The spread of Toxic Negativity in the B&C community

[lansalt]

I think every one of the well know places to post about 40k has its strengths and weaknesses for somebody looking for 40k content and discussions (Yes, even 4chan). For what I've seen, Dakka's moderation is somewhat permissive and unfortunately heated arguments/"bad" posters usually run for too long for my patience, even if there's a lot of great discussions otherwise there.

 

For me 40k is meant to be a fun interesting hobby in my free time, not aggravating therapy sessions with strangers, so I chose the B&C to post because I saw the tone here being far more "mature" (for lack of a better word), even when users strongly disagree about something.

[Captain Idaho]

Best thing about the B&C is the topic subjects are often the most important focus for moderation so if you ask a specific question or have a particular subject you want to discuss you likely got it cleanly.

[phandaal]

Let's not twist things. Criticising a company and everything they produce is not an attack on the people who work for them.

 

They're not acting on their own accord or a personal capacity and you're totally guessing their motivations.

The people who go after criticizers are almost never even employees of the company being criticized, much less employees who might be directly responsible for whatever is being criticized. They are just fans and customers like the rest of us.

Edited December 29, 2021 by phandaal

[Azekai]

 

...

and again, the block function is still handy, is the Jeske still here?? 

 

 

...

 

Back to the discussion at hand, I think part of the problem is expressing negative opinions is being tarred as toxic. What does toxic even mean? It seems like a weasel word. It may be construed as toxic = abuse, but it more often seems to be used to describe 'thing I don't like' = toxic. There is a lack of precision in the language that seems intentionally vague. I think most of us can agree the criticisms leveled at GW on this august forum rarely, if ever, meet the definition of abuse... but the bar for 'toxicity' seems far more nebulous, and I am not a fan of that.

 

Crapping on people's parades isn't cool, but I feel like there is a fair amount of legit things GW has done to grouse about, especially recently. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Azekai

[Halandaar]

Back to the discussion at hand, I think part of the problem is expressing negative opinions is being tarred as toxic. What does toxic even mean? It seems like a weasel word. It may be construed as toxic = abuse, but it more often seems to be used to describe 'thing I don't like' = toxic. There is a lack of precision in the language that seems intentionally vague. I think most of us can agree the criticisms leveled at GW on this august forum rarely, if ever, meet the definition of abuse... but the bar for 'toxicity' seems far more nebulous, and I am not a fan of that.

 

Can't agree enough. Toxic is a loaded word with wider social connotations that is very prevalent at the moment. It's use here seems intentional to generate instant sympathy with OPs point ("everyone knows toxic is bad, and I say this thing is toxic, therefore it's bad and i'm right!") when really the whole premise of the thread amounts to "I don't agree with those opinions so please stop posting them".

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

I see far more toxicity emerge out of several of GW's defenders getting snarky about 'the grogs' and 'whiners' than I do the more critical posters. Quite often people will be having a decent enough discussion, before a one-line post is spat out about how "some people are never happy" or along those lines that gets peoples backs up.

 

This has been my experience too. It's been so bad over the last few years that I've almost entirely stopped posting here. Forced positivity and suppression of dissenting opinions is just as toxic and insidious as constant negativity and is often a gross over-reaction to valid opinions.

 

 

I don't know if there has been a lot of forced positivity or suppression of dissenting opinions. I mean people post about primaris being a mistake fairly regularly, they talk about fixing vehicles, the new lore, the edition itself, and Missions quite a bit too. For the most part those topics only really get shut down when they are derailing the original topic.

 

I can't really think of a post on B&C where someone called people "whiners" or "the grogs" but I'd consider that post toxic (and I'm sure the mods would edit it out which I'm thankful for). That said the "some people are never happy" comment does resonate a bit with me. Mainly because some people don't really offer what they want, they just hate whatever GW just did, and while that's a completely valid opinion life is short and there are a lot of IPs out there. It honestly bums me out seeing posters that have a toxic relationship with GW like that.

 

I feel some are being more honest than others here, which sometimes people don’t even realize how what they say actually comes across. I think the OP is spot on for the most part and I’m glad to subject has been raised.

