-line of what you listed with some basic thoughts on what you've got.

Spoiler

Azrael

Good with Hellbalsters and ICC

 

Belial

Good to Look at.  Wound Allocation rules make him difficult to like.

 

Librarian in terminator armor

Probably best for Shootinators.  His Sustained works on both melee and shooting, but I'm not sure DWK put out enough attacks to really take advantage.

 

Librarian

Good with ICC to give them a 4++, more sword whacks, and a nifty but easily overlookable shooting attack.

 

Librarian in phobos armor

Its not very offensive but I like pairing this guy with Infiltrators to put a nullzone around a Primarch.

 

Chaplain

Much better if you're taking something hard locked into DA faction (Lion, DWK, Deathwing Terminators, etc.)  But still not bad.

 

Chaplain in terminator armor

He looks REALLY good inside some DWK both for the +1 to wound (if you're not using Inner Circle Task Force vowed objectives) with their hammers (but the 4+ ANTI still needs to be natural) and to give them 4+++ vs mortals making DWK an even tougher brick wall to crack.

 

Lazarus (that I'm kit-bashing into my Company Master of the 3rd)

 

Apothecary

When I put Azrael in the ICC, I put the Apothecary in with the Hellblasters.  Shoot.  Overheat to death.  Shoot Again.  Resurrect with the Apothecary.

 

Apothecary Biologis

Limited functionality without Aggressors.  His Abilities just don't syergize with other Gravis.

 

Techmarine

FOMO Bait:  Right now all Dreads are supposedly Deathwing.  So do you paint them white, or do you want to paint them green for when the battle companies get non-venerable Dreadnaughts again?

 

Lieutenant geared for melee

Lieutenant geared to be with a shooty unit

Lieutenant with combi-weapon

Solo Dude, Actually synergizes pretty well with your +1 to Wound (However they get it) DWK.  Vow their (target) objective (Or add Termie Chaplain) to get +1 to Wound, and mark objective with LT to get reroll 1's.  You're likely wounding on 3's (and 2's become threes) and rerolling 1's to wound. 

 

Company Heroes

They're a little schizophrenic.  Champion likes to bash stuff, two like to shoot stuff, and The Ancient makes the too small squad +1OC per model  -1 to get wounded isn't bad though.

 

10 Intercessors

Sticky Cap and Dakka are pretty nice.

 

5 Heavy Intercessors

Paired with your Terminators they're even more units that can eat and ignore damage if you want to lean into Attrition Warfare.

 

10 Hellblasters

Obvious Azrael/Libby/Apothecary landing zone.

 

10 Infernus marines

Probably better synergy in the Ravenwing Det (Advance or Fallback and fire with Auto-hit weapons)  Similar to Firestorm Det that gives their Pyreblasters ASSAULT keyword.

 

6 Bladeguard Veterans

Without Calgar: Bladeguard Captain (with Relic Shield on website) and Bladeguard Lieutenant (With Storm Shield on website) could work.  Also Judiciar.  Potentially Power Armored Chaplain.

 

6 Inner Circle Companions

Azrael, or Libby - though this can tip off how important they are to you.

 

Deathwing terminator squad

I like the Termie Libby here.

 

2 Deathwing Knight squads

Generic Terminator Captain or Chaplain.  +2" (in the right Det) Rerollable (Captain ability) charges make them nice while the Chaplain gives them the 4+++ vs Mortals.  Tough call.

 

Beyond that, part of it is also going to depend on what sort of army you want to make.  Do you want to shoot?  Punch?  A little of both?  That's going to affect most of the input for "what to get next" - generically speaking you're missing vs-Vehicle/Monster.  Infantry has a hard time finding high enough S + Damage to reliably take down tanks and monsters after the new SvT design.  Your best Tank/Monster killers are also your center objective anvils (The Deathwing Knights)  Choosing to avoid first born means no Devastators and Lascannon and it means no Ravenwing with more Anti-X 4+.  Avoiding the who-knows-what-color Ballistus Dreads is probably my FOMO/idiosyncracy so you may not be as paralyzed as I am. There's also Gladiator Lancers, Land Raiders, and sort of Repulsors plus the new Speeders.  So what kind of army are you looking for?

[Helias_Tancred]

Oh I forgot to add that I have 6 aggressors for my new collection. That is who the apothecary biologist is for, like you said.

 

Edited March 2 by Helias_Tancred

[Tacitus]

So what kind of a list do you want to make?

[Helias_Tancred]

Right now my DA collection is battle company and Deathwing focused, because I don't want to spend money on Ravenwing kits that are going to be replaced in a year or so? Funny thing is the Ravenwing Detachment are the DA rules that I think are the most well done. The others are meh?

 

So I'm going to have a squad of Deathwing Terminators, and a squad of Deathwing Knights with maces, then after that a more standard space marine battle company collection: 10 hellblasters, 10 intercessors, 5 heavy intercessors, 6 boltstorm aggressors, 6 plasma inceptors, company heroes, 6 bladeguard veterans, 3 eliminators, and 10 infernos marines.  ... on my "might get soon" list are eradicators and assault intercessors.

 

For characters I have: Lion El'Jonson, Azrael, Asmodai (I like his model but his rules are meh), Belial, Company master with plasma pistol and power fist, librarian, librarian in terminator armor, librarian in phobos armor, chaplain, chaplain in terminator armor,  lieutenant with combi-weapon, lieutenant with master-crafted power sword and master-crafted bolt rifle, lieutenant with power fist and plasma pistol, judiciar, apothecary, apothecary biologis, and company master in gravis armor with boltstorm gauntlet/power fist, and relic blade. 

 

For vehicles its 2 impulsors, gladiator lancer, land raider redeemer, drop pod, ballistus dreadnought. 

 

So that's what I'm working with currently. I've been building all of these like a mad man. 

 

So what kind of list? I like to play a 60/40 mix list of shooty and melee units. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 07:27 AM by Helias_Tancred