Does the Tournament Play detachment change affect my DA?

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

For my DA - Does that change apply to Deathwing/Ravenwing detachments with a Greenwing (regular Dark Angels) detachment?

It shouldn't, Deathwing and Ravenwing still have <Chapter> replaced with <Dark Angels>, so it's still the same subfaction.

 

It would stop you from bringing Angels of Absolution Ravenwing with Consecrators Deathwing, but I don't think anyone was doing that because Dark Angels heavily encourages conformity with the Chapter tactic. They might do it in more narrative games, but at that point this doesn't apply anyways.

Edited January 22, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Skywrath]

 

 

For my DA - Does that change apply to Deathwing/Ravenwing detachments with a Greenwing (regular Dark Angels) detachment?

It shouldn't, Deathwing and Ravenwing still have <Chapter> replaced with <Dark Angels>, so it's still the same subfaction.

 

It would stop you from bringing Angels of Absolution Ravenwing with Consecrators Deathwing, but I don't think anyone was doing that because Dark Angels heavily encourages conformity with the Chapter tactic. They might do it in more narrative games, but at that point this doesn't apply anyways.

 

 

But in the event of two detachments, let's assume a Greenwing + Deathwing, the Deathwing subfaction would technically be subject to that rule, because the other detachment wouldn't have a keyword the Deathwing subfaction has?

 

Sorry mods for the slight derail, didn't want to make a topic out of a question.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

 

 

For my DA - Does that change apply to Deathwing/Ravenwing detachments with a Greenwing (regular Dark Angels) detachment?

It shouldn't, Deathwing and Ravenwing still have <Chapter> replaced with <Dark Angels>, so it's still the same subfaction.

 

It would stop you from bringing Angels of Absolution Ravenwing with Consecrators Deathwing, but I don't think anyone was doing that because Dark Angels heavily encourages conformity with the Chapter tactic. They might do it in more narrative games, but at that point this doesn't apply anyways.

 

 

But in the event of two detachments, let's assume a Greenwing + Deathwing, the Deathwing subfaction would technically be subject to that rule, because the other detachment wouldn't have a keyword the Deathwing subfaction has?

 

Sorry mods for the slight derail, didn't want to make a topic out of a question.

 

Deathwing units don't have a separate faction keyword, the faction keywords of a Deathwing Strikemaster for instance are still only <Imperium>, <Adeptus Astartes> and <Dark Angels>.

[Skywrath]

 

 

 

 

For my DA - Does that change apply to Deathwing/Ravenwing detachments with a Greenwing (regular Dark Angels) detachment?

It shouldn't, Deathwing and Ravenwing still have <Chapter> replaced with <Dark Angels>, so it's still the same subfaction.

 

It would stop you from bringing Angels of Absolution Ravenwing with Consecrators Deathwing, but I don't think anyone was doing that because Dark Angels heavily encourages conformity with the Chapter tactic. They might do it in more narrative games, but at that point this doesn't apply anyways.

 

 

But in the event of two detachments, let's assume a Greenwing + Deathwing, the Deathwing subfaction would technically be subject to that rule, because the other detachment wouldn't have a keyword the Deathwing subfaction has?

 

Sorry mods for the slight derail, didn't want to make a topic out of a question.

 

Deathwing units don't have a separate faction keyword, the faction keywords of a Deathwing Strikemaster for instance are still only <Imperium>, <Adeptus Astartes> and <Dark Angels>.

 

 

Let's take this to the Dark Angel forum. 

[Malakithe]

Short answer is No. They all have the <Dark Angels> keyword so no change is needed

[Dosjetka]

To clarify: these posts were originally posted in a thread in NR&BA and were split off into their own thread here at Skywrath's request.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with WrathOfTheLion's and Malakithe's assessment that this doesn't preclude you from mixing wings in your army, even in a dual detachment army since they both share the Dark Angels (or a Dark Angels successor Chapter) faction keyword.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Dosjetka

[phandaal]

The answer is no. "Deathwing" and "Ravenwing" are not sub-faction or faction keywords. They are additional keywords like "Fly" or "Primaris."

 

"1st Company" and "2nd Company" are abilities that are added to Vanguard or Outrider detachments if those detachments contain only units with "Deathwing" or "Ravenwing" keywords. They are not keywords or detachment types.

 

All units retain their Dark Angels sub-faction keyword.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Thanks for splitting the thread.

 

As we've said before, there is no faction keyword associated with the Ravenwing or Deathwing, they are just 'Dark Angels' faction units. So a 'Deathwing' Vanguard detachment is still a <Dark Angels> Vanguard detachment faction-wise, or <Angels of Absolution>, etc. if you're playing a Dark Angels successor chapter. So this rule will not affect playing the various wings or how they interact with each other.

[Schlitzaf]

Also as a raw thing its ABOUT SELECTABLE keywords. So hileriously. You could do (by raw):

Belial + 3 DW Knights Vangaurd

Greenwing Successor.

Sense DW Knights do have DARK ANGEL not (CHAPTER). Only cases where (CHAPTER) exists as a choosable keyword does (CHAPTER) require to be same

[phandaal]

Also as a raw thing its ABOUT SELECTABLE keywords. So hileriously. You could do (by raw):

Belial + 3 DW Knights Vangaurd

Greenwing Successor.

Sense DW Knights do have DARK ANGEL not (CHAPTER). Only cases where (CHAPTER) exists as a choosable keyword does (CHAPTER) require to be same

 

No, you cannot do that by RAW. The sub-faction keyword is chosen at the start of army-building now - as in, you decide up front that your entire army is Dark Angels and then build detachments with that sub-faction keyword.

 

Please do not add more confusion for OP. 

[Schlitzaf]

Selectable (CHAPTER) Keywoed chosen on list construction. Deathwing And Belial do not have a selectable (CHAPTER) keyword

[phandaal]

What that should tell you is that if you do not select "Dark Angels" as the sub-faction keyword at the start of list building, you cannot use Belial.

 

Same as it always was.

 

If you DO select "Dark Angels" as the sub-faction keyword at the start of list building, then your "Successor" Greenwing Detachment would become "Dark Angels" instead.

[Harleqvin]

What it comes down to is this.
Does Ravenwing or Deathwing meet the requisite of being selectable faction keyword (what some call subfaction keyword,) example being <chapter> or <craftworld>?

That answer is no. It is not. They are not a selectable keyword faction.
Doing a detachment that only includes models with Deathwing Keyword, or only Ravenwing keyword, doesn't change that your selectable keyword faction for <chapter> is Dark Angels (or if you are playing your army as a DA successor chapter, that successor chapter name.)

Edit - this is only for GT ruled games, though. Also it doesn't mean you can't do a detachment of Guard and a Detachment of Dark Angels, you can still as they are two different selectable keyword factions, <chapter> and <regiment>. You just can't do a detachment of Blood Angels & a detachment of Dark Angels as that would be choosing two different <chapter> keywords choosing those as the selectable keyword for <chapter>.

 

Some Units have a bolden subfaction keyword name, namely special named units (like Guilleman.) They don't interfere with this soon to be GT play rule dealing with selectable faction keywords (at least until they decide there's something amiss with it.)(but they would cause some issues with some special abilities if used in your army.)

Edited January 24, 2022 by Harleqvin