Sons of Freyja primaris chapter

[Sivyour _M]

Son’s of Freyja

A chapter of the ultima founding formed after the lord commander of the Imperium Robute Guilliman returned to the Imperium
it is there for a chapter of Primaris marines.   

HOMEWORLD

The feudal world of Freyja, a planet of ice and fire as a volcanic ice world with pine forests and deep fjords. The tribes
on the world are of an Iron age resemblance in culture and to most, they are considered barbaric with fierce rivalries
between tribes that any native of Fenris would recognize.
The tribespeople of Freyja refer to the marines of the chapter as the Einherjar.
In the frequent battles between the tribes, survivors who have shown particular valor or received wounds would be fatal to feudal world

standards are taken by the All Father's priestess' known as Valkyrie to Folkvangr, a field at the foot of the Chapters fortress-monastery

where the chapters Apothecary's and Chaplains work through and make selections for potential recruits for the Chapter any females

among them will be taught the ways of the healer and then will become new Valkyries' and the official messengers of the Chapter to the

tribes and are considered serfs to the chapter in rank to the wider imperium but a figure of mystical of reverence to the population of Freyja,

they will bear a golden neckless and tattoo of the Chapters symbol (a Combined elder futhark rune that resembles an 'h' with a broken

spine to the untrained eye) and authority, from this point on to harmed in any way is to invoke the wrath of the Chapter
for they are the eyes of the Chapter on their world and are considered wise women but not rulers to the tribes and are
free to roam where they please.

BELIEFS

The Chapter sees the Emperor as the All-Father they have whole heartily embraced the culture of their new homeworld which shared many

similarities with ancient Nordic cultures of Old Earth. They show reverence to all the loyalist Primarchs equally.

The Sons of Freyja rely heavily on their librarians known as Runeseers with every company having one permanently attached to it

and they are regularly consulted before any big action. Where the Runeseer will cast his runes to see if there can be any further insights gained for

the coming battle from the All-Father or his Chosen Einherjar.

They believe that if they die in service with their honour intact then when their time comes they will by the All-Fathers side
to fight in the final battle alongside him and his Chosen Einherjar.

 

The Sons of Freyja are one of the more humanitarian chapters, possibly as a result of them freely mixing with their homeworlds population

after ascension to full Astarte's so long as their duty's permit it. Their physical appearance and attitudes could be mistaken for a Space Wolf if it

wasn't for the absence of the pelts and elongated canine teeth. But like the Wolves, they have been witnessed drinking copious amounts of strong

mead and ale and tend to be perceived by outsiders as to never take anything seriously. Though this is a falsehood and honour is everything to the

chapter and duels aka Holmgang will be used to settle disputes of honour, this would usually be till first blood is drawn though it should be noted

that this is not always the case, such as when a dispute between Jarl Gufrum of the 3rd Company and Castellan Rimaz of the Black Templers where

the Castellan insulted Jarl Gufrum by implying he was trying to avoid combat for refusing to advance on an Ork horde to protect civilians' Gufrum

punched the unfortunate Templar breaking his helm in the process and then challenged him to a Holmgang. The Castellan looking confused as to

what Gufrum meant till a Gothi whom had served in the deathwatch told him "It was a dual like your feasts of blades only at agreed upon time within

a ring of our brothers and yours to witness the settling of honour you were no armour, and are only allowed a standard shield And sword or war axe, in

the ring of honour. You have three spare shields and with first blood drawn the defeated party bows and concedes and honour is redeemed. As it is

matter personnel of honour you must fight yourself no champions can take your place, though I doubt this will be an issue for you.".

