Naming/Origins of the Primarchs

[Pacific81]

Just an idea for a thread, after reading the other 'How the Primachs were designed' thread (and which I opened expecting it to be something else). 

 

We now know the HH series has turned into a NYT best-selling book series, multi-million pound business for GW (not to mention the countless 3rd party bits garage businesses), with a massive and growing range of miniatures. The lore itself is treated reverentially by a legion of fans, who combined have probably spent millions of hours crafting miniatures and building armies to represent the stories and characters which exist in the lore. 

 

But, we know the series (and specifically the Primarchs) were often introduced as single-line descriptions, often as throwaway comments, when they were first envisaged as part of the original Epic Horus Heresy release or following. Many of these were tongue-in-cheek references to characters from other works of fiction. 

 

I know a few of these, but how many of these do we know the stories behind? I thought it might be fun to try and list all of them as well as the context.

 

I can start with the obvious ones, please feel free to add any details to these

 

Konrad Kurze/Night Lords -  Based off Colonel Kurtz, in the novel Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Character that becomes a worshipped figure amongst the natives of Africa, becomes tyrannical and concludes that they should be wiped out after attempts to 'civilise' them fail. 

In Apocalypse Now, the film which is loosely based on the book, Charlie Sheen's character Captain Willard is ordered to enter Colonel Kurz's compound and kill Kurz, played by Marlon Brando (echoing the story of the Assassin sent after Kurze, who knew this would happen and accepts his fate)

 

Lion El'Johson/Dark Angels - The poet Lionel Johnson (1867-1902) wrote a poem named Dark Angel. This is meant to be about his own repression of homosexuality (I assume this is referenced by the 'terrible secret' that the Chapter/Legion harbours. 

 

Angron/World Eaters - I did read a comment many years ago that this was a reference to an Angry Ron that worked in GW Nottingham, but have no further details and no way of verifying unfortunately. So I don't know if this is the same person that came up with the Orks talking like football hooligans and speaking with a thick docker/London accent, although would love it if that was the case :) 

 

Is anyone able to add to this list?

[Karhedron]

Angron/World Eaters - I did read a comment many years ago that this was a reference to an Angry Ron that worked in GW Nottingham, but have no further details and no way of verifying unfortunately. So I don't know if this is the same person that came up with the Orks talking like football hooligans and speaking with a thick docker/London accent, although would love it if that was the case

I heard a similar story although it was not a GW employee but rather a chap at the nearby pub who was well known to the locals for his angry rants.

 

Ferus Manus is just cod-latin for iron hand so very unimaginative.

 

Corvus Corax is just the species name for the common raven.

 

Horus is named after mythological egyptian God. He was the son of Osiris, the king of the Gods and avenged his father's murder at the hands of Set. A fitting name for the Emperor's favourite son but not so much for the traitor.

 

Mortarion is just loosely based on the latin word for death.

 

Vulkan is based on the roman god of the forge.

 

Jhagati Khan is based on Gengis Khan, the mongol warlord.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

Not a Primarch name but Ghazkull's surname Mag Uruk Thraka is a parody of Margaret Thatcher and the devastating attacks on the industrial hive world of Armageddon is a parody of her policies which greatly affected Britain's heavy industries, including the area around Nottingham.

 

No one ever accused GW of subtlety.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Karhedron

[Gamiel]

Not a Primarch name but Ghazkull's surname Mag Uruk Thraka is a parody of Margaret Thatcher and the devastating attacks on the industrial hive world of Armageddon is a parody of her policies which greatly affected Britain's heavy industries, including the area around Nottingham.

 

No one ever accused GW of subtlety.

Based on a screen shot I have seen from Andy Chambers answering a question is that just a internet legend

[Old-Four-Arms]

Just an idea for a thread, after reading the other 'How the Primachs were designed' thread (and which I opened expecting it to be something else). 

 

Konrad Kurze/Night Lords -  Based off Colonel Kurtz, in the novel Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Character that becomes a worshipped figure amongst the natives of Africa, becomes tyrannical and concludes that they should be wiped out after attempts to 'civilise' them fail. 

In Apocalypse Now, the film which is loosely based on the book, Charlie Sheen's character Captain Willard is ordered to enter Colonel Kurz's compound and kill Kurz, played by Marlon Brando (echoing the story of the Assassin sent after Kurze, who knew this would happen and accepts his fate)

 

Aye, the Callidus assassin's name (M'Shen) is a direct reference to actor Martin Sheen (Captain Benjamin J. Willard in Apocalypse Now).

