New project : Iron Snakes list

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Greetings, Battle-Brothers !

 

I'm currently starting to build a new list, focused on the Iron Snakes chapter :)

 

As some of you might know, they are not your standard Codex Astartes compliant chapter, therefore I have a bit of trouble establishing something that might match the standards of battleforged list AND also being somewhat right lorewise....

The trick is that they essentially use 10-men squads rather than 100-men companies, so they have a very strong skirmish feeling about the way they fight. These squads are relatively independant from one another, and can even split in 5/5 men squads to achieve missions.

 

I'm going through the SM codex atm, trying to figure out what units to choose and what options among the (way too) vast list available I could go with... Especially with basic troops... Nothing seems to help me get a good Iron Snakes feeling about equipement/squad composition...

 

I was thinking about starting with 4 squads of 10, 2 Tactics and 2 Intercessors, which would allow me to equip most of them with either melee or heavy/specialist weapons (IS do love 'em ^^).

 

I'll also need to think about Elites, as IS use a bit more Apothicaries than other chapters...

 

Anyway, if someone has ideas, I'd be very interested to read them :D

 

Thank you Brothers ! For Ithaka !!!

[Charybdis]

Have you considered running them with Death Watch rules?

 

I believe they can run squads made up of different units to give you that mixed arms specialists in smaller units feel that your looking for. 

 

I remember they have a mixed heavy weapons group so I'm sure they have something similar for melee. 

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Have you considered running them with Death Watch rules?

 

I believe they can run squads made up of different units to give you that mixed arms specialists in smaller units feel that your looking for.

 

I remember they have a mixed heavy weapons group so I'm sure they have something similar for melee.

 

Hold on, wait a minute ! You can run a successor chapter with ruling from DW ?? Is this even battleforge compliant ?? I'm not aware of how SM armies work (first time I'll do one) so I'm a bit stunned by what you said xD

 

Could you please enlighten me, good Sir ? :)

Edited December 12, 2021 by Magos Guilderius Davvarel

[tinpact]

I think Charybdis meant running them as counts-as Deathwatch. As far as I can tell this paragraph:

If your successor Chapter does not have a known founding Chapter but has the Inheritors of the Primarch Successor Tactic, it is a successor of the Chapter whose Chapter Tactic you selected. Otherwise, select a First Founding Chapter that best fits your Chapters character.

makes Deathwatch ineligible to have successors. Still, I second the idea - Ultramarines would be the "canon-compliant" way to go, but rerolls don't quite cover the unique composition of the Iron Snakes.

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

I'm not sure the fact that IS are Ultra successors is the problem here. Being successors, several tactics look very compatible with them.

I'm more concerned by the troops that can be chosen to create a battleforged list : Tactical are a good choice as they allow the use of heavy/special weapons ; but they have very limited melee options :-/

On the opposite, Intercessors and Assault Intercessors can use melee and/or shooting weapons, but they'll lack heavy/special weapons (except for gre-launcher but not really lorewise compliant in the case of IS)...

 

I'm not sure if I make myself clear xD

[Charybdis]

Apologies for not being clear Magos.

 

The DeathWatch have no successors, but in terms of being able to play your Iron Snakes as close to their lore as possible, i.e small mixed units. Then I think the DeathWatch Kill Team style of play will suit them much more than any codex compliant chapter.

I literally mean paint up your army as Iron Snakes then run them with the DeathWatch codex.

 

For example a Fortis Kill Team is 10 man squad made up of 1 Sergeant 4 intercessors and then you can choose from any of the following options to make up the numbers - Outriders, Assault Intercessors, Hellblasters (your heavy weapons option).

 

Kill Team Spectrus starts with an Infiltrator Sergeant and 4 infiltrators but you can then add Incursors, reivers and Eliminators.

 

They have more options for mixing and matching units but these are the two I remember.

 

Special Issue Ammunition can change the strength and characteristics of a units bolters for a CP, which I thought may further enhance the feeling of running a mixed combat squad with different strengths rather than the more traditional codex compliant chapters or their successors. 

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Apologies for not being clear Magos.

 

The DeathWatch have no successors, but in terms of being able to play your Iron Snakes as close to their lore as possible, i.e small mixed units. Then I think the DeathWatch Kill Team style of play will suit them much more than any codex compliant chapter.

I literally mean paint up your army as Iron Snakes then run them with the DeathWatch codex.

 

For example a Fortis Kill Team is 10 man squad made up of 1 Sergeant 4 intercessors and then you can choose from any of the following options to make up the numbers - Outriders, Assault Intercessors, Hellblasters (your heavy weapons option).

 

Kill Team Spectrus starts with an Infiltrator Sergeant and 4 infiltrators but you can then add Incursors, reivers and Eliminators.

 

They have more options for mixing and matching units but these are the two I remember.

 

Special Issue Ammunition can change the strength and characteristics of a units bolters for a CP, which I thought may further enhance the feeling of running a mixed combat squad with different strengths rather than the more traditional codex compliant chapters or their successors. 

Ooooooh !   Sorry, really got off-tracks on this, my bad !   I understand now what you meant That is a very good advice indeed, I'll try to check this !