 

The Rimaz and Gufrums Holmgang was a display that none could dispute though the Castellan had lost only two of his shield's the Jarl managed to

draw 1st blood the and the hot-headed Castellan refused to submit feeling cheated and struck out again at Jarl Gufrum, at which Gufrum took offence

and rolling aside to avoid the blow lashed out a blow that took the ill-fated Castellans life. Though honour was restored the loss of the Castellan resulted

in the Jarl Gufrum handing the Black Templars next Castellan, a master-crafted power weapon from his personal armoury as an apology, unfortunately,

the new commander of the Black Templers not understanding the magnitude of the gesture in the customs of the population Freyja and still angry at the

loss of Rimaz throw the weapon to the ground in disgust and stormed off, since then the rift of mistrust and disdain between the Black Templars and the

sons of Freyja has not dissipated and the two chapters will always watch each other’s lines for signs of treachery.

 

What Jarl Gufrums gesture meant was if you take this weapon then you see me as a friend and battle brother, reject it and
you can't trust yourself not you use it against me or break it and war will follow.

 

GENESEEED

 

Officially listed as a White Scar successor but even as Greyshields when posted with other units that are of the Great Khans gene line they never

could quite fit in with them. With little things, such they can ride a Astartes pattern bike as well as any other chapters marines, but not to the

standards as a White Scar and their more inclined to hold a defensive line than to lead a lighting fast charge the foe. It has called their lineage into 

question by the White Scars, but the Son's of Freyja themselves are not overly bothered as to their lineage for them it's enough to be able to serve the

All-Father. The similarities  between the the Cultures of the Sons of Freyja and the Space Wolves  has led to some to claim that they must be of leman

Russ' line, but Investigation into the Son's of Freyja Geneseed founding of the Space Wolves proves inconclusive especially considering the chapters

Geneseed shows no sign of the Canis Helix that is unique to all Sons of Russ.

ORGANIZATION

They follow the Codex but do not follow it as religiously when it comes to tactics as they feel if you always follow the
same tactics you can be outmaneuvered, their use of unconventional tactics has raised eyebrows amongst other more
stringent Codex Chapters but have yet to come to blows over it, it is known that on one occasion Guilliman himself did
intervene on the Son's of Freyja’s behalf stating the Codex was never intended as anything more than a guideline and was
never meant to be a religious text, it is not known to which Chapter that Guilliman was explaining this to or how well it
was received, but the Son's of Freyja took it as license to diverge from its teachings at will.
They do not use the tactical markings common through the Astartes Chapters, instead, they use a colour coded elder futhark runic
system. Red for battle line, blue for fire support, yellow for close support and gold for veterans but rank still follows
the more Codex patterns and have their company colour displayed on their left knee pad with a golden numeral
rune emblazoned upon it, and refer to their squads as Vikings

CHAPTER COLOURS
 
metallic teal and gold trim.

Sons of Freyja chapter symbol

 

BATTLE CRY
 
Their battle cry is reputed to be "For Freyja and the All-Father!" though reports vary as sometimes there is just a pre
battle acknowledgement to their ancestors both pre-transhuman and transhuman as thanks to some unknown quark in there
genetics they all remember their past life’s in the tribes of Freyja this can lead to friction within the Chapter as old
rivalries can resurge but the Gothi's are always quick to step in, should a neutral enemy not present its self to stop
the animosity from flaring, though some Company commanders don’t see this old rivalry as a problem as it pushes the
warriors to outdo each other in the field. 

RANKS AND TITLES:

Chapter Master = High King  
Company Captain= Jarl
Lieutenant = Thane
Sergeant = Huskarl
Veteran = Ulfhednar
Company/chapter champion = Berserker 
Apothecary’s = Bonebinder 
Librarian = Runeseer
Techmarine = Ironseer
Chaplain = Gothi
Battle Brother = Drengr

Edited December 20, 2021 by Sivyour _M

[Sivyour _M]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/71142733@N05/albums/72157720215477646 for photos of the Sons of Freyja

[Minigiant]

First off, welcome to B&C

Secondly, welcome to the coolest section......the Liber

 

Thirdly, some basic format would really help this post, for example bold headings.

 

Now without further ado, lets take a look here

 

 

Son’s of Freyja

Space Marine Chapter

A chapter of the ultima founding formed after the lord commander of the Imperium Robute Guilliman returned to the Imperium it is there for a chapter of Primaris marines.  