 

 

Perturabo could be linked to the magical name Aleister Crowley took upon his induction into the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn :

Perdurabo (I will endure until the end).

 

 

Rogal Dorn is probably a bastardized form of royal/regal, combined with the Gaelic "dorn" (fist).

 

 

According to "Zones of Control : Perspectives on Wargaming" (page 610), Roboute Guilliman would be inspired by Robert (Cham) Gilman,

a pseudonym of writer Alfred Coppel (The Navigator of Rhada).

 

https://books.google.be/books?id=IX38CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA610&lpg=PA610&dq=roboute+name&source=bl&ots=5mFPOb6vXT&sig=ACfU3U2AdZY2ck1ERUfOEu4Res-EyqVdgQ&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVqe_htKD1AhXDy6QKHYQdAgYQ6AF6BAgTEAM#v=onepage&q=roboute%20name&f=false

 

 

Alpharius/Omegon could be linked to the constellation of Alphard : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphard

Edited January 9, 2022 by Old-Four-Arms

[lansalt]

Horus is named after mythological egyptian God. He was the son of Osiris, the king of the Gods and avenged his father's murder at the hands of Set. A fitting name for the Emperor's favourite son but not so much for the traitor.

I have a theory about this one. There's a classic historical novel called The Egyptian, by Mika Waltari. In the story the idealistic pharaoh Akhenaten worships the golden Sun God and wants to bring peace to all men, but he's ultimately betrayed by his main general Horemheb, a whorshipper of Horus.

This book was very popular back in the 80s, and I bet the GW guys read it.

[Doghouse]

 

Aye, the Callidus assassin's name (M'Shen) is a direct reference to actor Martin Sheen (Captain Benjamin J. Willard in Apocalypse Now).

 

 

I can't unsee that now :D

 

That does make a lot of sense now I see the connection.

[alfred_the_great]

I’m pretty sure that Alpharius/Omegon is a classic biblical reference:

 

Revelation 1:8

 

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

[Noserenda]

Bear in mind 90% of these names were hashed out in a Nottingham pub pre internet so whilst obscure references are entirely possible, they wouldnt be tooooo obscure :D 

[Karhedron]

Several Primarchs were named in 1st edition but I think the full list of 18 was only finally nailed down at the start of 2nd edition IIRC (along with the 2 deleted Primarchs). Leman Russ was the first to be named IIRC although he was not originally a Primarch, just a commander who was instrumental in founding the Space Wolves in the original Rogue Trader book. Once the idea of Marines all being descended from Primarchs was established, he was retconned into being a Primarch.

 

Horus, Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, Fulgrim, Mortarion, Angron and Magnus were established fairly early on in the lore when the early fluff for the Horus Heresy was established. The others were established around the beginning of 2nd edition although several remained little more than names until GW started publishing their Index Astartes articles in WD which was in earely 3rd edition IIRC.

[Lord_Ikka]

Sanguinius: Based off of Latin word sanguineus, meaning bloody/blood thirsty/blood-colored

Fulgrim: Most likely based off the Latin word fulgur, meaning lightning/dazzling/flashing

[N1SB]

What a meaningful thread.  I can't believe I didn't realise some of these.  It is both enlightening and humbling, which just makes it extra enlightening.

 

Horus is named after mythological egyptian God. He was the son of Osiris, the king of the Gods and avenged his father's murder at the hands of Set. A fitting name for the Emperor's favourite son but not so much for the traitor.

 

 

Your post reminded me of something that turns out to be oddly relevant.  What you said matches my understanding, but I just remembered how that legend plays out in ancient Egyptian funerary rites.  When an pharaoh dies, he "becomes" (takes on the aspect) of Osiris, while his son becomes the new pharaoh and likewise "becomes" the new Horus.  When the son dies...he also "becomes" the new Osiris, replacing his father.  It's seen as a very natural cosmological cycle.

 

In other words, it's supposed to be natural for Horus to replace his "father", in a divine sense.  I just thought of that now, but I'm not an Egyptology expert.

 

 

Aye, the Callidus assassin's name (M'Shen) is a direct reference to actor Martin Sheen (Captain Benjamin J. Willard in Apocalypse Now).

 

 

Oh man, thanks for pointing that out, I didn't make that connection.  And for some reason I just remembered he's also the Illusive Man in Mass Effect 2 and 3.

 

I ran out of Likes.