 

I don't think it's a question of honesty I think it's more your second point where people don't realize how they come across. I was not happy with the last chapter approved, and I've been complaining about certain heavy weapons pretty much the whole edition. I'd be lying if I said 9th was my favorite edition, but I'm sure I came across disliking it a lot more than I did. 

[Captain Caine 24th]

Part of what makes the forum function is moderation. There's ample evidence on other forums and websites, demonstrating this point. Things have gotten real wild out there. And this little forum is like a grocery store the frater have somehow managed to fortify during a zombie apocalypse. Now, how much moderation is necessary or proper, who's to say? Sharp dialog to one is music to another. For example, Lemartes is one of my favorite sculpts, though apparently anathema to many (I'll concede the original was not great). The presence of two sides doesn't suppose, however, that a one side equals another. Notably I'm not familiar with the present debate specifically, and just speaking generally of past heated exchanges. 

 

And, the frater are no less the critical makeup and sinew of the forum. How unrestrained should they be? I don't know either. On some level we're bordering a philosophical debate on the definition of an abstract notion--speech, maybe. And like, say love or justice, abstract notions are notoriously difficult to pin down. 
 

But, the topic here raises some interesting issues. One thing I've often thought about a lot over the years is group polarization theory, which supposes that over time any given group becomes more extreme. It seems more passionate members contribute more and participate more, eventually resulting in less passionate members declining in participation or leaving. The prevailing attitude can shift dramatically. I suppose that could be bad or good, but I mention it here in the context of toxicity.

 

Supposing the initial proposition is correct, that the B&C is leaning (or already is) toxic, what is the cure to prevent collapse? Or, rather, what should be done about it? Some answers suggest the premise of toxicity doesn't accurately describe the experience. Some suggest the definition of toxicity offered is overbroad or perhaps vague, which might over-reach prohibiting non-toxic behavior. Not facially invalid critiques, I'd say. But the fact we have a lively debate here suggests my anecdotal perception isn't necessarily complete.

 

Indeed, my view is actually much more incomplete than we've acknowledged. We hear the voices complaining. We don't hear those that left, and this could be a critical point on many 40k issues. A version of survivorship bias. Personally I can say that my profile says 2013. Truth is I was here in 2003, but fell out of the hobby in 2004 for many years. Even now, of my original group in 1996, only one other remains and he's two states away. We got old. I don't game as much as I'd like. Keeping the hobby alive and vibrant even for an individual is beset on all sides by a myriad of issues. And, ultimately, I don't know that I can offer a precise solution on what should be done in the case of this forum to prevent its undoing (e.g. Cadia, or Caliban style). Only in a general sense, can i say that we ought to strive for a sense of community (part of a group), overcoming obstacles (getting better at painting, etc), accomplishments (winning that award), encouragement (don't give up), and many other things. But, maybe within all that there's still a time and a place for validation on frustration, and criticism of points running contrary to the first principles of the forum. 

 

See you out there. Happy hunting.

[Marshal Loss]

As we are all aware, Primaris were a contentious decision on behalf of Games Workshop, and their rocky start did not help. The lore has been expanded and repaired since, and the model line is starting to develop a better and more cohesive personality as new models and units are released.

 

I really noticed this prevailing negative attitude in the topic I made that reported on the rumors that originated with Valrak's video. It reported on future model and book releases that are generally desired, and in the case of the books - sorely needed.

 

I've just cherry-picked a couple of lines that illustrate what the OP is getting so wrong. Some people are going to strongly disagree with you that the lore has been "repaired". Some people are going to strongly disagree with you that the Primaris line has developed a "better and more cohesive personality". Some people clearly do not desire the same model and book releases that you do. Some people are going to strongly disagree with you that (x) book release is "sorely needed". If you can't distinguish between what is a fact and what is an opinion, then I'm not surprised that so many posts upset you.