 

I am a big opponent of the use of certain words in Chapter names in 40k but, I will leave that for another day. Other than that, getting straight to the point with the Ultima Founding. Good start.

 

 

 

Their home world is the feudal world of Freyja, a planet of ice and fire as a volcanic ice world with pine forests and deep fjords. The tribes on the world are of an Iron age resemblance in culture and to most they are considered barbaric with fierce rivalries between tribes that any from native of Fenris would recognize.

 

This is where a sub heading would be great. It saves the preamble e.g:
 

 

Homeworld

 

Freyja the feudal world made of ice and fire...

 

 

Active voice

 

 

 

 The tribes people of Freyja refer the marines of the chapter as the Einherjar and the dead and dying in the frequent battles between the tribes are taken by the All Father's priestess' known as Valkyrie to Folkvangr a field at the foot of the Chapters fortress monastery where the chapters Apothecary's and Chaplains work through and make selections for potential recruits  for the Chapter any females among the them will be taught the ways of the healer and then will become the messengers of the Chapter to the tribes and are considered serfs to the chapter in rank to the wider imperium, they will bear a golden neckless and tattoo of the Chapters symbol and authority, from this point on to harmed in any way is to invoke the wrath of the Chapter for they are the eyes of the Chapter on their world and are considered wise women but not rulers to the tribes and are free to roam where they please.

This is one looooog sentence, and the bit in red does not make sense. I understand that as the chapter recruiting from the dead which is clearly wrong.

 

Anyone recruited and not made an Astartes will become a serf, you can imply that to be more precise.
 

The yellow bit is good, it is part of the show me don't tell me. One small point though, at no point prior do you "show us" what the chapter symbol is

 

 

 

Beliefs of the Chapter, they see the Emperor as the All Father but do not know who their Primarch is so venerate all the loyal Primarch’s equally, thought they acknowledge they can't be sons of Russ, Sanguinus, Corax or Dorn

The Ultima Founding without knowing their primarch is unique as far as I am aware among canon chapters. The chapter noticeably draws similarities with the  Space Wolves. If you want to show that without outright stating it like you have, may I suggest saying something along the lines of

 

"Investigation into the Sons of F upon speculation of being a founding of the Space Wolves proves inconclusive especially considering the chapters geneseed shows no sign of the Canis Helix that is unique to all Sons of Russ"

You can do similar things by rejecting the other chapters flawed gene-seeds.

 

Overall though I would highly suggest picking a pregenitor chapter, and expanding on their beliefs more. In my opinion getting to understand a Chapters beliefs is the best place to write an IA

 

 

The Sons of Freyja are as protective of humans as the famed Salamanders possibly as a result of being able to remember the old life's they once had, there physical appearance and attitudes could be mistaken for a space wolf if it wasn't for the absence of the pelts and elongated canine teeth, but like the wolves they have been witnessed drinking copious amounts of strong mead and ale and tend to be perceived by outsiders as to never take anything seriously, though this is a falsehood and honour is everything to the chapter and duels aka Holmgang will be used to settle disputes of honour , this would usually be till first blood is drawn though it should be noted that this is not always the case such as when a dispute between Jarl Gufrum of the 3rd Company and Castellan Rimaz of the Black Templers where the Castellan insulted Jarl Gufrum by implying he was trying to avoid combat for refusing to advance on a Ork horde to protect civilian's Gufrum punched the unfortunate Templar braking his helm in the process and then challenged him to a Holmgang the Castellan looking confused as to what Gufrum meant till a Gothi whom had served in the death watch  told him  "It was a dual like your feasts of blades only at agreed upon time with in a ring of our brothers and yours to witness the settling of honour you were no armour and are only allowed a shield and a standard sword, in the ring of honour you have three spare shields and with first blood drawn the defeated party bows and concedes and honour is redeemed as a matter of honour you must fight yourself no champions can take your place, though I doubt this will be an issue for you.".