Edited January 8, 2022 by N1SB

[Doghouse]

Several Primarchs were named in 1st edition but I think the full list of 18 was only finally nailed down at the start of 2nd edition IIRC (along with the 2 deleted Primarchs). Leman Russ was the first to be named IIRC although he was not originally a Primarch, just a commander who was instrumental in founding the Space Wolves in the original Rogue Trader book. Once the idea of Marines all being descended from Primarchs was established, he was retconned into being a Primarch.

 

Yeah that's right, he even had an osmotic gill instead of a mouth.

 

[Cactus]

I guess it's been a few years since we did this dance. :)

 

Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, so Alpharius/Omegon share a root with the Biblical usage but I doubt that it goes deper then that. I suspect the original joke was simply that Alpha was last in the list instead of first.

 

Bear in mind 90% of these names were hashed out in a Nottingham pub pre internet so whilst obscure references are entirely possible, they wouldnt be tooooo obscure :D

IIRC there were a few history and archeology graduates amongst them. If you dig into the creation of the Realm of Chaos books there are many Mesopotamian connections, for example. Also Lionel Johnson is quite obscure already!

[MARK0SIAN]

Aye, the Callidus assassin's name (M'Shen) is a direct reference to actor Martin Sheen (Captain Benjamin J. Willard in Apocalypse Now).

 

I’d never have even thought of that if you hadn’t pointed it out. Although now all I can see is President Bartlet assassinating a Primarch

[Pacific81]

 

According to "Zones of Control : Perspectives on Wargaming" (page 610), Roboute Guilliman would be inspired by Robert (Cham) Gilman,

a pseudonym of writer Alfred Coppel (The Navigator of Rhada).

 

https://books.google.be/books?id=IX38CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA610&lpg=PA610&dq=roboute+name&source=bl&ots=5mFPOb6vXT&sig=ACfU3U2AdZY2ck1ERUfOEu4Res-EyqVdgQ&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVqe_htKD1AhXDy6QKHYQdAgYQ6AF6BAgTEAM#v=onepage&q=roboute%20name&f=false

 

 

That's very interesting, the first time I have come across that one!

 

 

 

Based on a screen shot I have seen from Andy Chambers answering a question is that just a internet legend

 

I'm not sure what the odds are on the name of Ghazkull's surname and Margaret lining up almost exactly as an acronym (think one letter out?) I would say they are quite long! 

 

I would say it's more likely Andy C was just not wanting to dig up political commentary in the modern, business-savvy world of GW? 

[Tyriks]

 

According to "Zones of Control : Perspectives on Wargaming" (page 610), Roboute Guilliman would be inspired by Robert (Cham) Gilman,

a pseudonym of writer Alfred Coppel (The Navigator of Rhada).

 

https://books.google.be/books?id=IX38CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA610&lpg=PA610&dq=roboute+name&source=bl&ots=5mFPOb6vXT&sig=ACfU3U2AdZY2ck1ERUfOEu4Res-EyqVdgQ&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVqe_htKD1AhXDy6QKHYQdAgYQ6AF6BAgTEAM#v=onepage&q=roboute%20name&f=false

 

 

That's very interesting, the first time I have come across that one!

 

 

 

Based on a screen shot I have seen from Andy Chambers answering a question is that just a internet legend

 

I'm not sure what the odds are on the name of Ghazkull's surname and Margaret lining up almost exactly as an acronym (think one letter out?) I would say they are quite long! 

 

I would say it's more likely Andy C was just not wanting to dig up political commentary in the modern, business-savvy world of GW?

Chambers insults Thatcher in the same post, so it's definitely not him trying to avoid political commentary. I used to have it screenshotted but I can't seem to find it now. He said something to the extent that he wishes it was true but he just rolled up a name on a chart of Ork words based off Tolkein's Black Speech.

[Old-Four-Arms]

 On the origin of Ghazhkull Mag Uruk Thraka's name : ye aforementioned post..

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/c8tkfo/i_saw_an_injustice_done_to_a_fellow_grimdank/

Edited January 9, 2022 by Old-Four-Arms

[apologist]

Posted a few thoughts of this on my off-site blog here. Sorry to send a link, but it’s too much to copy. Edited January 9, 2022 by apologist

[Indefragable]

Posted a few thoughts of this on my off-site blog here. Sorry to send a link, but it’s too much to copy.

<slow clap>

[Pacific81]

Posted a few thoughts of this on my off-site blog here. Sorry to send a link, but it’s too much to copy.

 

What an interesting article! Thanks Apologist, really enjoyed reading that. 