 

I simply don't see the kind of rampant negativity described here. Negative opinions are not toxic just because you disagree with them. So long as no personal attacks are made against anybody - whether forum member or GW employee - there is absolutely nothing wrong with a negative opinion, and I think the moderating team by and large do a good job of shutting down anything excessive (but they can't be everywhere; if in doubt, report). As others on this topic have said, I see "toxic" positivity just as often if not far more than I see "toxic" negativity from those who troll and mock anybody who don't share their beliefs. Some posters regularly perform mental gymnastics to justify or validate GW's choices, claiming some kind of insider insight while simultaneously promoting an inherently parochial view, implying that those who disagree are just haters or that the community is simply incapable of reaching the "correct view". They are just as wrong to do so as an individual who chooses to load up every topic with pre-made and irrelevant criticism ready to be thrown into the ether.

 

The B&C is frequented by a staggering array of people from all over the world; people of every conceivable race, gender, nationality, language, age, wealth, etc. Randomly generate a list of characteristics and chances are you'll find someone who posts or lurks here. And what could be more fantastic than that? It is rarely (if ever) going to result in uniformly positive (or negative) takes on any issue. If you're looking for unambiguous across-the-wall positivity, then you'll need to look for a community of people who think and act the way you do. But your opinions will always be more valuable in a place like the B&C. Echo chambers suck. Embrace the chaos.

 

Finally, even if you disagree with literally everything I've said, make liberal use of the report & block functions. If you think somebody is crossing a line, report them. If they're doing it consistently, report and ignore them. I'm one of those folks who can sometimes take things a little personally online and I've found my experience here has become a lot more positive since I took that advice to heart. Give it a shot.

 

edit: spent 15 minutes typing this and still had a typo, clearly my morning coffee was not strong enough

Edited December 29, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[Monstra Sumus]

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

 

That doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion or your right to your opinion. 

 

This place became a safe haven of mine back in 2008 on Christmas Day. I was in a really bad place and I hadn't been in the hobby for years. People pitched in and got me a box of Marines. I scoured the internet for hours that night looking for inspiration to even start because the alternative wasn't great. 

 

I found the B&C. Back then it was Power Armor only and the Horus Heresy was a fledgling creature barely pulling itself out of the muck being coaxed to life by the BL. It became home and I found a really great group of friends on here. We'd send bits to each other across the world when we needed it, we'd play in each others RPG games or collaborate projects together. Something you couldn't get on any of the other hobby forums because they were just like the Warhammer universe; there was only war. 

Then I gained more responsibility and strayed from it. Now I'm back and the landscape has indeed changed. It is 2021. Not 2008. We all grew up, the forum expanded, the hobby expanded. None of that is a bad thing. All it means is more opinion. More diversity. 

 

I can firmly 1000% absolutely positively without a shadow of a doubt completely disagree with someone on a Amicus or Rumor topic and tell that to their face (well screen) then find their project log during my daily trawl of the Forge and really enjoy their work. 

 

That is what the B&C has been all this time, regardless of how much the user base has waxed or waned, no matter how much content there is or isn't, it has always remained mature. 

 

Which is far more than can ever be said of the other forums. I remember a time when we were accused of being Elitist's on every forum going, probably still are but you know what...I couldn't care less because my hobby is here, my interest is here and if I don't like something I see and anything I want to say doesn't add something to the discussion...

 

I 

 

Keep

 

Scrolling. 

 

This place continues because of the environment cultivated by the moderation team. It is a wonderful place to be in. Do you have to agree with the content all the time? Certainly not. Yet it pays to be respectful to your fellow hobbyist within these hallowed black and red halls because there sure as donkey kong ain't another place like it. 

[Scribe]

 

As we are all aware, Primaris were a contentious decision on behalf of Games Workshop, and their rocky start did not help. The lore has been expanded and repaired since, and the model line is starting to develop a better and more cohesive personality as new models and units are released.

 

I really noticed this prevailing negative attitude in the topic I made that reported on the rumors that originated with Valrak's video. It reported on future model and book releases that are generally desired, and in the case of the books - sorely needed.

 

I've just cherry-picked a couple of lines that illustrate what the OP is getting so wrong. Some people are going to strongly disagree with you that the lore has been "repaired". Some people are going to strongly disagree with you that the Primaris line has developed a "better and more cohesive personality". Some people clearly do not desire the same model and book releases that you do. Some people are going to strongly disagree with you that (x) book release is "sorely needed". If you can't distinguish between what is a fact and what is an opinion, then I'm not surprised that so many posts upset you.