 

In the meantime, I'm considering creating my own chapter for my project, which is basically to create 2 armies based on a similar thematic ie ancient greece My FW Akmon is largely based on this, and the Iron Snakes are very close

But I might consider creating a "secret" chapter of unknown founding, created on Akmon to serve as reinforcements for the Tech-Priests there. Something like a shadowy successor of the Iron Hands, a bit like the "Steel Confessors" chapter ? Alrealdy have a name : Anvil's Sons (from the iconography and name of Akmon, meaning "anvil" in old greek^^)

 

Well, plenty to think about for the weeks to come, thanks a lot Brothers !

The Emperor Protects ! Praise The Omnissiah !

Edited December 13, 2021 by Magos Guilderius Davvarel

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

After several judicious advices and having hesitated with going for a more norse mythology aspect (and going Space Wolves at the same time), I finally decided to keep on going with my initial project :)

 

So I'll try to build a decent DW list for playing the Iron Snakes, and I'll work harder on the background of my custom FW while waiting for my stuff to be moved to our new house :)

 

There's a point of lore that I believe being cannon that bothers me though : IS are said to have been founded during the Secound Founding (thus being what we call a Successor Chapter) == they were once part of the initial XIII Legion, correct ? However, fandom page states IS chapter "was created in the Second Founding using the gene-seed of the Primarch Roboute Guilliman"

I'm confused : I thought what are called Second Founding chapters were initially composed of original members from the primogenitor chapter.... Am I missing something here ?

Not that it's THAT important but, for the sake of being lore-wise, my custom FW needs to be included as seamlessly as possible in our beloved univers :D

 

Thanks to all of you Curators who'll be able to bring answers to this question !

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

There's a point of lore that I believe being cannon that bothers me though : IS are said to have been founded during the Secound Founding (thus being what we call a Successor Chapter) == they were once part of the initial XIII Legion, correct ? However, fandom page states IS chapter "was created in the Second Founding using the gene-seed of the Primarch Roboute Guilliman"

I'm confused : I thought what are called Second Founding chapters were initially composed of original members from the primogenitor chapter.... Am I missing something here ?

Not that it's THAT important but, for the sake of being lore-wise, my custom FW needs to be included as seamlessly as possible in our beloved univers

Second Founding chapters were indeed created directly from the division of the original First Founding Legions. Official lore did not always list the Iron Snakes as a second founding chapter, but it was long speculated among fan sites that they were descended from the Ultramarines. It wasn't until fairly recently that the IS was listed as a successor chapter in official lore. Even in the original Dan Abnett novel, Brothers of the Snake (adapted and supplemented from his original Inferno! short stories) no direct references were made to their relation to the Ultramarines or Roboute Guilliman. It was merely stated that they revered "The Primarch". So, second founding status for the IS is a retcon of sorts, but it doesn't contradict any older lore.

 

I suppose the original Iron Snakes might have immediately bolstered their ranks using RG's gene seed, or that some of the members were neophytes and not yet full space marines. So, it's not unreasonable to think that there might be some validity to the fan site statement. However, it's safe to say that the bulk (if not all) original members were drawn directly from the XIII Legion's ranks.

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

I thank you for these informations, Brother !

Yes I've read plenty of excellent reviews about this novel from Master Abnett, I'm actually waiting to have moved to our new house to buy a few books, this one being on the list.

 

So I'll assume they've been directly a Second Fondation Chapter, and polish my FWs lore accordingly.

 

A last question, if you don't mind :

 

but it was long speculated among fan sites that they were descended from the Ultramarines

What are the best reliable fan sites these days ? I'm looking for lore-oriented ones, mostly :)

 

Thanks again !

The Emperor Protects !

[Brother Lunkhead]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this. There's a lot of fan lore, lists, story reviews, etc. out there on the interwebs. Here's a short list of sites and YouTube channels you can link to. That should get you started.

 

• Iron Snakes | Warhammer 40k Wiki | Fandom
• Iron Snakes (Novel Series) | Warhammer 40k Wiki | Fandom
• Iron Snakes - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
• 48 50K: Iron Snakes ideas in 2022 | space marine, warhammer 40k, warhammer (pinterest.com)
• Warhammer 40k Lore - Iron Snakes, Space Marine Chapters - YouTube
• WHTV Tip of the Day - Iron Snakes Power Armour - YouTube
• Warhammer 40k Lore and History: Iron Snakes of Ithaka Space marines / Adeptus Astartes - YouTube
• 40 Facts and Lore on the Iron Snakes Warhammer 40K Spacemarine - YouTube

You may be familiar with some or all of these. These are just some that I've viewed and like. There are also a lot of discussion boards beyond the B&C (ours is the best of course), but I generally look at these with a critical eye, since you find a lot of wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumors and lack of official citation that can muddy the waters. However, from time to time you can find a few idea gems as well.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on your project.

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Thank you very much Brother ! No need to apologize, I know the weird ways of the Warp on astropathic communications ;) Plus our moving is nearly over (receiving the stuff tomorrow), so I'm not even close to get back to painting before a few days !

 

I appreciate the share, I indeed know a few, but not all of them so that's very welcome :)

 

I'll try to keep up with this asap of course !

 

The Emperor Protects !