New to 1ksons, 2k list to build toward - advice appreciated

[Brother Kraskor]

Making the jump into 1ksons and would appreciate some advice from the veterans out there.

 

Cult of Time, 2x Additional Relics

 

Daemon Prince (185) Warlord (Undying Form), Wings & Sword, Hourglass of Manat. Temporal Manipulation, Twist of Fate

Exalted Sorcerer (160) High Acolyte (Immaterial Echo), Disc, Athenaen Scrolls, Dilettante (Helm of Daemon's Eye). Tzeentch's Firestorm, Doombolt

Infernal Master (90) Umbralefic Crystal. Fires of the Abyss, Malefic Maelstrom. Empyric Guidance

Terminator Sorcerer (110) Axe, Combi-melta. Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates

 

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame. Pyric Flux

10 Rubrics (230) Soulreaper Cannon, Icon of Flame. Temporal Surge

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon. Gaze of Hate

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon. Perplex

 

10 Scarab Terminators (445) 2x Hellfyre, 2x Soulreaper Cannon, Rites of Coalescence. Presage

 

5 Chaos Spawn (115)

 

Forgefiend (155) 3x Ectoplasma Cannon

 

1999pts, 100PL, 17 Cabal Points, 9CP remaining

 

 

I'll try and explain the plan:

 

- Scarabs and Term Sorc probably deep-strike centrally. Term Sorc provides them with 4++ and -1 to hit. They provide themselves with +1 to hit, and use Great Sorcerer strat to also cast Time Flux to give them two cracks at the whip at scoring a natural 9+, at which point I'll also use Warped Regeneration. So their best case scenario healing is one model back to full wounds (Coalescence) and two models revived (Time Flux, Warped Regen). Hopefully they'll be in cover and can always use the -1D strat so should be survivable.

 

- Infernal Master puts Maelific Maelstrom on the Forgefiend and Empyric Guidance on the first five-man unit of Rubrics and sits comfortably backfield. The Forgefiend will get that crucial S8 ectoplasmas, and the Rubrics will have 30" bolters so hopefully able to contribute shootingwise, and if anythings in range will use Gaze of Hate (or alternatively psychic actions). Also a good candidate for the CP generation Ritual. 

 

- Infernal Master will also use Crystal on the 10 flamer Rubrics. They will be something of a kamikaze, deep-striking in and using Pyric Flux and Wrath of the Wronged to barbecue some infantry. 

 

- Daemon Prince runs amok, should be hard to kill with self-healing, -1D, and Hourglass, and can turn off invuls before charging a key unit (Bladeguard would be its ideal target!)

 

- Second 10-man Rubrics move up the table to reinforce the Terminators, should be able to move quickly with Temporal Surge. They are supported by the Exalted Sorcerer, who is a mortal-wound generator. Will use Scrolls on Tzeentch's Firestorm to hopefully score natural 9+. This then triggers Immaterial Echoes, permitting an undeniable Doombolt buffed with Cabalistic ritual for extra D3 mortal wounds. Finally rounded off with Smite (thanks to Echoes). If not empowered can also pop Malefic Scroll to ensure 3 MW from Smite. Exalted Sorc is also generating CP with Helm.

 

- Second 5-man Rubrics are spare, can hold objectives if needed or advance as required. Perplex is there to maybe have a chance at protecting the backline, can be boosted to 30" range via Ritual, alternatively Smite is always on the table.

 

- 5-man Spawn totally flexible and plug gaps as needed. Can also pull a surprise long-range charge via Temporal Surge

 

 

 

Am I roughly on the right track here? Is it advisable to leave some of the army blank for summoning? 

[Brother Kraskor]

Alternatively, probably less balanced but potentially a blast including Magnus:

 

Cult of Time, 2 Additional Relics

 

Magnus the Red (450) Warlord. All the psychic

 

Daemon Prince (185) Wings, Sword, Hourglass of Manat. Temporal Manipulation, Swelled by the Warp

Exalted Sorcerer (160) Disc, High Acolyte (Immaterial Echo), Athenaen Scrolls. Tzeentch's Firestorm, Doombolt

Infernal Master (90) Helm of the Daemon's Eye. Glimpse of Eternity, Malefic Maelstrom. Empyric Guidance

 

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame. Pyric Flux

10 Rubrics (230) Soulreaper Cannon, Icon of Flame. Temporal Surge

10 Tzaangors (80) Brayhorn

 

10 Scarab Terminators (445) 2x Soulreaper Cannon, 2x Hellfyre Missiles, Rites of Coalescence. Presage

 

5 Spawn (115)

 

1999pts, 9CP, 17 Cabal Points

 

 

Similar idea just with the Primarch.

