9th Edition Black Legion Rumors

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Exploding 5s on raptor plasma spam... sounds good.

[stayduned]

BL Decimator with Soulburner has Assault Weapons with Exploding 5s sounds really nice, i like the model as well

Edited April 6, 2022 by stayduned

[Sception]

I want to like chosen - I've put a lot of work into my squad - but I'm just kind of skeptical.  With D1 on their melee weapons it seems like they'll have a hard time competing with chainsword Legionaries - who will be cheaper, troops, probably obsec - or the new possessed, who are more likely to earn their elite slot and points premium over Legionaries by being faster, tougher, & much harder hitting.  Faster in particular matters a lot since there haven't been any rumors of new delivery options for melee infantry that I'm aware of.  Which means yet another edition goes by with my prayers for a proper CSM assault transport unanswered - I know the miniature designers at GW make whatever units they think will look cool, rather than what they think a faction needs mechanically, and the rules writers just do the best they can with what they get, but in like 3 decades you'd think ~some~ sculptor would have gotten an idea for a new chaos transport.  They've certainly struck on such inspiration for loyalists more than a few times.  At this point I'd accept a dinobot with a bit dump truck booty that a melee squad can just cling on to to get to combat.

 

As a shooty unit, plasma pistols are shy on range for an infantry squad, and I don't think two combi weapons in 5 is going to be enough offense on a unit that's paying extra for those power weapons on every model, even if they lack the damage to really deliver as a melee unit.  I think the plasma raptor squads already discussed in this thread are likely to eclipse chosen here, by at least as much as possessed are likely to outshine them in melee.

 

But if any legion can make them work, we can.  Objectively so, if that stratagem to make a unit count as another legion bit makes it into the book.  I'll certainly try myself, and be watching threads and discussions to see if anyone else can make them work.

 

 

The other unit I'm looking at with a mix of interest and concern is terminators.  They've got those same accursed D1 weapons that leave their output pretty blunted for a melee specialist unit in this era of W2 marines, while their shooting output is set to be devastated by the new weapon restrictions (my poor converted plasmanators!  At least I never got around to painting them, so I won't be don't be undoing ~as much~ work when I'm forced to rip them apart).  Still, with AoC they'll at least be pretty hard to shift, and they can take a few fists to up their melee threat, so I'm more confident that they'll have a role than I am with the chosen, even if they're still in an iffy place from the rumors alone.

 

 

other thoughts....

 

Legionaries I'm mostly liking the look of.  The big melee push with the lack of good melee infantry delivery options is still a problem, but a troop unit with that many attacks, fisti champ + big axe, packed in psyker, on top of heavy & special options?  Yeah, I can probably work with that.  I personally might have preferred 2 attacks and a cheaper cost to make squads focused on rapid fire over melee more efficient, but for now I'm not complaining.  At least not until I see what the actual point cost is.  I don kind of wish the shrivetalon and annointed had also made the jump from kill team to 40k, but maybe 8 upgrade models per unit of 10 would be asking for too much.  Regardless, if chosen don't work out, I might just run mine as a fancy looking legionary squad.

 

Thanks to Harkon, we at least get to keep one jump lord, something that according to rumors not even Night Lords will have access to.  I'll still miss my jump sorcerer, but it does make those plasma raptors even more enticing.  I'd be tempted to run some warp talons alongside them, but, again, D1 melee specialists just don't seem worth the bother these days.

 

But maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually played 40k in ages, I'm only going on loose impressions.

 

I'm excited for the new cultist stuff.  I always thought the renegades and heretics lot should have a bigger presence in 40k.  Would have preferred them to get their own separate codex, but if not that I'm happy to see more here.  If the rumors pan out then I'll absolutely be adding a squad each of the cultist HQ and fancy mutant cultist units to my pile of models longing to be painted some day.

[Sception]

 

My jump sorcerer

Never painted, never played

He will soon be missed

u_u

Edited April 23, 2022 by Sception

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Looks like a kitbashed master of possession to me.

