New Supplements, New Primaris Units

[Schlitzaf]

 

 

 

A unique unit should be noticablt differenr and add SOMETHING to the armt not replicable by current units. Primaris SBro, and Primaris DCompany are great modern examples.*

 

*I pick them out as end of the day they are essentially VetCessors w/ Spec Rules & Gear. But lose Dbl Shoot & Sgt.

 

Specifically most modern unique units are likelt gonna be based on thay core concept. VetCessors then adding a chapter rule + chapter gear options = new toy

what exactly do primaris death company add?

They…have DC rules? So FNP etc. Like SBros are basically VangVets. But theh add something to the army (ignoring passions) that makes them interesting. DC are (in theory) same way.

that doesn’t add anything to the game since FBDC have FNP, with better weapons

And VanVets are basically better SBro. Also Firstborn DC don’t have access to Primaris Strats

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Primaris have access to some strategems that OG Marines cannot use, so there is that.

that doesn’t seem like enough to justify a unique unit though

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

A unique unit should be noticablt differenr and add SOMETHING to the armt not replicable by current units. Primaris SBro, and Primaris DCompany are great modern examples.*

 

*I pick them out as end of the day they are essentially VetCessors w/ Spec Rules & Gear. But lose Dbl Shoot & Sgt.

 

Specifically most modern unique units are likelt gonna be based on thay core concept. VetCessors then adding a chapter rule + chapter gear options = new toy

what exactly do primaris death company add?

They…have DC rules? So FNP etc. Like SBros are basically VangVets. But theh add something to the army (ignoring passions) that makes them interesting. DC are (in theory) same way.

that doesn’t add anything to the game since FBDC have FNP, with better weapons

And VanVets are basically better SBro. Also Firstborn DC don’t have access to Primaris Strats

that doesn’t make them unique which is the point.

They’re just a primaris version of a unit that already exists, and barring strat support, a worse version.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The biggest sales boom theyll have since Primaris will be when they do rescaled first born

I can smell them wanting you to buy old is new there from a mile away. There's no way they're not going to sell you another SM army, is my take on it.

[phandaal]

That would be better in some ways, worse in others.

 

The Marine range would have become extremely bloated. The Primaris units aren't just upscaled Marines, they are often unique in function and design.

 

As a replacement of the classic range, there will be a point in the future (once the old Marines are retired) when the range will no longer be bloated.

 

Nobody forced GW to come out with a million new mono weapon units and single loadout characters for the Primaris range. That is beside the point though.

 

The main thing is it would have been possible to give Marines a range refresh and even some brand new units without turbo crushing the lore.

 

Primaris are here to stay, they have plenty of cool sculpts, they have potential, and their lore introduction was shameful and embarrassing. It really do be like that.

[Orange Knight]

Their initial lore shortcomings have been discussed often in the past. At least as the lore grows they are smoothing things over.

 

Let's not forget that the classic Marines have revised lore that is very different from what was offered at the time of their inception.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

 

The biggest sales boom theyll have since Primaris will be when they do rescaled first born

Despite how far under the bridge that water is I still think GW made a mistake not using the Intercessor sculpts as just scaled up First Born and going from there.

 

snip

 

This is definitely what GW should have done. Primaris as models are fine and the upscaled proportions are great. Telling people "this replaces the thing you have liked for decades, oh and they are better than the thing you like in every way" was one of the stupidest things Games Workshop has done (and that includes the Chapterhouse deal).

 

The lore should have been: Cawl finds a way to rez G Man. G Man leads Cawl to a forgotten STC with the patterns for all this new Primaris gear. Bingo, donezo, and now you do not have lore that a kindergartner would come up with on the playground.

 

—

 

I can’t even understand why this is being discussed again. It’s literally beating a dead horse all over again — nothing will change lorewise either.

[phandaal]

 

 

 

 

The biggest sales boom theyll have since Primaris will be when they do rescaled first born

Despite how far under the bridge that water is I still think GW made a mistake not using the Intercessor sculpts as just scaled up First Born and going from there.