 

Indeed.

 

If things here have tilted negative (and frankly with the...Imperial levels of Moderation I find that nearly impossible to believe) then perhaps there is a reason? Perhaps the things GW is doing are NOT actually universally loved, and to comment on such things is just as valid as singing their praises?

 

I mean many of us have been in the hobby for literal decades and there are upswings, and downswings, all the time.

 

This place however remains utterly tame, in comparison to many, and I trust the mods will keep it as such.

[Schlitzaf]

Okay, weighing in now. After I read, now then. You poetato, I say potaeto. Its a potato. I think there a line that been crossed on B&C somewhere along the line. I don’t know where, and I don’t know how.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370685-gw-tourney-system-unveiled%E2%80%A6/page-4

 

I’ll point to that thread as an example. Before anyone goes “Schlitzaf that was you whining about special character dying take on the chin”. The point of the discussion linked there was negative response I had as a player.

 

That thread, honestly killed alot of interest in this board. The reaction to what I posted and people not even reading what I actually said which was to be clear:

 

“Pro ‘Creativity’ but also want to limit the armies being played. Or when asked much of the time its ‘why can’t I take meta’ weapon option”

 

“When I was young, losing Helbrecht like a chump, was such a bad gameplay experience that I just stopped using him. Its 40k characters die, but having my chapters big boy die like w chump when I was young was a very bad gameplay experience”

 

Instead it got turned into I somehow not a real 40k fan. Fast forward to now. The first thing about two new Primaris Characters “MARINE LOVE!” This is despite the fact:

Orks have just got a New Boyz, Ghaz, Various Speed Freak Buggies, new Flyers, new Helies, and I am certain more. Beyond. In 8th and 9th.

Sisters: Range redone

CWE: Banshees, Jain, now Farseers, Rangers. And they got new toys in 7th for Wraith armies.

Chaos Marines: Late 8th Edition Refresh. Plus new kits coming out soon.

Daemons: Every God gotten a refresh now. Khornes kinda oldish.

GSC/Admech/Quins: Literallt new range in 7th. Then got another wave in 8th for GSC/Admech.

Tau: New Wave, in 7th. Now 9th as well.

Tyranid: 5th/6th edition refresh.

Dark Eldar: Fifth refresh, some 9th edition new toys.

Variant Legions/Chapters: SW/BA/GK refresh 5th. DA refresh in 6th. DW/DG/Tsons, created in 7th. BT refresh in 9th.

Inqusition: Greyfax and onward about 1 new inquistoot every year.

IG: Krieg in 9th, upgrade sprews in 8th, some one off characters. A few kit upgraded in fifth, and then some other new ones in 7th.

 

Now yes marines get toys. Alot more than other armies. No one will deny that. But its not like GW ignoring other factions. Properly only faction to not have recieved a substantially NEW kit is Tyranids. Unless they had 7th edition wave I don’t know about. (Which I think theh did sense they have several character models that weren’t in production in fifth). But its Marine, Marines all the time.

 

Claiming your not being toxic, while often still dengerating the arguments. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/372739-primaris-ancient/page-3

 

For example last post on that thread “damn GW evil, they release a model and act like greatest thing”. It means “man I like tbis model! I wanted a power weaponed primaris ancient!” You feel like a child for wanting to say that.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/372739-primaris-ancient/page-5 Later same thread bemoaning “rules kill conversion” (and obligatoru man I miss armoury system. Which let us not forget we all bemoaned how return to armoury start of 8th made list building tedious again). The way they are worded, “but you see GW ANTI-FUN”. Despite GW promoting conversion actively (BT primaris ancient featured prominently in the codex for example) in many areas.

 

And shout out to Jaxon post. I think kinda fantastic. The question of conversion, while a terrible comparison/don’t like metaphor. Its alot like chicken before egg. “Do players convert to a build to what they want or convert to roll they want to roll for”.