 

There is a lot of connections in this IA to what the chapter is not, the connotation I get from this is that they are the awkward middle child who don't really know who they are. Not knowing who they are could be an interesting angle but for that I think the whole being part of the Ultima Founding needs to be pushed. New to the Imperium and still trying to find their footing (This of course undoes a lot of what else you wrote).

Good first attempt, now for the challenging part, endless proof reading, development, and refinement. Good luck

[Sivyour _M]

sorry not to computer coded literate the I'm my original draft on my computer there were pictures witch in clued the chapter symbol

but unfortunately, I could not get the picture to transfer over to this it just would not work, I had to resort to photos from a Flicker pool.

 

I'm still trying to get my head around all the new lore for 40K I started in 2nd ed stopped in 7th and re-entered the hobby

at the beginning of this year.

 

the dead and dying thing is meant to mean from the primitive point of view of the natives of the world were from their point

of view, these would be fatal wounds suffered but with the wider imperium tech level so to speak these wounds would be survivable with bionics and

good surgery etc. yea it needs work lol I'm no wordsmith

[Minigiant]

yea it needs work lol I'm no wordsmith

Not a wordsmith.......yet. Just have to keep working on it, and reading other great IAs

[Brother Lunkhead]

Welcome to the ranks of THE LIBER Brother

 

Very fine start to your DIY chapter. I've always been a big fan of the Space Vikings theme There's a rich lore to draw from, so much like the themes originating from the Blood Angels, this one isn't close to being dried up

 

Your paint scheme looks really nice and Green Stuff work is first rate. 

 

My only item of critique lies with this:

 

GENESEEED

It has been rased by some that they could be of leman Russ' line, due to the similarities between them but Investigation
into the Son's of Freyja geneseed founding of the Space Wolves proves inconclusive especially considering the chapters geneseed shows no sign of
the Canis Helix that is unique to all Sons of Russ.

The mystery surrounding gene seed origin plays well with first generation Astartes chapters, but imho not so well with Ultima Founding Primaris chapters.

With many first gen chapters being thousands of years old, it's easy to see how records of chapter gene seed origins get lost to time and the vast bureaucracies of the Imperium. Primaris and specifically the Ultima chapters are just too new to fall victim to this old trope. Viking themed chapters should not be limited to the Sons of Russ. Your challenge is coming up with a good story to explain this. Did the Sons of Freya work closely with the Sons of Russ while they were Grey Shields? Perhaps they were unofficially adopted into the subculture of Russ's gene-sons who were greatly impressed by these Astartes who fought with the same ferocity. The Sons of Freya may have whole heartily embraced the culture of their new homeworld which shared many similarities with ancient Nordic cultures of Old Earth and Fenris. Perhaps they draw their inspiration from all of the above..... or something altogether different.

 

Good luck with your new chapter. I'm looking forward to seeing more   

[Sivyour _M]

in short, it's they have whole heartily embraced the culture of their new homeworld which shared many similarities with ancient Nordic cultures

of Old Earth option

 

I'm trying t go along the line of a naughty tech-priest has been ignoring Guilliman's orders and used the Geenseed that he was told not to from

either traitor or lost Pirmarch stock, but they themselves don't know it, I'm still trying to figure out how to implement it into the

lore of the chapter.

 

thank you both for you feedback its really helping

Edited December 9, 2021 by Sivyour _M

[Minigiant]

I would choose Ultramarines as they are "bland" so not to interfere with the culture.

 

I would then say reports have suggested that this geneseed not to be the case and speculation has suggested Soace Wolf, however upon further investigation no Canin Helix has been observed and as such proof seems inconclusive

 

 

May I suggest reading this: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371261-what-are-some-of-your-favourite-index-astartes/?do=findComment&comment=5733091

 

Yes mine is kindly mentioned but it is crap so read some of the other IAs for inspiration

Edited December 9, 2021 by Minigiant

[Sivyour _M]

ok well I think that's a better take.

