waterslide transfers... what am I doing wrong?

[Tiger9gamer]

this year is the first time I really did waterslide transfers, and so far it's a nightmare. The decals get folded on themselves, slide down after I place them, move in stupid ways or get stuck. What am I doing wrong? I have micro sol and set, and followed the directions at every step and it's still miserable.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I usually don't have trouble with them, but I can explain what I do.

 

I make sure there is a good gloss varnish on the part I'm putting the transfer on. Then I'll typically I cut them as normal, and then wet them with water using a brush until they are saturated and come off the paper. Before I do that, if they're circular, sometimes I cut a small slit to give it room to move in instead of folding on itself.

 

Then I put microset on the varnished area, place the decal on it and then maneuver the decal with a brush. You don't need too much microset (they'll slide if the surface is too wet), and once they're placed, you can take off some of the liquid. If it stops moving, add a little more microset and try to get underneath the decal.

 

After that, you want to wait for the microset to dry before moving on to microsol. You don't want to put on too much microsol, and you'll probably need to do 2-3 applications, waiting for it to dry in between. You can use a brush to kind of massage the decal a bit when doing this to work out bubbles and all, although you don't want to do that too much, as you don't want to tear it.

Edited December 19, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Rik Lightstar]

Everything Wrath of the Lion said...

 

Plus,

 

Take your time with it, you have a fair amount of "working time" with decals.

 

I use cotton swabs to move and smooth the decals around. I prefer that they're that little bit firmer than a brush and you can roll them over a decal to smooth out air bubbles.

 

Microsol will let you correct pretty much any issue with bubbles as long as you have the decal in the right place.

 

One of my most used hobby tools is a hairdryer it speeds up the drying process for whatever it is you're working on.

 

Rik

[Tiger9gamer]

thanks a ton for the help, I need to try this all next time. my family can attest that I get grumpy when working with fiddly bits like this

[Rik Lightstar]

Final tip, do your decals before any weathering.

 

If there's any spots that you just couldn't get right, then voila, that's where your weathing goes.

 

Rik

[Arkhanist]

Further to what everyone else said; patience, and tweezers. You need to let the paper get good and wet first, otherwise the transfer will not come off smoothly. Once it's fully soaked, I use teeny tiny tweezers to grip the paper backing and get into position, then a q-tip to slide the transfer off the wet paper onto the microset damp (not soaked) shoulder pad etc. If the waterslide catches or folds on itself, it can be unfolded with either the tweezers (if sharp pointed) or *very gently* with the tip of a hobby knife.

 

If it is marine shoulder pads and not say, IG tank markings, I can recommend using pre-made ones such as pop-goes-the monkey 3d printed ones with chapter and company markings. Much easier!

Edited December 19, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Dang I hate hearing about water decal struggles; they are nearly my favorite thing about miniature hobbying when done right.  If you have the magic potions (the micros) then I think that there are still a few things that might help, although a steady hand and a bit of finesse are still needed unfortunately, which comes with practice.

 

--use a dedicated paintbrush, like a standard base-coat size, to lift the transfer out of the cup it's soaking in.  I find tweezers too sharp and I have a bad track record with them, personally, although individual experiences may differ.

 

--when you soak the decal, use a small dish and a VERY small amount of microset in the cup.  If you use too much, it will be harder to retrieve from the glass using your paint brush. 

 

--The longer a decal soaks, the more fold-y it will get which can make it much more challenging to position, so I tend to watch the decal like a hawk the moment it goes in the cup, and make sure it's soaked completely but then I use the brush to gently loosen it from it's paper, so that it still retains a bit of stiffness that prevents the worst of the folding issue.

 

--I use the brush to push it into place to dry before using microset.  I push it VERY slowly, as it is easy to overpush and then over correct and you can do that for way too long without getting it centered well (especially true for shoulder decals).

 

--I find that microsol works best when the decal is still almost wet and just barely adhering to the surface already.  I apply microsol very liberally, and reapply as many times as I need, and sometimes use a rubber sculpting tool to push down parts gently that still stand up.

 

--I don't use any gloss to smooth the surface before I apply, and I use lahmian medium to tamp down the gloss and make the decal look matte once it's try. 