 

Then people get on their horse “I’ve been playing sense…” Or the good ole days of White Dwarf as said in my shop. Maybe people aren’t be toxic as in “delibaretely denigrating or reducing someone via insulting or mean spirits”. But same token, look at this very thread.

 

“GW-Defenders”, or phrase “(demeaming) Primaris” fan because someone likes the change. Or often the disagreement is swept aside as being white knights. Now I understand these things are said in jest, but these things do build up. Now I am not saying we should playfully chest fun-making. But when I read something like that “Its okay your a primaris enjoyable, I tolerate you”. Espacially in a thread talking explicitlg about ‘passive’ toxicity (meaning a feeling of unwelcoming or aggressiveness torwards those not conforming).

[Slave to Darkness]

If you want Toxic go to the FB 40k for grownups group and mention a certain youtuber who has 'spicy' opinions and watch the meltdown... Thats a toxic environment. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

Wraith Space marines also are half the armies/codexes

That's a justification, which is fine and I understand, but that it's occurring isn't a subjective statement and we can provide historical data showing that.

 

My point there was that there's factual statements there, and we may disagree or agree on whether we think that's negatively impacting the hobby or not. Personally I don't actually see too much of a problem as long as it starts to cool down some as Primaris finish filling out their range, so long as they continue to address the other aged factions, but I understand why someone might have a different opinion by understanding the information there.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s toxic when a poster repeatedly posts the same barbs such as SM has too many bolt weapons going into more than necessary detail. When it’s posted several times within a 24 hour period you can’t help but think it’s trolling.

[templargdt]

Couple of thoughts:

- "Toxic" is most definitely a loaded word in US culture at least.  

- Disagreeing with someone isn't "toxic", despite what certain groups think.

- Learning to ignore unfair criticism, while accepting and acting on valid criticism, is part of growing up.  

- The internet enables keyboard tough guys who occasionally show up in a viral video discovering the hard way real life isn't twitter.  

- The B&C is the best moderated forum I know of on any topic I am interested in, and its not close.  

     -- I can think of several people who I personally thought were jerks on this forum over the years who got the boot.

     -- My impression was those people were pretty widely ignored and viewed as jerks

     -- B&C is actually over moderated from my POV, but meh, would you rather be on warseer or /tg/?

- There was a *lot* to legitimately criticize from the Primaris release, especially the initial execution.  This is a hobby with a lot of older gamers with very long memories. 

- GW has improved substantially from when I started playing in 2008 in lots of ways.

And finally, most importantly, everyone on the planet has been run down by COVID and its impacts.  Everyone has been under significantly increased stress, and at least for many folks they were barely hanging on before COVID (if they were at all.)  Stress, especially prolonged stress, manifests in ugly ways.  I think, especially now in the Christmas season, it would be great if we on the forum could work on giving each other more grace.  Its something I'm working on with the people in my life, especially now.

 

[Schlitzaf]

No one is saying toxicity = disagreement. Its about an enviroment or pervasive feeling. And lets take apart what you just wrote here:

-You said Best Moderated. Then say perhaps overly moderated as a cautionary point about a reactionary result of this thread. Then you go “well other sites are terrible”. That isn’t an argument for or against toxicity. It comes off as “maybe they creating a safe space” logic to try and decredit the thread.

-Primaris Release bad worthy of criticism. Perhaps, I disagree, I love the release. For how just “NuMarine”

It was. It meant that I could play them in my Templars and not worry about weird chapter traditions. The abscene of Primaris Crusaders was fine percisely because it “was have a bunch of Dudebros from Heresy”. Without chapter traditions so of course theh wouldn’t have Crusader Squads. Now that is admittedly a niche scenerio but I want to point it out.

-Older Gamers with Long Memories. What about us gamers (I joined the hobby mid 4th edition), whom are also old, and didn’t mind the release? Are we somehow not real for taking pitchforks?

 

It creates a sense of “true scotsman argument”. Why should it matter how new or old a hobbyist is? Why does old = primaris = bad. And the implication old = true. Its just bad logic, and creates a sense you cannot be ‘real’ fan because you like this. I go back to Lego Movie 1.