[Gamiel]

In the frequent battles between the tribes, survivors are taken by the All Father's priestess'

Suggest: instead of "survivors" have something like "the still living fallen", "those whose wounds are deadly by feudal world standard", or similar. As it's stated now it suggest that all that have entered the battles and survive are taken.

 

an show reverence to all the loyalist Primarchs equally 

Think you mean to have "They show reverence to all the loyalist Primarchs equally" here.

 

they believe that if they die in service with their honour intact then when their time comes they will by the All-Fathers side to fight in the final battle alongside him and his Chosen Einherjar.

This could lead to a dislike for fighting Nurgle forces, whose disease can kill a marine after battle, when he is not doing his service.

 

space wolf

 the first letters in both worlds should be capital, and there many other instences where there should be a capital letter

 

Their physical appearance and attitudes could be mistaken for a space wolf if it

wasn't for the absence of the pelts and elongated canine teeth, but like the wolves, they have been witnessed drinking copious amounts of strong

mead and ale and tend to be perceived by outsiders as to never take anything seriously, though this is a falsehood and honour is everything to the

chapter and duels aka Holmgang will be used to settle disputes of honour, this would usually be till first blood is drawn though it should be noted

that this is not always the case such as when a dispute between Jarl Gufrum of the 3rd Company and Castellan Rimaz of the Black Templers where

the Castellan insulted Jarl Gufrum by implying he was trying to avoid combat for refusing to advance on an Ork horde to protect civilians' Gufrum

punched the unfortunate Templar breaking his helm in the process and then challenged him to a Holmgang the Castellan looking confused as to

what Gufrum meant till a Gothi whom had served in the deathwatch told him "It was a dual like your feasts of blades only at agreed upon time within

a ring of our brothers and yours to witness the settling of honour you were no armour, and are only allowed a shield and a standard sword, in the

ring of honour you have three spare shields and with first blood drawn the defeated party bows and concedes and honour is redeemed as a matter

of honour you must fight yourself no champions can take your place, though I doubt this will be an issue for you.".

This is one long sentence, add some periods in it.

 

 

I have some thoughts if you want to lean in on the "Freyja" part

Edited December 13, 2021 by Gamiel

[Sivyour _M]

yep punctuation and grammar have always been a pit fall for me. Thank you points taken on and hopefully sorted now. dyslexia is a real pain in the proverbial. 

[Brother Lunkhead]

in short, it's they have whole heartily embraced the culture of their new homeworld which shared many similarities with ancient Nordic cultures

of Old Earth option

There's plenty of precedence in official lore for this, so I think it works well.

 

I'm trying t go along the line of a naughty tech-priest has been ignoring Guilliman's orders and used the Geenseed that he was told not to from

either traitor or lost Pirmarch stock, but they themselves don't know it, I'm still trying to figure out how to implement it into the

lore of the chapter.

If you are set on going this route, I think subtle approach would be more effective. If you want to create a mystery just leave some crumbs for your audience to speculate over that might raise the curiosity of the Inquisition but the chapter can plausibly deny and even scoff at. For example, the official gene-seed designation can be from one of the more standard (non-controversial and no standout abnormalities) stock such as Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, or White Scars. This gene-seed is verified by "official" tithes provided by the chapter.

 

If you want to go with the "naughty tech-priest" story (and I'm not saying that this is a bad idea), using a manipulated gene-seed with obvious markers deleted (Space Wolves with no fangs, or Raven Guard with no black eyes, black hair, white skin) would raise red flags with both Cawl and Guilliman. It would be nigh impossible to get this past them with Cawl micromanaging the project and the Primarch's inhuman eye for detail. Also, if both were aware of and condomed any such activity, such obvious red flags would not be present. They would see to that

 

I would choose Ultramarines as they are "bland" so not to interfere with the culture.