 

- Exalted Sorc is still MW generator as per last list

- DP slightly less durable but also less of the primary threat so may enjoy a longer run

- Magnus takes over buffing the 10 Scarabs, much more reliably (+3 to cast)

- Flame Rubrics can use Risen Rubricae to forward deploy onto an objective

- Terminators probably deep-strike centre and then stay there and get buffed to oblivion

- Second Rubrics advance with characters

[Xenith]

Heya, and welcome to Thousand Sons!

 

I'll add some comments:

 

Making the jump into 1ksons and would appreciate some advice from the veterans out there.

 

Cult of Time, 2x Additional Relics

 

Daemon Prince (185) Warlord (Undying Form), Wings & Sword, Hourglass of Manat. Temporal Manipulation, Twist of Fate 

Consider conniving plate for a 2+ save and better protection in melee. I'd also consider swelled by the warp so he can hit that S10. 

Exalted Sorcerer (160) High Acolyte (Immaterial Echo), Disc, Athenaen Scrolls, Dilettante (Helm of Daemon's Eye). Tzeentch's Firestorm, Doombolt

Infernal Master (90) Umbralefic Crystal. Fires of the Abyss, Malefic Maelstrom. Empyric Guidance

I dont think Empryic guidance will come up too much, presage is much more useful .

 

Terminator Sorcerer (110) Axe, Combi-melta. Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates

 

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame. Pyric Flux

10 Rubrics (230) Soulreaper Cannon, Icon of Flame. Temporal Surge

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon. Gaze of Hate

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon. Perplex

 

10 Scarab Terminators (445) 2x Hellfyre, 2x Soulreaper Cannon, Rites of Coalescence. Presage

These want to be casting time flux each turn to get models back - better to have someone cast presage on them instead. 

 

5 Chaos Spawn (115)

 

Forgefiend (155) 3x Ectoplasma Cannon

 

1999pts, 100PL, 17 Cabal Points, 9CP remaining

 

 

I'll try and explain the plan:

 

- Scarabs and Term Sorc probably deep-strike centrally. Term Sorc provides them with 4++ and -1 to hit. They provide themselves with +1 to hit, and use Great Sorcerer strat to also cast Time Flux to give them two cracks at the whip at scoring a natural 9+, at which point I'll also use Warped Regeneration. So their best case scenario healing is one model back to full wounds (Coalescence) and two models revived (Time Flux, Warped Regen). Hopefully they'll be in cover and can always use the -1D strat so should be survivable.

I wouldn't deepstrike them. It's a large footprint, and you have 25% of your army off board T1, letting your opponent have free reign on your weakest units. 

 

- Infernal Master puts Maelific Maelstrom on the Forgefiend and Empyric Guidance on the first five-man unit of Rubrics and sits comfortably backfield. The Forgefiend will get that crucial S8 ectoplasmas, and the Rubrics will have 30" bolters so hopefully able to contribute shootingwise, and if anythings in range will use Gaze of Hate (or alternatively psychic actions). Also a good candidate for the CP generation Ritual. 

 

- Infernal Master will also use Crystal on the 10 flamer Rubrics. They will be something of a kamikaze, deep-striking in and using Pyric Flux and Wrath of the Wronged to barbecue some infantry. 

 

- Daemon Prince runs amok, should be hard to kill with self-healing, -1D, and Hourglass, and can turn off invuls before charging a key unit (Bladeguard would be its ideal target!)

 

- Second 10-man Rubrics move up the table to reinforce the Terminators, should be able to move quickly with Temporal Surge. They are supported by the Exalted Sorcerer, who is a mortal-wound generator. Will use Scrolls on Tzeentch's Firestorm to hopefully score natural 9+. This then triggers Immaterial Echoes, permitting an undeniable Doombolt buffed with Cabalistic ritual for extra D3 mortal wounds. Finally rounded off with Smite (thanks to Echoes). If not empowered can also pop Malefic Scroll to ensure 3 MW from Smite. Exalted Sorc is also generating CP with Helm.

 

- Second 5-man Rubrics are spare, can hold objectives if needed or advance as required. Perplex is there to maybe have a chance at protecting the backline, can be boosted to 30" range via Ritual, alternatively Smite is always on the table.

 

- 5-man Spawn totally flexible and plug gaps as needed. Can also pull a surprise long-range charge via Temporal Surge

 

 

 

Am I roughly on the right track here? Is it advisable to leave some of the army blank for summoning? 

