If the imperium split which chapters would go to which side?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

But we're not that far post the rift opening at all anymore. I think the latest novel in the timeline is The Great Work?

[WARMASTER_]

But we're not that far post the rift opening at all anymore. I think the latest novel in the timeline is The Great Work?

We’re still way past it, it’s only that the Dawn of fire series is currently showing events around that time to fill in the gaps

 

Spears of the Emperor is set waaay past the rift opening for instance

 

It’s a narrative with a meta plot and a massive timeline to tell events inside

 

If you look at the previous way BL showed “current” lore in the novels most were never set just before the events of the great rift most were hundreds of years in the past, like space marine battles or even Guantanamo ghosts but they were still classed as modern 40K up to date lore

Edited January 16, 2022 by BladeOfVengeance

[phandaal]

 

But we're not that far post the rift opening at all anymore. I think the latest novel in the timeline is The Great Work?

We’re still way past it, it’s only that the Dawn of fire series is currently showing events around that time to fill in the gaps

 

Spears of the Emperor is set waaay past the rift opening for instance

 

It’s a narrative with a meta plot and a massive timeline to tell events inside

 

If you look at the previous way BL showed “current” lore in the novels most were never set just before the events of the great rift most were hundreds of years in the past, like space marine battles or even Guantanamo ghosts but they were still classed as modern 40K up to date lore

The 100+ years thing was just recently retconned with the reprints of Dark Imperium, and events from Dawn of Fire were added to Dark Imperium to tie them in together. Probably because GW abandoned their plans to do Space Age of Sigmar. 40k is set right after the opening of the Great Rift.

 

Old books published before the retcon are irrelevant to establishing where we are now.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Spears' timing is a good example of how messed things up are since the retcon to be fair. The mission of the Mentor marine in Spears is to deliver the 'new' Rubicon technology. The Calgarian Rites, to the spears in Nihilus. The implication being that there was originally a fair bit of time between the unveiling of the Primaris and the discovery of the Rubicon process. Now we know those things followed much more closely, with it being pretty common by the time the Plague War ended.

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

But we're not that far post the rift opening at all anymore. I think the latest novel in the timeline is The Great Work?

We’re still way past it, it’s only that the Dawn of fire series is currently showing events around that time to fill in the gaps

 

Spears of the Emperor is set waaay past the rift opening for instance

 

It’s a narrative with a meta plot and a massive timeline to tell events inside

 

If you look at the previous way BL showed “current” lore in the novels most were never set just before the events of the great rift most were hundreds of years in the past, like space marine battles or even Guantanamo ghosts but they were still classed as modern 40K up to date lore

The 100+ years thing was just recently retconned with the reprints of Dark Imperium, and events from Dawn of Fire were added to Dark Imperium to tie them in together. Probably because GW abandoned their plans to do Space Age of Sigmar. 40k is set right after the opening of the Great Rift.

 

Old books published before the retcon are irrelevant to establishing where we are now.

People assume the whole time line shifted because they changed the dates of one campaign within the crusade it’s never been mentioned anywhere they’ve shifted it all

[Sword Brother Adelard]

But a lot of things necessarily have to move to accommodate the single definitive move...

 

We now have nothing concrete I can think of that puts the timeline anywhere near 100 years after the rift. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I think I'm pretty up to date on the recent BL releases.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Spears' timing is a good example of how messed things up are since the retcon to be fair. The mission of the Mentor marine in Spears is to deliver the 'new' Rubicon technology. The Calgarian Rites, to the spears in Nihilus. The implication being that there was originally a fair bit of time between the unveiling of the Primaris and the discovery of the Rubicon process. Now we know those things followed much more closely, with it being pretty common by the time the Plague War ended.