Not trying to precipitate an Ultramarine argument here but I'm not sure what you are saying here Please extrapolate.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

in short, it's they have whole heartily embraced the culture of their new homeworld which shared many similarities with ancient Nordic cultures

of Old Earth option

 

I'm trying t go along the line of a naughty tech-priest has been ignoring Guilliman's orders and used the Geenseed that he was told not to from

either traitor or lost Pirmarch stock, but they themselves don't know it, I'm still trying to figure out how to implement it into the

lore of the chapter.

 

thank you both for you feedback its really helping

 

 

One thing to keep in mind if you go this route is that Cawl wants to use traiter legion gene seed. Guilliman tells him not to but isn't sure he'll listen. If I were going that route for a homebrew, I'd make them one of the first Ultima founding chapters that was sent across the great rift. They either wouldn't know to send a tithe of geneseed or the practice may be suspended while the storms are active.

 

They'd view not knowing their founding primarch as a failure on Cawl's part, and value the loyalist primarchs equally but also wonder if the knowledge was omitted on purpose. The lack of first founding to emulate combined with how dangerous the imperium Nihilus is would lead to them embracing the culture of the world they were told to use as a homebase. 

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

One thing to keep in mind if you go this route is that Cawl wants to use traiter legion gene seed. Guilliman tells him not to but isn't sure he'll listen. If I were going that route for a homebrew, I'd make them one of the first Ultima founding chapters that was sent across the great rift. They either wouldn't know to send a tithe of geneseed or the practice may be suspended while the storms are active.

 

They'd view not knowing their founding primarch as a failure on Cawl's part, and value the loyalist primarchs equally but also wonder if the knowledge was omitted on purpose. The lack of first founding to emulate combined with how dangerous the imperium Nihilus is would lead to them embracing the culture of the world they were told to use as a homebase. 

 

Lots of good points here However, in spite of the chaos (pun intended) created by the Great Rift, this will only bide so much time before the AdMech demands the gene tithe, because they won't forget. If the gene-seed is not forthcoming and it doesn't look right, the Inquisition isn't going to forget either. Either the Chapter or the AdMech will have some record of the recorded gene-seed of the Chapter. My dog ate my gene-seed records might work for a chapter that is thousands of years old, but not for a shiny new Primaris chapter Someone(s) within the Chapter is going to have to know the truth as well in order to keep the story up and someone is going to have to keep well stocked in bogus gene-seed to keep the tale going as well.

 

Keep in mind, that very little (or none) of this information needs to be in your published IA. This is background that the author needs to maintain continuity. Many writers keep files of research and background material that never sees the light of day just for this purpose.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I agree that that the admech will get the gene seed eventually. I actually think that can be used as a story telling tool, for example part of why they are more "humanitarian" is because their lack of knowledge is a shadow hanging over them. In other word's they feel that they need to be above reproach in the imperial citizen's eyes and get into more conflicts than are good for them. Kinda like Sanguinius in the HH, where Logar doesn't feel that he would fall because being different drives him to be perfect.

 

I'm also not sure if they'll push the setting to far past this point in the future. I mean they retconned the dark imperium books to reduce the amount of time that passes (and even in that original timeline the rift still existed). So I think with a Primaris Chapter you have a bit more freedom because it's basically starting at the end times. 

[Gamiel]

Since the gene-seed vaults was opened up for Cawl could it be so that the Sons was created from the gene-seed of a Chapter that themself was of unknown origin (there are some after all) or the information about which Chapter whose gene-seed chamber was opened to create the Sons was lost ("The documents say this is chamber belongs to the Sisters of the Thorn Chapter, which there is no record of but there is a smaller Adepta Sororitas ordos with that name. It has not been given any new deliveries or any withdrawal in 2358 years, if the timestamps are correct. And the symbol on the door is: on green, a white panther incensed, or a wingless dragon breathing fire, holding something that could be a sceptre or mace, or something else. Under it is written, in high gothic, 'By bolter and blade'. We have found two chapters with similar symbols but they have different colours and is different in some of the details.")