 

An issue I see with bost lists is a massive spend on characters. The second list in particular is almost 1000pts on characters leaving you with 40 other models at 2000pts. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Thank you Xenith for your comments. I'm still reading a lot and finding my feet with this faction. After playing even a couple of lower-point games using Cult of Duplicity I just think the mobility they bring, and constantly keeping your opponent guessing is too valuable to pass up. Also Warpflamers, my god! They are terrifying. So I've come up with a new list, less spend on characters, more bodies, hopefully more punch too:

 

Daemon Prince (185) Warlord (Undying Form), Wings & Sword, Conniving Plate. Glamour of Tzeentch, Presage

Exalted Sorcerer (150) High Acolytes (Master Misinformator), Disc, Rehati. Tzeentch's Firestorm, Doombolt

Infernal Master (90) Helm of the Daemon's Eye. Glimpse of Eternity, Malefic Maelstrom. Desecration of Worlds

 

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame. Pyric Flux

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame. Pyric Flux

5 Rubrics (129) 4x Warpflamers. Temporal Surge

5 Rubrics (129) 4x Warpflamers. Temporal Surge

10 Cultists (50) Autoguns

10 Cultists (50) Autoguns

 

10 Scarab Occult Terminators (445) 2x Hellfyre Missiles, 2x Soulreaper Cannon, Rites of Coalescence. Weaver of Fates

 

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

 

Mutalith Vortex Beast (145)

 

2,000pts, 9CP, 15 Cabal Points

 

 

Rough Plan

 

- Central core thrust is the Terminators, buffed by the Daemon Prince and Infernal Master. The classic set of buffs for them: +1S to shooting, +1 to hit, -1 to be hit, 4++, re-roll 1s to hit. Infernal Master can also caddy psychic actions whilst still getting his +1S buff out and generating CP.

- Two nasty full Warpflamer squads to deploy as needed. They can share out Wrath of the Wronged and Pyric flux or stack both on one unit. 

- Two smaller Warpflamer squads to bully, can move v fast with a decent Advance roll and Temporal Surge to steal objectives without sacrificing shooting.

- Cultists hold backfield/perform actions, throwaway units

- Spawn another throwaway/quick early objective taker

- Vortex beast a bit of a distraction carnifex but also I think pretty good for his points

- Exalted Sorc is MW generator

Edited February 4, 2022 by Brother Kraskor

[Xenith]

Seems good and fun! With risen Rubricae you can potentially get 2 flame units into the opposing DZ turn 1. Just remember that you cannot advance and fire using the warpflame pistol.

 

Consider 1 temporal surge on the big warpflame units - +1S is nice, but you'll only get to cast one at a time. Flamers can advance and fire, so a unit can potentially temporal surge after an advance to flame a unit 24+d6" away, which is scary. If you do that, you can advance+surge a unit, risen rubricae a unit, and facade a unit to get 3 scary units up the table in T1. Similarly, you can also facade a MONSTER, which can be the prince or the MVB. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Yes I guess I can always Surrus the Pyric Flux if the S5 flamers get destroyed/damaged. 24+D6" flamers... nasty!

[Brother Kraskor]

Been playing a few more games. Cultists really doing absolutely nothing for me. The Daemon Prince has been excellent but wants to play more aggressive, so I think I need to reshuffle the psychic buffs - what more reliable user than Ahriman.

 

Also want to try out a Heldrake because why not!

 

Rethinking the 10-man Terminator block. The -1D strat costing 3CP is just too horrendous, I think two units of five is more flexible and presents less of a 'shoot us' banner.

 

Finally, I think for missions having a Psychic action caddy is mega-helpful, hence the Shaman. Too often I've had to sacrifice important psykers for mission duty. If he's not needed for this he can debuff enemy shooting a bit.

 

+++Cult of Duplicity Battalion+++

 

Exalted Sorcerer (150) Disc, Rehati, Warlord (Master Misinformator), Athenean Scrolls, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Doombolt

Ahriman (160) Disc, Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates, Presage

Daemon Prince (185) Wings & Sword, High Acolytes (Undying Form), Conniving Plate, Swelled by the Warp, Temporal Surge

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame, Pyric Flux

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon, Temporal Surge

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon, Temporal Surge

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon, Temporal Surge

5 Scarab Terminators (215) Soulreaper Cannon, Hellfyre Missile Rack, Temporal Surge

5 Scarab Terminators (215) Soulreaper Cannon, Hellfyre Missile Rack, Temporal Surge

Tzaangor Shaman (70) High Acolytes (Seeker After Shadows), Cacodaemonic Curse

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

Mutalith Vortex Beast (145)

Heldrake (165) Baleflamer

 

1998pts, 18 Cabal Points, 9CP

[Xenith]

Too often I've had to sacrifice important psykers for mission duty. 