 

The mission was to see if they were still there, the process to cross the rubicon came up as an option to save someone it wasn't the purpose of their trip can't really go into details without spoilers. Fully recommend the book but I honestly see no reason why it would need to move up in the timeline. IIRC part of the appeal for ADB with writing spears was that it was his own section of space. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yes, that was the primary mission. But bringing news of the rites was a secondary part. Anuradha reminds the other serfs about the process and that they were bringing news of it to the Spears when they needed it.

It doesn't 'need' to move, but it probably does move, particularly later when we will have other books move the plot into Nihilus more and more. Which so far, hasn't featured much.

[phandaal]

Yes, that was the primary mission. But bringing news of the rites was a secondary part. Anuradha reminds the other serfs about the process and that they were bringing news of it to the Spears when they needed it.

It doesn't 'need' to move, but it probably does move, particularly later when we will have other books move the plot into Nihilus more and more. Which so far, hasn't featured much.

 

I am totally OK with the timeline moving forward, provided GW can resist the urge to blast the lore into little pieces like they did to Fantasy and were planning to do with 40k.

[WARMASTER_]

They’d never give 40K the fantasy treatment it’s the the main money maker

[phandaal]

They’d never give 40K the fantasy treatment it’s the the main money maker

They almost did. Lucky for us, GW were unable to convince themselves that it was really a good idea.

[MegaVolt87]

I don't see it happening, 40k is already drifting to 30k from wish.com. Another serious civil war/ split + more returning primarchs would really de-value 40k as a setting further. 

[Charlo]

Serious question:

 

How can the Imperium split, when it's *already* a huge, unorganized and utterly fractious nightmare of burocracy, inefficiency and distrust...?

 

I think expecting it shows a serious misunderstanding and over simplification of the setting, personally!

 

Also, whatever you may think is happening; Guilliman is 15 steps ahead of you ;)

 

Just read the Watchers of the Throne series hehe

 

Going further: yes, it's literally split by the great rift, however that's not enough to suddenly unite each side against the other, especially with all the xenos, chaos and heretics around.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Charlo

[Dracos]

Pretty this little thing called the Horus Heresy is one example of how it can split. History does tend to repeat itself in some form. GW has had no problem riffing off real life historical events either so plenty of examples there to pull from.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

 

 

 

The whole "100 years" thing is pretty well dead at this point when it comes to discussing Guilliman and Terra. Dark Imperium got retconned to taking place a dozen years after the Crusade started, rather than 112 years. There may be some stories that took place in that +100 years timeframe that will stay there and not be pushed back, but most of the fiction is likely to remain set within the first decade or two of Gilly's return.

Well as the dawn of fire series progresses the “current” fiction at least that novel series will inevitably reach the current time line of 100 ish years after as that’s why they’ve retconned a single novels events date so it can reach a final event we haven’t seen yet (keeps it interesting) so I’d probably wager most of the fiction will actually be set in any of that time from the rift opening to after the indomitus crusade

 

I think way to much has been put on one books event time line being changed, 40K is a narrative with a meta plot I doubt many authors will cleave to a specific date in the cursade when they have 100+ years to play with, look at the space marine battles series most were considered modern 40K and many took place hundreds of years before the “current” time line that was

They've already stated numerous times that Dawn of Fire will end where the retconned Dark Imperium began, 12 years into the Crusade.

 

Frankly, there just wasn't a lot of fiction set post-Crusade and it's far less exciting for stories to be set AFTER a galaxy-spanning conflict than during it.

From the mouth of the guy that’s leading the series and wrote the book

6.40 onwards in the interview

 

Dark imperium is now only the end of the “first phase” of the crusade so all they’ve done is now left the ending event of the crusade unknown (so they can write a full series without us knowing the end which makes way more sense imagine starting the HH series at the final book of the siege of terra) and moved a single event “the plague war” to 12 years in

 

The time line is still 100 “ish” year after the rift opening for current date the dawn of fire series is just filling in the space between

I'm familiar with that interview. I'm curious which part of it you're interpreting as supporting your contention, though.