Edited December 18, 2021 by Gamiel

[Brother Lunkhead]

I agree that that the admech will get the gene seed eventually. I actually think that can be used as a story telling tool, for example part of why they are more "humanitarian" is because their lack of knowledge is a shadow hanging over them. In other word's they feel that they need to be above reproach in the imperial citizen's eyes and get into more conflicts than are good for them. Kinda like Sanguinius in the HH, where Logar doesn't feel that he would fall because being different drives him to be perfect.

The AdMech/gene-seed angle can definitely be put to good use in your story As for their lack of knowledge as a motivator for being more humanitarian and above reproach in the eyes of Imperial citizens, that's fine, but it won't protect them against the powers that be. Being a young chapter, they have no powerful allies or strong political ties within the Imperial bureaucracy, and as they say in the grimdark future, it's a big galaxy, and no matter who you are, you will not be missed. They need a better plan, or an ace up their sleeve.

 

 

I'm also not sure if they'll push the setting to far past this point in the future. I mean they retconned the dark imperium books to reduce the amount of time that passes (and even in that original timeline the rift still existed). So I think with a Primaris Chapter you have a bit more freedom because it's basically starting at the end times. 

I agree that GW probably won't push too far into the future, but even with the retconned timeline, I'm not sure what you mean about a Primaris chapter having a bit more freedom because it's starting at the end times.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

If I make a homebrew that was part of the cursed founding. My timeline is going to go start in M35 and if I'm running primaris go pretty close to the present lore wise. So, if I make a decision to say they have traitor gene seed not only do I have to defend why it would be plausible, but I have to defend it in a way where they've survived thousands of years. That's incredibly difficult to pull off. Heck even explaining how they were made in the first place is going to be difficult. 

 

With a primaris chapter you don't have to defend any position for 1000s of years. Guilliman and Cawl argue about using the traitor gene seed to the point Guilliman already suspects Cawl's using it. So, the initial starting point is already 100 times more plausible than it's been in past. In my opinion that creates a lot of freedom for someone designing a chapter. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Brother Lunkhead]

If I make a homebrew that was part of the cursed founding. My timeline is going to go start in M35 and if I'm running primaris go pretty close to the present lore wise. So, if I make a decision to say they have traitor gene seed not only do I have to defend why it would be plausible, but I have to defend it in a way where they've survived thousands of years. That's incredibly difficult to pull off. Heck even explaining how they were made in the first place is going to be difficult. 

 

With a primaris chapter you don't have to defend any position for 1000s of years. Guilliman and Cawl argue about using the traitor gene seed to the point Guilliman already suspects Cawl's using it. So, the initial starting point is already 100 times more plausible than it's been in past. In my opinion that creates a lot of freedom for someone designing a chapter. 

My argument isn't against the use of traitor/lost primarch gene-seed (it's documented that both were available to Cawl). I'm advising creating them using a subtle approach to hinting at this possibility and having a story in your back pocket to explain how the chapter hides this. I still maintain that it's more plausible for an old chapter and nigh implausible for a new chapter not to know it's origin (at least in the higher command chain). My dog ate my gene records, or I just don't know are going to be huge red flags, and all the good deeds the Chapter does is not going to matter when the Ordo and the Grey Knights come knocking with an exterminatus order.

 

Keep in mind that within the 40K lore, that Cawl and even Guilliman are controversial characters that make controversial decisions, and many are suspicious of them and the Primaris. All have powerful enemies looking for weaknesses that they can exploit.

 

It's not really that difficult to create background to defend a chapter's origin, whether the chapter is old or new. I can provide some examples if you like, but I'd rather see what you come up with.