 

--Finally, how old are the decals you're using?  In my experience the older GW transfers are a lot less friendly to use and I don't know if that's because in some cases I have some that are like 20 years old or because they are using a slightly different material to make them now.  In any case, if you have fresh GW transfers, you will have better luck.  If you are using 3rd party ones, they tend to work pretty well too, but you need to often be very meticulous to not cut too much extra around their edges because that can make it harder to lay flat on a curved surface.

 

That's all the tips I have. 

[jaxom]

One thing I've been doing lately is soaking the decal for about 30 seconds in water, removing it, and placing it on a paper towel. Excess water is wicked away. After about a minute of sitting I gently test the adhesion to the backing paper. If it's still stuck, I give it another dip-and-wick cycle. I do this until the decal is loose. I've found this results in a stiffer decal so it doesn't flop around or fold as much. The down side is that it takes more microsol cycles to get it flat on curved surfaces.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Everything WrathofTheLion said was pretty much spot on.

 

what I do differently is:

 

Always dip my decals in a body of water and leave them till they are soft enough. A small plate or bowl is perfect for this. (EDIT: don’t leave the decals so long that they separate from the backing paper. 30-45 secs in warm water should be sufficient).

 

Use warm to slightly warmer water. The more warm the water is, the quicker the decal will soften.

 

After initially applying the decal over the desired surface I reapply micro set on top.. essentially following the instructions. I then always pressed flat with a damp cotton bud. Wait about 5 minutes and apply light to medium pressure very slowly. If the decal has been on and in place for >15 minutes I sometimes roll the cotton bud if necessary to flatten out wrinkles. You really need to exercise caution with that though, you don’t want to shift or tear the decal.

 

The instructions on Microsol say not to touch the decal after applied because it will become very soft. While that’s true, I feel “don’t attempt to move” would have been more accurate. I also tend to press on the decals after they are microsol’d with a damp Cotten bud to ensure they are entirely flat against the surface. 
 

Multiple applications of microsol can aid in getting the clear sections to “melt” away leaving only the design.

Use the right tools. tweezers, tooth picks, in addition to brushes are your friends. There’s even a place for hobby knifes, if you’re careful.

 

Lastly, your frustrations are warranted as GW has not made it easy for you. GW decals are awful. They are thick and even for me someone who is a model hobby veteran, they can be more difficult to work with. Forge world on the other hand has excellent transfers that are a pleasure to work with. They are pricey, but I HIGHLY recommend them if you have the disposable money.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Tiger9gamer]

a lot of time but I finally tried again. Got a few really good decals on but I still feel like I am still doing something wrong. I dunked the cut outs in water, let sit for a while, put a very thin layer of microset on... but it's getting the transfers off thats the issue. The really big ones I used fold in on themselves if not done perfectly, and once folded I just cannot fix it. I wasted half a sheet of templar decals (3rd party) and still couldn't get all of them to land correctly

[Bryan Blaire]

Are you lifting them out of the water on their backing with tweezers and then getting the excess off by putting the backing down on a paper towel, wicking the big drops away, before trying to set them up to slide off the backing into the Microset spot on the model?

 

Also, on bigger things, I usually get the decal on the backing pretty much exactly where I want it over the Microset, and then I push the bottom edge down onto the Microset area and actually pull the backing out from under the decal slowly and let the decal settle onto surface.  I also make sure that I don’t put mounds of Microset onto the surface, just a little to help things get set down in a thin layer, and then I carefully roll the Q-tips over the decals to push all the air bubbles out and get the liquid up.

 

I always liked this explanation of a process

but you are probably going to have to modify and figure out what really works for you personally.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Wait, are you using The Mighty Brush decals by any chance?

[Tiger9gamer]

Wait, are you using The Mighty Brush decals by any chance?

yea, I am. Are they notorious by any chance?

 

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The fanboys on the BT FB group love them. I think they're utter rubbish. They curl more than any transfers I have ever used from any manufacturer, I find them incredibly frustrating, so I wouldn't blame your technique too much. Have a go with some of the GW transfers and see if the results are as bad.

 

A bit of guidance someone gave me with the Mighty Brush ones is to try warmer water?

[sibomots]

For prep of a serious decal (where I have a limited number of them), I'll find some un-wanted decals and do some 'wet-runs' (practicing the maneuver a couple of times on some plastic -- helps me get the timing right, soak-time right, etc.. gets my expectations set of how much I can nudge it before I tear the decal, etc..)