 

That's an interesting comment about Magnus and the Roman/historical reference. I know that Rick Priestly definitely has a great interest in history (thinking the work he has done for Warlord Games, and I think he runs a lot of historically-based campaigns when wargaming) so I can completely believe that being a reference. The fact that there are so many other links to the Roman Legions throughout as well. 

 

Also - I didn't know about the origins of 'Ultramarine' (both the colour and the word). That will definitely be one to break out down at the pub!

 

Finally, I would say Alpharius definitely feels like an approaching-deadline-special. I suppose we should be grateful he wasn't named something along the lines of Sherlock Obiwan Clousea!

[lansalt]

Posted a few thoughts of this on my off-site blog here. Sorry to send a link, but it’s too much to copy.

I think Magnus was a nod to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertus_Magnus , a staple of New Age/pop occultism ("In the centuries since his death, many stories arose about Albert as an alchemist and magician."), as can be seen for example here: https://occult-world.com/albertus-magnus-st/

 

As you say, "UItramarine" means "beyond the sea"/"overseas" in romance languages, both as the colour for the sea, but also a reference to far places. In Spanish it was used as a reference to the old Empire's colonies like Cuba or the Philippines. There was a "Ministerio de Ultramar" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Overseas_(Spain) ) that managed it all.  But nowadays "ultramarinos" is used for frozen fish groceries :-)

 

I think GW first used it as a cheeky name for the first marines in that colour, and later as inspiration for their background as a far away realm in the other side of the galaxy in 2nd edition.

Edited January 10, 2022 by lansalt

[Iron Father Ferrum]

While I can't immediately account for the name Leman, the first Wolf King's surname is probably related the Rus, the ancestors of the modern-day Russians.  You see, the Rus were actually Swedish, and migrated inland colonies on the Baltic where they assimilated with various Slavic tribes from Novgorod down to modern day Ukraine.  Leman Russ is I believe so named because he was named by a Norse-inspired civilization -- the Russ in this instance being Rus with an extra letter tacked on the same way that other Primarch names tossed suffixes onto Latin names.  Which, incidentally, would also mean that his name isn't pronounced like "rust" without the T.  It would actually be closer "rooss."

 

But again, the given name Leman is harder.  The closest thing I could find in a cursory search was the town in modern-day Poland, near Bialystock, called Leman.  Geographically, that is near areas the Vikings and the Rus operated but I think it'd be a stretch to assume an obscure Polish town was picked to name a British science-fantasy character.

[lansalt]

While I can't immediately account for the name Leman, the first Wolf King's surname is probably related the Rus, the ancestors of the modern-day Russians.  You see, the Rus were actually Swedish, and migrated inland colonies on the Baltic where they assimilated with various Slavic tribes from Novgorod down to modern day Ukraine.  Leman Russ is I believe so named because he was named by a Norse-inspired civilization -- the Russ in this instance being Rus with an extra letter tacked on the same way that other Primarch names tossed suffixes onto Latin names.  Which, incidentally, would also mean that his name isn't pronounced like "rust" without the T.  It would actually be closer "rooss."

 

But again, the given name Leman is harder.  The closest thing I could find in a cursory search was the town in modern-day Poland, near Bialystock, called Leman.  Geographically, that is near areas the Vikings and the Rus operated but I think it'd be a stretch to assume an obscure Polish town was picked to name a British science-fantasy character.

Could Leman Russ just be a "le man"/"the man" cheeky name? As in "The man of the Rus"->"The Viking"

[Gorgoff]

 

 

While I can't immediately account for the name Leman, the first Wolf King's surname is probably related the Rus, the ancestors of the modern-day Russians. You see, the Rus were actually Swedish, and migrated inland colonies on the Baltic where they assimilated with various Slavic tribes from Novgorod down to modern day Ukraine. Leman Russ is I believe so named because he was named by a Norse-inspired civilization -- the Russ in this instance being Rus with an extra letter tacked on the same way that other Primarch names tossed suffixes onto Latin names. Which, incidentally, would also mean that his name isn't pronounced like "rust" without the T. It would actually be closer "rooss."

 

But again, the given name Leman is harder. The closest thing I could find in a cursory search was the town in modern-day Poland, near Bialystock, called Leman. Geographically, that is near areas the Vikings and the Rus operated but I think it'd be a stretch to assume an obscure Polish town was picked to name a British science-fantasy character.

Could Leman Russ just be a "le man"/"the man" cheeky name? As in "The man of the Rus"->"The Viking"

I thought so as well.

Like The Man himself.