 

I feel that - I like an infernal master in this role - you only sacrifice one cast to perform an action, and they can still help out with their rituals

 

List looks fun, it'll be good to see how it performs! A heldrake+facaded MVB and a prince is a lot of pressure T1 - just remember that the prince cannot cast temporal surge on himself - Temporal manipulation might be better to regain wounds? 

[Brother Kraskor]

 

Too often I've had to sacrifice important psykers for mission duty. 

 

I feel that - I like an infernal master in this role - you only sacrifice one cast to perform an action, and they can still help out with their rituals

 

List looks fun, it'll be good to see how it performs! A heldrake+facaded MVB and a prince is a lot of pressure T1 - just remember that the prince cannot cast temporal surge on himself - Temporal manipulation might be better to regain wounds? 

 

 

Infernal Master is a good choice for it definitely. And the +1S to shooting is so powerful for a big terminator blob. I really find I want 4 HQs with this army! Exalted Sorc for MWs, Ahriman for buffs, DP for CC, Infernal Master. 

 

And yes you're right on the power change for DP, I forgot it was limited.

[Brother Kraskor]

Looking at a different approach to the more MSU style. Big blocks of tough Obsec infantry, winning objectives and ultimately winning the game (I hope!).

 

+++Cult of Duplicity Battalion+++

 

Daemon Prince (185) Warlord (Undying Form), Wings, Sword, Conniving Plate, Swelled by the Warp, Temporal Manipulation

Ahriman (180) Disc, Weaver of Fates, Presage, Tzeentch's Firestorm

Infernal Master (90) Gaze of Hate, Glimpse of Eternity, Malefic Maelstrom

 

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Warpflame Pistol, Icon of Flame, Pyric Flux

10 Rubrics (245) Soulreaper Cannon, Plasma Pistol, Icon of Flame, Protege, Doombolt, Temporal Surge

10 Rubrics (230) Soulreaper Cannon, Icon of Flame, Temporal Surge

 

10 Scarab Terminators (445) 2x Soulreaper Cannon, 2x Hellfyre Missile Racks, Rites of Coalescence, Glamour of Tzeentch

 

2 Chaos Spawn (46)

 

Mutalith Vortex Beast (145)

Forgefiend (155) 3x Ectoplasma Cannon

 

2,000pts, 12CP, 15 Cabal Points

 

 

Intended likely secondaries are Domination, WWSWF, and Mutate Landscape. Provided I park my big blocks on objectives I should be able to score Domination & Mutate Landscape, and WWSWF is good because I can teleport the big units to safety as needs be.

[Brother Kraskor]

After a few games I think it's time to retire the Prince and the Vortex Beast. Neither can either successfully kill key targets nor contribute to the mission, and neither are all that tough. 

 

Also finding I don't need the Duplicity teleport nearly as much as I thought. Having the Crystal in the backpocket as a threat is enough to keep the opponent guessing. 

 

So I've come up with something a bit alternative:

 

+++Cult of Scheming Battalion+++

 

Exalted Sorcerer (165) Warlord (Grand Schemer), Disc, Dilletante, Thryddergyre, Cha'Qi'Thyl's Theorem, Weaver of Fates, Temporal Surge

Ahriman (180) Disc, Glamour of Tzeentch, Presage, Tzeentch's Firestorm

Infernal Master (90) Umbralefic Crystal, Glimpse of Eternity, Malefic Maelstrom, Weaver of Fates

 

10 Rubrics (279) 9x Warpflamers, Icon of Flame, Warpflame Pistol, Pyric Flux

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon, Empyric Guidance

5 Rubrics (115) Soulreaper Cannon, Empyric Guidance

10 Tzaangors (70) Herd Banner

 

10 Scarab Terminators (445) 2x Soulreaper Cannon, 2x Hellfyre Missile Rack, Rites of Coalescence, Doombolt

Hellbrute (120) Multi-Melta, Hellbrute Fist

Hellbrute (120) Multi-Melta, Hellbrute Fist

 

5 Chaos Spawn (115)

1 Chaos Spawn (23)

 

Forgefiend (155) 3x Ectoplasma Cannon

 

1997pts, 11CP, 13 Cabal Points

 

 

- 10 Terminators with 2 Hellbrutes and Ahriman represent the tough core and should be able to deal with most threats

- Forgefiend stays at backfield with 5 Rubrics buffing its range 

- Flamer Rubrics on the lookout for prime Crystal drop-in

- Tzaangors and second 5-man Rubrics offer cheap obsec/actions 

- Exalted Sorcerer and 5 Spawn are mobile assault force, also Obsec(!), 4++ buffed

- If something is charged and I don't like the matchup, can use Scheming power to fall back, shoot, and charge, and the Theorem is a free 3CP for -1D on Scarabs

Edited April 10, 2022 by Brother Kraskor