[Khornestar]

Looks like a kitbashed master of possession to me.

Gotta do it now, Prot Sception!

Edited April 25, 2022 by Khornestar

[Prot]

 

Looks like a kitbashed master of possession to me.

Gotta do it now, Prot!

 

Me? Gotta do what? 

 

I’m can’t kit bash worth beans. 

 

as a side note did I miss something about Termies losing combinweapon options ( sorry I’ve just read so many rumours). 

 

Terminators are my favourite unit in 40K… along side dreads.  I really hope with the new armour rules that we see a lot of good utility here for them. 

[Sception]

Rumors are termies will be limited to the options in the box. Ie, 1x combi plas per 5, 2x combi melta or flamer per 5. Since there aren't enough of any one melee weapon to have any 1 default melee weapon, all of the weapons other than power and chain fists are being homogenized as 'accursed weapons', with some extra strength, an extra attack, and some ap. Only damage 1. One in five can trade their combi bolter for an extra accursed weapon for an extra +1 attack, replacing lightning claws as an option.

 

Personally, I don't mind the homogenization of melee weapons. I don't see the distinctions between chain axes, power axes, power swords, & power mauls as significant enough that it's worth the hassle, and am fine with making the choice between them aesthetic rather than tactical. I would have kept lightning claws, they're kind of iconic for chaos terminators, but whatev.

 

Limiting to box options, even on the limited options that remain, is frustrating though. I'll have to rip apart 6 custom combi-plas from my own squad. It also means anyone with a full lightning claws squad, say someone who converted Abby's bodyguard as described in lore, is also out of luck.

 

I'm not a big fan of the 'no options outside of what's in the box' policy. It's just unfun, and on gw's part blunt and dumb and obvious. They already had to walk it back for eldar autarchs - after a warcom article that went out of its way to point out how cool it was that the new and old autarch kits were compatible and you could mix and match pieces between them, the codex came out with an entry that explicitly prevented you from mixing weapons from both kits on the same model. The autarch on the eldar cover art itself displayed an illegal combination of gear.

 

So yeah, embarassing and unfun, all to stamp down on, what, bits resellers? 3rd party bits venders? Tsk.

[Khornestar]

 

 

Looks like a kitbashed master of possession to me.

 

Gotta do it now, Prot!

Me? Gotta do what?

 

I’m can’t kit bash worth beans.

 

as a side note did I miss something about Termies losing combinweapon options ( sorry I’ve just read so many rumours).

 

Terminators are my favourite unit in 40K… along side dreads. I really hope with the new armour rules that we see a lot of good utility here for them.

Somehow mixed my posts up above :P . Sception! Fixed. Edited April 25, 2022 by Khornestar

[Sception]

Bah, I've already got a Master of Possession, and I'm quite happy with the official model there. As for my sorcerer, I see three options, assuming the rumors are true. 1) leave him as is, the wings are just decorative for now, and hope some future codex restores the jump option in some form. 2) rip off the wings, put the sorcerer's original backpack back. The big lance and raptor helmet might seem a bit out of place then, but so be it. 3) remove the arm with the psychic glyph, replace it with a warp talon claw, & use the model as Haarkon Worldclaimer, since I never never picked up the official model due to worries about it being a bit too fragile.

 

Right now I'm leaning towards option 1, but we'll see. I don't want to do anything drastic until the codex is out and any lost options are officially confirmed.

[techsoldaten]

I'm not a big fan of the 'no options outside of what's in the box' policy. It's just unfun, and on gw's part blunt and dumb and obvious. 

 

CSM suffer the most from this policy, given the central role our HQs play in many armies. Without a jump pack, Sorcerers won't be getting in place to do what they need to. Overall loss of value for the unit.

 

I hear Havocs will still be able to take things not on the sprue. So maybe this isn't absolute.