 

Lego Movie was the best 40k Movie. Because it showed “no right way”. 40k is your/my/our/their hobby. Trying to create/menufacture a sense of truer 40k in a discussion with these arguments is just poor taste, in my opanion.

[MegaVolt87]

There are more moving parts than "toxicity", which is a misnomer. The following are more relevant to the discussion at hand-

 

- A generational gap in 40k and the warhammer hobby.

- The dismissal of expert opinions as instead XYZ board inappropriate points or "toxicity". (You know what I mean)

- A lack of critical thinking skills, marco vs micro thoughts- micro issues are dragged down more to emotions/ personal opinion than more grounded, verifiable points of discussion. 

- A lack of debate skills- attacking the individual and not their points. 

- GW's actions in half measures and lack of foresight.

 

The above ingredients combine into quite the storm in a tea cup in a low stakes place in a hobby like warhammer. The disconnect of GW with its long term customers that arguably built their company, are talked down to or at, not WITH you/us. Newer people only know "new" GW and don't understand the history/ struggles of the past and their context/ relevance to the arguments/ opinions in front of them.

 

Labelling anyone with any knowledge, experience etc as "toxic" just for having the know how of what's going on and why. Its obvious many such people posting like that on this very board have other IRL experience in business, marketing, finance, economics, law and IT, bringing that with them into their hobby, which means others who lack such knowledge will butt heads with them because they bring with them unwelcome truths and an illusion breaking "man behind the curtain" moment like wizard of OZ. They can't attack the points effectively or at all, so resort to attacking the one behind the arguments instead. Such people live in the moment or today, they don't want to hear or acknowledge problems or issues that could potentially end the next tomorrow in the hobby for them to enjoy.  They believe in silencing or pushing such people out/ away will solve the problems, but quite often the harshest critics are the ones who love the hobby the most, more than even the "toxic positivise" folks. They are fighting for a continual succession of good tomorrows, not just the current one or maybe the next one. 

 

Finally, GW's inability to conduct itself effectively. Its acting like a cottage industry while STILL struggling in actually acting like a professional corporate entity. Half measures have resulted in such blowback from the community. The launch of W+ on a shoe string budget has cheapened its entry to the market. A rules app tied to a dying medium which is books to use. Its a wasteful mess that hasn't pleased anyone in its implementation. Primaris implementation vs firstborn debacle. Pricing and how they go about it ineffectively is another beast on its own. Its cartel tactics of restrictive trade internationally because of its pricing model. All in all, GW continues to hand out rods and act surprised when they are turned on them for behaviour/ actions that justify them getting used. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by MegaVolt87

[Cpt_Reaper]

If I may weigh in using some anecdotal evidence.

 

The things that has really worn me down is the negativity, toxic or otherwise, has become inescapable. From my local groups I am a part of, to various small online groups, to here. Sure, on B&C the "Everything GW do is wrong and evil" crowd might be small and a lot less vocal than I perceive it as, but when I come here to escape my local groups bemoaning literally everything GW does I can't help but see those same comments. I don't want to argue against them, because I just spent a few hours in the group chat doing just that. It's probably confirmation bias, but I do feel that "the community" would be happy if space marines never got a release again, and everything that wasn't space marine related should be top dog all the time.

 

I can't escape the negative comments about the parts of the hobby that I love, and I am too tired to try and defend them anymore so I just don't. I get that others are allowed their opinions, but due to the feeling of always being in the wrong on any 40k related subject I am now afraid of voicing my opinions whether they are positive or negative. I already feel bad for posting about the tau railgun buff, and will likely delete that comment.

[Charlo]

Honestly, the issue is that *everything* is met with negativity that feels largely pointless, or based on an opinion that is utterly uninformed.

[Slave to Darkness]

 I am now afraid of voicing my opinions whether they are positive or negative. I already feel bad for posting about the tau railgun buff, and will likely delete that comment.

Please dont, all opinions are valid and are worth voicing, even if its something we dont agree with. If everybody thinks the same way and posts the same things we end up with some dodgy hive mind, like some of the 40k fb groups. Thats why I only use the Heresy Posting group, good bunch of people who dont take everything so serious. 