 

I GUARANTEE Dawn of Fire will end where Dark Imperium begins - twelve years into the Crusade - not a hundred-plus years into the Crusade as you allege. Not only has Haley said as much multiple times, but the series is actually named after the flagship that is replaced as of the Dark Imperium trilogy.

While I think we may have crossed wires here at some point, my original point when the thread was on track is the the time line remains the same were still 100+ years after the rift opened whether the Dawn of Fore series ends at plague war or not…

 

I would say though my point of contention is at what point did he say that the plague war will mark the end of the series?

 

 

They've spoken about the end of Dawn of Fire "dovetailing" with Dark Imperium since right around the time Dawn of Fire began (and like I said, it was pretty obvious even before they confirmed it since we know Dawn of Fire itself is no longer around as Guilliman's flagship by the time Dark Imperium starts - with its sister ship being destroyed in the first book of the series, it's always seemed like a solid thematic bet that Dawn of Fire itself will go out in a blaze of glory in the final book).

 

And most recently during the Black Library Preview in December, Haley again confirmed "The way that Dawn of Fire works basically is that the books will lead up to Dark Imperium and then Dark Imperium takes place immediately after Dawn of Fire and then they'll provide us with a jumping-off point into whatever we happen to decide to do next."

 

So it doesn't even sound like they've made up their minds on what they're going to do once Dawn of Fire wraps up, but when they do I wouldn't expect any big stories or series to be set much further out than a few years after Dark Imperium. Aside from the few Black Library stories that came out (mostly concurrent with early Eighth Edition) that were set around the original 112 year timeframe after the Crusade started, pretty much all of the campaign content introduced in the latter part of Eighth and into Ninth Edition has been set during that first dozen years of the Indomitus Crusade. Charadon was set in between War of the Spider and Dark Imperium, the Pariah Nexus conflict klcked off nine years into the Crusade, Calgar's appearance in the 8th-ed Vigilus books took place before Dark Imperium and Godblight set up Vigilus Alone to take place very shortly thereafter, etc.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Lord Nord

[MegaVolt87]

Between the 8th ed codex's timelines and PA events referenced, there is plenty of content to backfill the timeline before it needs to even progress forwards. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The Dawn of Fire doesn't have to be destroyed to be replaced. The reason the Macragge's Honour isn't the flagship is because Huron Blackheart stole it during the Terran Crusade. At some point in the tale therefore, Guilliman is going into the Maelstrom and getting his ship back!

[Charlo]

Pretty this little thing called the Horus Heresy is one example of how it can split. History does tend to repeat itself in some form. GW has had no problem riffing off real life historical events either so plenty of examples there to pull from.

 

Nugget of truth in this, but the state of the Imperium is completely different to when the HH originally broke out. It was utterly united prior, with humanity in ascendency with good lanes of communication. Current 40k is not that.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

The Dawn of Fire doesn't have to be destroyed to be replaced. The reason the Macragge's Honour isn't the flagship is because Huron Blackheart stole it during the Terran Crusade. At some point in the tale therefore, Guilliman is going into the Maelstrom and getting his ship back!

 

Yes, I know that, but do you honestly think Gilly is just going to transfer his flag from the Dawn of Fire and then turn around and advertise it on Craigslist, intact and majestic? Does that sound at all 40K to you?

 

"New ship, who dis?"

 

Or is it far more likely that he has to watch Dawn of Fire be destroyed before he regains command of Macragge's Honour?

Edited January 19, 2022 by Lord Nord

[phandaal]

 

 

Pretty this little thing called the Horus Heresy is one example of how it can split. History does tend to repeat itself in some form. GW has had no problem riffing off real life historical events either so plenty of examples there to pull from.

Nugget of truth in this, but the state of the Imperium is completely different to when the HH originally broke out. It was utterly united prior, with humanity in ascendency with good lanes of communication. Current 40k is not that.

