The spread of Toxic Negativity in the B&C community

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't think there needs to be a structured policy to prevent opinions that differ from you. If the post is off topic, then it's off topic and should be covered by the existing rules. If it's a thread that allows for disagreement, dislike, etc., then it's on topic and shouldn't be restricted, because they don't need to conform to someone else's opinion. What that means though, is that if you want to talk about something without that, the topic should be constructed to make that definitively off topic, which usually shouldn't be hard. If someone decides that they want a topic where that discussion is included, then ignore that topic, it's not a discussion you are interested in.

 

As for the content of what you're saying, I personally agree, I don't see any reason they would change much if sales are still strong. We've even seen things from Legends get brought back (Captain on Bike), so we'll have to see. Certain factions, especially Dark Angels as you mention, are going to need a lot to even consider changing that, so it can't be any time in the near future if ever.

Edited January 6, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well it should universal for all factions… which I find is often is not the case for whatever reason — this is of course is my experience.

[Master Commander Ajax]

As for the content of what you're saying, I personally agree, I don't see any reason they would change much if sales are still strong.

Interestingly according to the last White Dwarf I read the old Space Marine Tactical Squad remains the biggest selling box set.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Here is my take on this subject (long) …

 

First I’d like to get these thoughts off my chest so to speak. Be aware I’m mostly addressing the hate I often see directed toward Primaris Space Marines which ‘in my opinion’ is unfounded. I’m aware there is staff here that feel this way… maybe quite a bit. To me it seems often is okay to slag Primaris for whatever reason - this is what I often see here. What I would like to see is a structured policy in place to prevent it. There is no evidence geedub intends to drop firstborn but obviously they aren’t getting much new attention which makes sense to me. Generally speaking Primaris are quite popular now and this is the new direction and has been since they first dropped at the beginning of eighth edition. Like I just said I don’t see firstborn going away as long as they continue to provide a viable amount of sales. Look at the new Dark Angels codex -> is all about firstborn units. Many of the most competitive units are firstborn… Vanguard Veterans, MMAB, assault Terminators, smash captains, etc. Now look how dismal has been the market response to the new Gladiators and Storm Speeders — not every new Primaris unit goes over well. Reivers… need I say more ?

 

Eventually there will be a new Primaris unit, it’s going to happen. The Gravis Captain with a chainsword seemed to be well received here. Do I like every Primaris unit… no I don’t actually but I don’t spend much time thinking about those ones either — because like I said eventually something else will come along. Just look at all the new units Orks got, much more overall than eighth edition which geedub said was the best Ork codex ever lol. I’m not a big fan of aeldari in general but I don’t go out of my way to slag them either.

 

We can reimagine how Primaris might have been released in regards to lore but really at the end of the day they are the same thing and nothing will change that about them. So some level of tolerance would be appreciated by me. That is pretty much all I have to say and I’m glad I said it too.

 

 

I can't speak to the opinions of all the Frater here who dislike Primaris or their reasons, but to my knowledge I am the only member of the Moderation team who harbors a strong dislike of Primaris so your "staff...that feel this way...maybe quite a bit" is an incorrect assumption.  I mention it only when the conversation warrants it, and my dislike is based entirely on their lore entry into the universe rather than their models or rules -- which I have few complaints about it.  I've always said that if Primaris had been introduced simply as a re-scaling of the Space Marine line, I'd have had zero issues with them.  For proof, I can show pictures of all the new re-scaled Chaos Marine units that I have purchased and painted (I have two Havoc Squads completed, a SC! CSM Squad converted into Berzerkers, and a CSM Squad currently WIP).  Exactly why I feel this way about Primaris however is irrelevant to the topic at hand and I'd be more than welcome to hash that out privately if you'd prefer.

 

As for your expressed desire for a "structured policy in place to prevent" criticism of the Primaris line. . . well.  Frankly, I think that's a ludicrous suggestion.  Primaris are part of the lore of the game, they're part of the model range.  They are for all intents and purposes the future of the Space Marine line development.  Censoring criticism of the single best-selling line in the entire game?  Really?  If someone starts disparaging Primaris in a thread and you feel it's off-topic, report the comment and let the staff handle it -- or just use your Block button.  If someone disparages another Frater, definitely report that because attacking other posters is a direct violation of forum rules.  But wanting the staff to shut down hobby-relevant discussion because you don't like the opposing viewpoint?  Not going to happen.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There are definitely other staff that have expressed negative feelings towards the Primaris line. In regard to their lore, which is often cited here in general… Is it because it makes Marines essentially vanilla clones and detracts from their flaws and character, which are essential parts of story and development? Or because it was a badly written, cheesily plotted, lore breaking, and and an attempt to sell all new miniatures? Sure the original lore could have been better thought out instead of what appeared to be an after thought. I think it was going to happen irregardless in order to revamp the line.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Which isn't really a problem, so long as it's not off topic and isn't doing wrong personally to those that do outside of the rules.

 

I personally see two problems here, the first that some may post that criticism in an off topic manner, derailing a thread that shouldn't be, and the second that others takes offense or personalize that another person dislikes something they do.

 

I.e., it's one thing to say something about a miniature line, dislike how it was handled, its aesthetics, what it means to the lore, how gameplay is affected, etc., that's not an issue and they have a right to that opinion, and the right to say it as long as it's in context. However, saying something improper about someone that does like them (disagrees with them) then would become a problem.

Edited January 6, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Scribe]

There are definitely other staff that have expressed negative feelings towards the Primaris line. In regard to their lore, which is often cited here in general… Is it because it makes Marines essentially vanilla clones and detracts from their flaws and character, which are essential parts of story and development? Or because it was a badly written, cheesily plotted, lore breaking, and and an attempt to sell all new miniatures? Sure the original lore could have been better thought out instead of what appeared to be an after thought. I think it was going to happen irregardless in order to revamp the line.

 

I mean do you really want a list of the negatives?

[Brother Lunkhead]

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This topic has run its course

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Edited January 7, 2022 by Brother Lunkhead