[Scribe]

If I may weigh in using some anecdotal evidence.

 

The things that has really worn me down is the negativity, toxic or otherwise, has become inescapable. From my local groups I am a part of, to various small online groups, to here. Sure, on B&C the "Everything GW do is wrong and evil" crowd might be small and a lot less vocal than I perceive it as, but when I come here to escape my local groups bemoaning literally everything GW does I can't help but see those same comments. I don't want to argue against them, because I just spent a few hours in the group chat doing just that. It's probably confirmation bias, but I do feel that "the community" would be happy if space marines never got a release again, and everything that wasn't space marine related should be top dog all the time.

 

I can't escape the negative comments about the parts of the hobby that I love, and I am too tired to try and defend them anymore so I just don't. I get that others are allowed their opinions, but due to the feeling of always being in the wrong on any 40k related subject I am now afraid of voicing my opinions whether they are positive or negative. I already feel bad for posting about the tau railgun buff, and will likely delete that comment.

 

Voice yourself. Like something? Say so. Dislike something? Say so.

 

The premise of a thread saying 'dont voice negativity it brings me down' is the same as people calling others white knights for a soulless corporation. Its meant in the modern age to create an echo chamber.

 

I think its funny that on 3 other WILDLY disconnected forums from this one that are not even 40K based at all, I've seen complaints about Marines being too pushed in terms of releases in the last year.

 

There literally is a thread, a stream, of discontent within the hobby space, directed at what is seen as Marine overkill. It simply is what it is, but if you like something, voice it.

 

For example, I absolutely hate every heroic rock I see. Thats just a fact of life now. ;)

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

For example, I absolutely hate every heroic rock I see. Thats just a fact of life now.

 

Im gonna put heroic rocks on all my minis now!!!!!

 

I may even sneak into yours at night and put rocks on all your minis too!!!! :lol:

[phandaal]

 

 

For example, I absolutely hate every heroic rock I see. Thats just a fact of life now.

 

 

Been shaving off the Tactical Rocks or just building up the basing around it so it looks like a natural rise in the ground.

 

They still have a bent leg but now it looks like they are actually just moving with the terrain instead of finding a small rock to place their foot on.

 

That, and a bunch of OG Marine heads for my Primarines. Something of a rebel and/or folk hero, it's true. 

[Scribe]

 

 

 

For example, I absolutely hate every heroic rock I see. Thats just a fact of life now.

 

Im gonna put heroic rocks on all my minis now!!!!!

 

I may even sneak into yours at night and put rocks on all your minis too!!!!

 

 

I have reached my like quota for the day, so please know, this has been liked. 

[Antarius]

I can’t really quantify it in any way, but it certainly seems to me like the forum has gotten less constructive in the last couple of years, which, to my mind, does correlate with “negativity” (or at least a certain kind of negativity).

 

Maybe it is partly a function of me getting tired/annoyed with the circular nature of certain recurring discussions, maybe it is patly a function of the subforums I visit regularly, but I do feel that the forum has lost value to me as a place to go for a hobby “boost” or for interesting, nuanced discussion and reasonable disagreement.
I know this is slightly unfair, as there are many amazingly talented, insightful and just plain nice people posting here, but I still feel the need to say it, so it’s out in the open.

 

I dislike many aspects of the current state of 40k and I’m certainly not at the “happiness is mandatory, citizen” state of mind (not just yet, anyway), but I will say that I think a negative comment is by definition much more likely to be unconstructive than a positive one, unless carefully thought out, formulated and constructed so as to actively invite discussion.

 

l’ll see if I can expand upon it later (or at least word it better), but the tl;dr version is: a mindlessly positive post, while mindless, is better than a mindlessly negative one, because the first one at least contributes enthusiasm for the hobby. But we should all strive not to create posts that are “mindless” in the sense that they don’t invite actual, mutually enjoyable discussion.

 

Edit: I am obviously not above posting unconstructively from time to time myself, which is something I am not proud of. But even if it is not apparent to my fellow posters, I do try not to make a habit of it. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Antarius