 

snip

This is definitely what GW should have done. Primaris as models are fine and the upscaled proportions are great. Telling people "this replaces the thing you have liked for decades, oh and they are better than the thing you like in every way" was one of the stupidest things Games Workshop has done (and that includes the Chapterhouse deal).

 

The lore should have been: Cawl finds a way to rez G Man. G Man leads Cawl to a forgotten STC with the patterns for all this new Primaris gear. Bingo, donezo, and now you do not have lore that a kindergartner would come up with on the playground.

—

 

I can’t even understand why this is being discussed again. It’s literally beating a dead horse all over again — nothing will change lorewise either.

Maybe one day if GW retcons their bonehead lore we can let it drop.

 

Until that day we will continue to summon the horse's soul back from the Warp for more beatings.

[spessmarine]

 

Maybe one day if GW retcons their bonehead lore we can let it drop.

 

Until that day we will continue to summon the horse's soul back from the Warp for more beatings.

 

 

Still funny to me the segregation on who can ride the rhino or stormhawk or whatever.

 

 

That would be better in some ways, worse in others.

 

The Marine range would have become extremely bloated. The Primaris units aren't just upscaled Marines, they are often unique in function and design.

 

As a replacement of the classic range, there will be a point in the future (once the old Marines are retired) when the range will no longer be bloated.

 

Nobody forced GW to come out with a million new mono weapon units and single loadout characters for the Primaris range. That is beside the point though.

 

The main thing is it would have been possible to give Marines a range refresh and even some brand new units without turbo crushing the lore.

 

Primaris are here to stay, they have plenty of cool sculpts, they have potential, and their lore introduction was shameful and embarrassing. It really do be like that.

 

 

 

Intercessors and Assault Intercessors, really could've been one kit from the start for example.

 

That and apparently Primaris are aspect warriors now as we've seen with primaris fire dragons (eradicators) and rumoured primaris dark reapers (missile boys). Would've preferred that squished a bit together and shuffled in a refreshed sanguinary guard or raven guard gets special eliminators. But GW has a 10 year plan of primaris I suppose.

[TheNewman]

What I care about is the aesthetics of the army and how much functional overlap there is in the data sheets. I don't think that what we have now looks cohesive at all on the table. I'm almost entirely certain that the wonky equipment on some Primaris units is the direct result of trying to not overlap Firstborn kits. I don't know that GW was really planning to retire Firstborn and then chickened out but it seems likely, and if that was the case then GW should have taken a hard step back to figure out how to integrate the new kits and the Primaris concept with the old datasheets so it didn't end up feeling like they just stapled two different codexes together.

 

Edit:

I get that the post quote the mod removed wasn't particularly constructive (not complaining about that decision), but without it there's no context to what's left. The string of posts made me feel like I had to clarify that the way I wish they'd handled the model range was entirely aesthetic and had nothing to do with the lore.

Edited February 19, 2022 by TheNewman
edited to remove non-constructive post quote

[phandaal]

That and apparently Primaris are aspect warriors now as we've seen with primaris fire dragons (eradicators) and rumoured primaris dark reapers (missile boys). Would've preferred that squished a bit together and shuffled in a refreshed sanguinary guard or raven guard gets special eliminators. But GW has a 10 year plan of primaris I suppose.

Yeah it will be interesting to see what they do with the range going forward. At first it was entirely new stuff but with Black Templars they have started incorporating Primarinated versions of iconic units.

 

That is what I am expecting for other chapters as well. Sanguinary guard seem like a good option, although we probably will not get those until Dante crosses the "60% of the time, it works every time" Rubicon Primaris.

[Dark Shepherd]

Marines all got an extra wound so its easier to survive the crossing :)

[bigtrouble]

I’m sure there are a hundred threads on why Primaris exists, but it’s worth reminding people that Primaris Space Marine is a widely applicable trademark, while Space Marine is not. This matters a ton for GW to continue developing books and models, and goes back to legal challenges in at least 2013.

 

There is no continued modeling support for first born imaginable, and they will be phased out. They have started already by legending models with no specific kits, now they are “rotating” out first born chapter specific characters, which will not likely make it back into production, and will disappear from codices soon enough. How long? Probably not 10th edition, but if they let 9th ed play out for 2 years after the codices, you can bet it’s because they need time for a massive game re-write, and reducing the marine line is almost certain.