 

 

I found success by using as little time as possible in the 'wet before slide'.   I get my tools out in advance.  A soft tweezer, a 2/0 brush.  Everything out and ready like an operation since this decal-stuff is so time sensitive.

 

I dab the landing site of the model with micro-sol. Using a paint brush.  The landing site is a bubble of liquid just waiting for the decal. I use an excess of liquid on the landing site. I want the decal to eventually float on that surface tension.

 

Then,

 

I literally just get the decal wet for about  only 10 seconds, then dip in some micro-sol for a sec, then use the brush to nudge it off the paper. Tweezers never touch the decal.

 

I hold the paper right up at the plastic model surface.  (Like I'm sliding a pizza off a pan onto a plate) .  The decal literally slides off the paper onto the model.  I don't try to place the decal perfectly on the model at first.  It doesn't have a chance to flip or fold.. It's either on the paper or touching the model.

 

The other mistake I made before was not glossing up the landing site before the whole process.  I think there was some discussion (and I cannot find it at the moment).    Everything said so far -- totally good.   I opine simply that the decal is either on paper, or on the plastic, never a chance in between for it to fold since it's always attached to something (paper or plastic).

 

In my last BT vow business I put the decals on but the painted surface was too matte texture so the border around the decal showed.  Next time I think I'll gloss up that landing site a bit better before the decal slide.

 

What do I know.  I still fumble around with it.

[Son of Sacrifice]

 

 

Wait, are you using The Mighty Brush decals by any chance?

yea, I am. Are they notorious by any chance?

 

Mate those Mighty Brush decals are on a whole other level of tedious. Previous advice does not apply. They are incredibly difficult to work with. Beautiful though.

 

Go and do some GW decals and I predict you'll have no trouble.

 

Actually I printed my own decals and they were tricky like the MB decals, I'd imagine it's down to the not so premium quality of the paper. I heard that GW and FW decals are incredibly expensive to produce, which is why there are some sheets they never reprinted once sold out, such as the blackshields.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Son of Sacrifice

[Tiger9gamer]

 

 

Wait, are you using The Mighty Brush decals by any chance?

yea, I am. Are they notorious by any chance?

 

Mate those Mighty Brush decals are on a whole other level of tedious. Previous advice does not apply. They are incredibly difficult to work with. Beautiful though.

 

Go and do some GW decals and I predict you'll have no trouble.

 

Actually I printed my own decals and they were tricky like the MB decals, I'd imagine it's down to the not so premium quality of the paper. I heard that GW and FW decals are incredibly expensive to produce, which is why there are some sheets they never reprinted once sold out, such as the blackshields.

 

Alright, I think I get my issues now lol. Still, I am getting the hang of it, though GW decals are leagues better. I like decking out my tanks in them though, so that is a plus.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Microsol, Microset & matte varnish do some magickal things. You’ll get there eventually.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Tiger, don't soak them in water, soak them in white vinegar or MicroSet in a small dish, they should come right off after 30-60 seconds, use an old paint brush to lift it out of the water and to put it on the model.  I think the acid will help loosen from the transfer paper and adhere to the model immediately. 

 

I haven't used might brush decals but i have some old decals I try to use sometimes (like 20-30 year old ones) and it's a bit hit or miss how those turn out.  So I too would recommend using some newer GW transfers on something just to see if you can get results you're happy with on those.  That should give you a sense of whether you need to practice more or if you're just working with sub-par decals. 

 

Even with sub-par, there are ways to make them look good--sometimes you need to paint a bit around the clear border, or use a hobby knife to scratch it up to look like battle damage (if it's already not looking great) that can actually really save a sub-par transfer. 

[Ammonius]

I have put a thin piece of open cell foam in a shallow dish (what works well is the bubble of a blister pack and the foam pad that comes with it) and then put just enough water in the dish so that the foam isn't floating, but conducts the water to the surface, sort of like a wet palette for paint. I have had pretty good luck with tweezers though, so this method may not be what you want to do.

 

Either way, good luck 

[jaxom]

Self-closing tweezers can be helpful if one has difficulties keeping one's grip steady.

[winterdyne]

About a decade ago, I wrote this. Should help.

 

https://www.winterdyne.co.uk/maz/winterdyne_tutorial_3.pdf

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by winterdyne