With the way that 30k is becoming more popular these days, it would be very strange for GW to make 40k into another "Imperium Civil War" setting.

[phandaal]

 

 

 

But we're not that far post the rift opening at all anymore. I think the latest novel in the timeline is The Great Work?

We’re still way past it, it’s only that the Dawn of fire series is currently showing events around that time to fill in the gaps

 

Spears of the Emperor is set waaay past the rift opening for instance

 

It’s a narrative with a meta plot and a massive timeline to tell events inside

 

If you look at the previous way BL showed “current” lore in the novels most were never set just before the events of the great rift most were hundreds of years in the past, like space marine battles or even Guantanamo ghosts but they were still classed as modern 40K up to date lore

The 100+ years thing was just recently retconned with the reprints of Dark Imperium, and events from Dawn of Fire were added to Dark Imperium to tie them in together. Probably because GW abandoned their plans to do Space Age of Sigmar. 40k is set right after the opening of the Great Rift.

 

Old books published before the retcon are irrelevant to establishing where we are now.

People assume the whole time line shifted because they changed the dates of one campaign within the crusade it’s never been mentioned anywhere they’ve shifted it all

People do not assume it shifted. They know it shifted, because events which were previously set later in the timeline have been moved up to occur earlier in the timeline.

 

We all love winning on the Internet, but this is a strange point to keep denying.

[WrathOfTheLion]

And they had to do this shift to keep the Era Indomitus remotely interesting. If ~110 years in is the Plague Wars and everything was dandy besides that, all the stuff they're doing becomes them just yanking our leg, because we know it can't end with anything interesting.

[Orange Knight]

Actually it can go into plenty of interesting directions.

 

The lore, for better or worse, is now somewhat tied to the models. Valrak is suggesting that the return of the Lion is on the cards for 10th edition.

 

I'm willing to bet that the next plot advancement that goes beyond the event of Godblight will feature the return of the Lion into the setting.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

And they had to do this shift to keep the Era Indomitus remotely interesting. If ~110 years in is the Plague Wars and everything was dandy besides that, all the stuff they're doing becomes them just yanking our leg, because we know it can't end with anything interesting.

 

It always seemed to me to be a corporate decision enforced on the writers. They wanted to fast-forward to a time when the new Primaris Marines had been fully accepted and integrated as just part of life in order to thwart any 4chan-esque hysteria that the Primaris were going to be a bait and switch and would end up turning into the new big bad via some "Order 66" machination after a few years.

 

They wanted people buying those new models NOW and that meant there couldn't be any ambiguity about their future. They WERE the Imperium's future and they wanted everyone to understand that, even if it meant that the new setting was far less interesting ("Hey guys, there was this century-plus conflict spanning the entire galaxy and featuring every faction you could imagine fighting for their survival, the utter destruction of countless worlds... but you JUST missed all that. The Indomitus Crusade is over. The good guys won. Now we're going to show you a bunch of smaller bush wars featuring our new shiny toys. Aren't you excited?")

[WrathOfTheLion]

Actually it can go into plenty of interesting directions.

 

The lore, for better or worse, is now somewhat tied to the models. Valrak is suggesting that the return of the Lion is on the cards for 10th edition.

 

I'm willing to bet that the next plot advancement that goes beyond the event of Godblight will feature the return of the Lion into the setting.

It can go into plenty of interesting directions now. But with the 8E launch, you're pigeon holded into that no other Primarchs return, and that all conflicts during the Indomitus Crusade get steamrolled over, or else Guilliman would've mentioned them in Dark Imperium. With the Indomitus Crusade capped with the Plague Wars, the only thing that could happen during that 100 years is that the Imperium won.

 

As far as the Lion goes, in that case Azrael and the Dark Angels would've let the Fallen just gather for up to 100 years instead of going to address it immediately.

 

They had to change the timeline if they wanted to do anything interesting during the Indomitus Crusade.