[spessmarine]

 

For the codex adherent chapters we still have not gotten a proper replacement for Terminators, VanVets, Sternguard or Company Veterans. Now BGV do fill the role for close combat veterans but then there still isnt a Terminator equivalent or a shooty veteran unit and I think those niches are what the UM/IF/RG/WS/IH/Sallies might get in terms of unique units which can easily get their own spin in their respective supplements. Im still hoping to see Veteran Outriders with power weapons as the proper replacement for VanVets.

Attempting to replace Terminators would be a big mistake. Those are some of the most iconic models in the 40k franchise. It has been enduringly popular for the better part of 40 years.

 

On the flip side, GW could sell a boatload of new models if they offered a scaled-up Terminator and said "this has a Primaris Marine inside."

 

 

I like the idea of terminators but they could do with a bit more re-inventing.

 

Absolutely, it's the lore there. Raven Guard for instance have their Mor Deythan traits as part of their geneseed, so that's ready pickings for one of those other chapters to have something across them and their successors. The Salamanders had no successors until now, and could start coordinating with them and easily do that.

 

But like, why would the Genesis chapter after 10,000 years of separation and no coordination between them randomly pick up formations that say the Ultramarines do, and not do their own thing? To me it's less would they have their own thing, but more why would it be the same between them? Those two chapters haven't shared a command structure or ways of warfare beyond the Codex that normalizes them since the Horus Heresy.

Two categories, convertable ones that are unique datasheets only and unique kits that have unique datasheets.

Unique datasheets for simpler things, like an elite honour guard type where you add upgrade sprue bits to say a bladeguard kit. It has a datasheet but no product, easier to add and remove without logistics. Unique kits for fancier things, like primaris sanguinary guard where there is an associate kit with logistics along with datasheet(s).

[Morticon]

Keep comments constructive please, gentlemen. 

[Dark Shepherd]

I still would love to know what the original/ultimate plan was/is for Reivers. That is one of 40ks great unsolved mysteries…

I think theyre the apex of rules coming after model design

[phandaal]

 

I still would love to know what the original/ultimate plan was/is for Reivers. That is one of 40ks great unsolved mysteries…

I think theyre the apex of rules coming after model design

 

 

Their full helmets are great for kitbashing.

[phandaal]

Their initial lore shortcomings have been discussed often in the past. At least as the lore grows they are smoothing things over.

 

Let's not forget that the classic Marines have revised lore that is very different from what was offered at the time of their inception.

 

Way back in the day, Space Marines used to say "Semper Fi" to each other and were much less superhuman than they are today. Things do change, hopefully for the better. Just have to avoid the urge to obliterate what people like with a wave of copyrightable nuclear fire in order to make way for the new hotness.

 

The latest Black Templars release makes me think 40k may have survived its brush with the Good Idea Fairy and we will get updates rather than upending. I am expecting future Primaris releases to follow that template (with exceptions like those rumored rocket guys).

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

 

I still would love to know what the original/ultimate plan was/is for Reivers. That is one of 40ks great unsolved mysteries…

I think theyre the apex of rules coming after model design

Their full helmets are great for kitbashing.

They probably account for the majority of Chaplain heads :)

[Marshal Reinhard]

I actually pride myself on having a fair number of primaris chaplains with none of them using any of the very identifiable reiver helmets

Edited February 14, 2022 by Reinhard

[phandaal]

 

 

 

I still would love to know what the original/ultimate plan was/is for Reivers. That is one of 40ks great unsolved mysteries…

I think theyre the apex of rules coming after model design

Their full helmets are great for kitbashing.

They probably account for the majority of Chaplain heads

 

 

They also look very cool on Eliminators and Judiciars.

 

I actually pride myself on havinjg a fair number of primaris chaplains with none of them using any of the very identifiable reiver helmet

 

If only I could say the same! Alas, the allure of the skull helmet is just too strong.

[Marshal Reinhard]

If only I could say the same! Alas, the allure of the skull helmet is just too strong.

 

Oh, everyone has a skull helmet, just not that one

Edited February 14, 2022 by Reinhard