 

UPDATE:

Before we get into any kind of argument here, let me make myself clear to you especially Sivyour_M, this is your chapter, and you should build it as you see fit Everything I say here is just a suggestion and my opinion. Loyalists Space Marine chapters who's gene-seeds are derived from traitor or lost primarch are still controversial. My goal is to help you tighten up your story and make it a little more bulletproof to scrutiny from incredulous fraters and the INQUISITION

Edited December 19, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Cawl has complete control of what primaris marines initially know about Astartes. Why couldn't Cawl just not implant the knowledge of who their primarch was? As long as they know the correct rituals to extract geneseed, and make new recruits they'd be able to function. He kept a ton of them on Ice, so it's not like he couldn't make a chapter, and then send it out into the void as an experiment without them having any interactions with any one besides Cawls people.

 

It doesn't mean they wouldn't need to find it out, heck they'd probably be pretty desperate too (a recurring theme in the books with primaris is just how much they want to fit in). That desperation and the lack of experience could lead to them adopting the cultures of their chosen home world fast for a sense of identity.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Sivyour _M doesn't want his chapter to know their gene father it's not super hard to justify. 

[Brother Lunkhead]

Cawl has complete control of what primaris marines initially know about Astartes. Why couldn't Cawl just not implant the knowledge of who their primarch was? As long as they know the correct rituals to extract geneseed, and make new recruits they'd be able to function. He kept a ton of them on Ice, so it's not like he couldn't make a chapter, and then send it out into the void as an experiment without them having any interactions with any one besides Cawls people.

Cawl could probably do any and all of this, but ultimately to what end? I see no obvious benefits to Cawl or the Chapter and there are a lot of risks, of which I've pointed out. As for the last idea concerning an experimental chapter, that's an interesting idea, but doesn't seem to be what the Sons of Freyja is about.

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Sivyour _M doesn't want his chapter to know their gene father it's not super hard to justify. 

I agree, he can justify it. But it's a minor story point, that has been done to better effect with older chapters (Blood Ravens comes immediately to mind), and a big factor in that is that they are older and well-established chapters created at a different time under different political and historical dynamics. The risks outweigh the benefits.

 

I don't really have anything to add unless someone has a question, so I'd be interested in what Sevyour_M has to say

[Sivyour _M]

well gents i've been eating the preverbal popcorn  but i have updated the  gene seed section 

 

GENESEEED

 

Officially listed as a White Scar successor but even as Greyshields when posted with other units that are of the Great Khans gene line they never

could quite fit in with them. With little things, such they can ride a Astartes pattern bike as well as any other chapters marines, but not to the

standards as a White Scar and their more inclined to hold a defensive line than to lead a lighting fast charge the foe. It has called their lineage into 

question by the White Scars, but the Son's of Freyja themselves are not overly bothered as to their lineage for them it's enough to be able to serve the

All-Father. The similarities  between the the Cultures of the Sons of Freyja and the Space Wolves  has led to some to claim that they must be of leman

Russ' line, but Investigation into the Son's of Freyja Geneseed founding of the Space Wolves proves inconclusive especially considering the chapters

Geneseed shows no sign of the Canis Helix that is unique to all Sons of Russ.

on the 18th  

 

I still need to work on this I agree but I think I'm heading in the right direction for me, my thinking  the naughty tech boffin be it  Cawl or one of his lackys, (still not fully versed in the fully up to date lore I confess) see the scars as savage enough to cover some of there tracks with the  prier knowledge that the chapter was going to be base on the world lets face it unless  GW give us more info on the lost legions we know nothing on their attitudes ok Guilliman on a personnel level may recognize some attributes but  we are not privy to this. not that im saying that it was a lost Primarchs  geneseed just unknown

[Minigiant]

I agree, he can justify it. But it's a minor story point, that has been done to better effect with older chapters (Blood Ravens comes immediately to mind), and a big factor in that is that they are older and well-established chapters created at a different time under different political and historical dynamics. The risks outweigh the benefits.

 

I am very much in this camp too.

 

As the old adage goes in writing 'So what' and 'Who cares', aspects that do not add anything to the core tenant/theme of the chapter just need to be scraped. We as writers become way too attached to our words. It is okay, they can be deleted.