Blood Claws vs. Grey Hunters

[Filius]

Hjolda!

 

I know, I know … Primaris is the name of the game currently, but I do have so many unbuilt Firstborn and still need some Troop-Choices, so I'll just build some of Blood Claws or Grey Hunters. But looking at the Datasheets, I got a bit confused: Blood Claws and Grey Hunters cost the same (I'm only playing by Powerlevel) and have pretty much the same stats. Blood Claws have the advantage of another attack on the charge, while Grey Hunters have the wolf standard to help them charge. But on the other hand they have access to special weapons. So it seems to me like the question would be: Do I want something to charge and hit like hell, or do I want something to take and hold objectives (I do have 3 unpainted Rhinos/Razorbacks, too) and in the later case, maybe charge at some point?

 

Would you agree to that, or did I miss something about the current state of Blood Claws and Grey Hunters?

 

Ah and: I already do have a pack of 15 Blood Claws to charge across the battle field, hehe, which is quite fun in most games.

 

As always: Thanks in advance for any help or just taking the time to read this!

Edited December 9, 2021 by Filius

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think you've got a good idea of how they both fit in. For what it's worth they're both solid troop choices, heck blood claws have shown up in some competitive lists. I'd pretty much just recommend going with rule of cool. 

[Karhedron]

Hunters have Boltguns so will typically get more shots off at range. Claws have extra melee attacks. Personally I like Hunters with a special weapon or two in a Razorback as my battle-line units. They are cheap, ObjSec and can be effective against a variety of targets.

 

They will not take on Elite units but I find they usually have just enough of an edge to win against other Troop units.

[TiguriusX]

BC are cheap and effective as pure SW

 

I think they are a great troop choice and can tear through enemy units based on buckets of dice (21 chain swords hitting on 2 is doing damage and can be buffed by assault doctrine...savage strike or rage...wulfen stone).

 

Outflank them or drop them in pods for super aggressive 7" charge combos with a chaplain

 

Many SW only stopped using them bc successor BCs lose the berserk charge bonus attack and get replaced by incursors for turn 1 charge.

 

GH are less useful bc you have to spend extra for chainswords and wolf banners in match play.

 

Yes they have bolters but if they shoot bolters they make it harder to charge their target so it isnt that much better.

[Filius]

Okay! Thanks everybody! I missed the Bolters indeed, and as I currently don't have so much firepower and three Rhinos/Razorbacks, I think I'll continue with those.

 

My first 15 Blood Claws proved to be fun and effective in the last games. They hacked themselves through three White Scars Primaris Bikers, a Rhino and it's cargo of 10 tactical marines (although they had some help from their wolf priest, hehe).

[SvenIronhand]

I'm leaning towards Grey Hunters for my Firstborn Space Wolves. Blood Claws are all well and good, but they lack the versatility Grey Hunters bring. Think of GHs not necessarily as a melee unit, but a Tactical Squad + that can serve in an anti-infantry melee role if need be. 

[Karhedron]

I agree very much with both posters above. If you want something that can spearhead a charge, then Claws are the unit for you.

 

On the other hand if you want something to hold Objectives but can also duke it out with other units a bit more effectively than other Troops units, Hunters are the best choice. I don't think either unit is inherently superior but they both have slightly different roles.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Charging those BCs into the opponent's transport during assault doctrine and shredding the vehicle and everything inside of it is so much fun.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I will say that unless your chasing the meta or have clearly defined role for your troops, that mixing and matching different troop choices makes sense. Blood claws are really good at one thing, which is nice but whether or not you need three units may depend on what other choices you have. I only bring it up because I think us gamers, have tendency to rate units in a vacuum which doesn't always reflect how things are going to play out.

[Filius]

I will say that unless your chasing the meta or have clearly defined role for your troops, that mixing and matching different troop choices makes sense. Blood claws are really good at one thing, which is nice but whether or not you need three units may depend on what other choices you have. I only bring it up because I think us gamers, have tendency to rate units in a vacuum which doesn't always reflect how things are going to play out.

Oh, yeah, that's most  certainly a point! I only do have the 5 Assault Intercessors from the Recruit Edition Box as the other troop choice and together with the Blood Claws they are a bit slow when it comes to taking objectives, esp. as my current only opponent is my Godson and his White Scars army, hehe. So looking for something to put in a Rhino or Razoback seemed reasonable to me. But … the only other units I do have by now are 5 Terminators with Lightning Claws and 5 Terminators with Stormbolter and Powerfists, which prooved quite well to take objectives. So the plan to take either more Blood Claws or Grey Hunters comes mostly from that fact, that I just do have so many unbuilt Firstborn and the Rhinos/Razorbacks and like building and painting them a lot.

 

But I have to admit, that I also did it because the Battalion Detachment seemed to me more or less unavoidable when going towards 100 PL. Which of course is nonsense. I'll seriously reconsider the detachments again.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

If you have a lot of grey hunter kits, you should look at other options as well because those kits came with a bunch a of fun stuff. 

 

1) Company Veterans (marine codex) - the company vets aren't as customizable as wolf guard but have a special bodyguard rule, and one squad won't take up an elite slot if you have a wolf lord. Most people were just running them to do actions, but if you're looking to use a razorback a squad of five and a character could be pretty good.

 

2) Wolf Guard - They're more customizable than the company vets, most people run them with jump packs. You can get those separate from GW's webstore if you want them but if you're not playing competitive, they would be fine in a transport. You would have to run a battalion though if you ran them with 2 squads of termies. 

 

3) SkyClaws - They're basically just blood claws with jump packs. I'd only really suggest this if you have a few GH kits, because there is a certain point where you just have enough troops. The jump pack kits that GW has on the webstore aren't very expensive (little over $8 in the US for 5). 

 

4) Long fangs - you can mix and match with the devastator kit. I'm not as familiar with new dev kit, but it comes with enough extra weapons and arms that should be able to use all of the options without too much effort.

 

I know that's a lot to think about, but our troop box is really flexible.  

[Filius]

If you have a lot of grey hunter kits, you should look at other options as well because those kits came with a bunch a of fun stuff. 

 

1) Company Veterans (marine codex) - the company vets aren't as customizable as wolf guard but have a special bodyguard rule, and one squad won't take up an elite slot if you have a wolf lord. Most people were just running them to do actions, but if you're looking to use a razorback a squad of five and a character could be pretty good.

 

2) Wolf Guard - They're more customizable than the company vets, most people run them with jump packs. You can get those separate from GW's webstore if you want them but if you're not playing competitive, they would be fine in a transport. You would have to run a battalion though if you ran them with 2 squads of termies. 

 

3) SkyClaws - They're basically just blood claws with jump packs. I'd only really suggest this if you have a few GH kits, because there is a certain point where you just have enough troops. The jump pack kits that GW has on the webstore aren't very expensive (little over $8 in the US for 5). 

 

4) Long fangs - you can mix and match with the devastator kit. I'm not as familiar with new dev kit, but it comes with enough extra weapons and arms that should be able to use all of the options without too much effort.

 

I know that's a lot to think about, but our troop box is really flexible.  

Oh, yes, yes, that's the reason, why I do have so many, hehe. I really love the Firstborn kits. Wolf Guard with Jump Packs, Skyclaws and Long Fangs are definitely on the road map, I already do have sets (Assault Marines and Devastors) and separate Jump Packs to mix and match those.

 

But I actually hadn't seen the Company Veterans yet. I'll give them a closer look to. Thanks a lot!