[Sception]

Havocs seem to be the exception yeah. As for sorcerers & lords, there's at least still terminator versions that can deep strike into position. I wouldn't mind the loss of jump nearly as much if we had any transport options capable of delivering 10 marines /and/ an hq or two outside of forgeworld.

 

At least our lords supposedly still get weapon options.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Right... 2 non-primaris units.

 

Strictly speaking though 1 non-Primaris Space Marine unit, and 1 unit that isn’t a Space Marine unit at all, kinda like Cultist aren’t CSM units.

 

Rumors are termies will be limited to the options in the box. Ie, 1x combi plas per 5, 2x combi melta or flamer per 5. Since there aren't enough of any one melee weapon to have any 1 default melee weapon, all of the weapons other than power and chain fists are being homogenized as 'accursed weapons', with some extra strength, an extra attack, and some ap. Only damage 1. One in five can trade their combi bolter for an extra accursed weapon for an extra +1 attack, replacing lightning claws as an option.

 

Personally, I don't mind the homogenization of melee weapons. I don't see the distinctions between chain axes, power axes, power swords, & power mauls as significant enough that it's worth the hassle, and am fine with making the choice between them aesthetic rather than tactical. I would have kept lightning claws, they're kind of iconic for chaos terminators, but whatev.

 

Limiting to box options, even on the limited options that remain, is frustrating though. I'll have to rip apart 6 custom combi-plas from my own squad. It also means anyone with a full lightning claws squad, say someone who converted Abby's bodyguard as described in lore, is also out of luck.

 

I'm not a big fan of the 'no options outside of what's in the box' policy. It's just unfun, and on gw's part blunt and dumb and obvious. They already had to walk it back for eldar autarchs - after a warcom article that went out of its way to point out how cool it was that the new and old autarch kits were compatible and you could mix and match pieces between them, the codex came out with an entry that explicitly prevented you from mixing weapons from both kits on the same model. The autarch on the eldar cover art itself displayed an illegal combination of gear.

 

So yeah, embarassing and unfun, all to stamp down on, what, bits resellers? 3rd party bits venders? Tsk.

As a BA player this worries me because my VV, DC and Sang Guard are probably going to get the same treatment.

 

Edit 1: Probably Sternguard too. I’m also worried we’ll loose our plasma, melta and special weapons on our RAS and even heavy flamers on our tactical squad now that the BA tactical squad is no longer available for whatever reason.

 

Edit 2: As a prospective/future Black Legion player it es me of to no end Imperials probably WON’T get this treatment.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Captain Smashy Pants

[techsoldaten]

 

Edit 2: As a prospective/future Black Legion player it es me of to no end Imperials probably WON’T get this treatment.

 

Loyalists have been getting this treatment. More with the Primaris models, but increasingly with other ones.

 

So I wouldn't let that get to you. I'm more concerned about the idea most units will now have mixed loadouts and not specialize the way they once did.  

[Balthamal]

I want to like chosen - I've put a lot of work into my squad - but I'm just kind of skeptical.  With D1 on their melee weapons it seems like they'll have a hard time competing with chainsword Legionaries - who will be cheaper, troops, probably obsec - or the new possessed, who are more likely to earn their elite slot and points premium over Legionaries by being faster, tougher, & much harder hitting.  Faster in particular matters a lot since there haven't been any rumors of new delivery options for melee infantry that I'm aware of.  Which means yet another edition goes by with my prayers for a proper CSM assault transport unanswered - I know the miniature designers at GW make whatever units they think will look cool, rather than what they think a faction needs mechanically, and the rules writers just do the best they can with what they get, but in like 3 decades you'd think ~some~ sculptor would have gotten an idea for a new chaos transport.  They've certainly struck on such inspiration for loyalists more than a few times.  At this point I'd accept a dinobot with a bit dump truck booty that a melee squad can just cling on to to get to combat.

 

 

The kicker for chosen will be how well the potential warband trait selection can work out, think with that, doctrines, super doctrines, and some strats there could be the kind of customisability we haven't had since the golden age of 3.5. The flip side to that however is how versatile legionnaires are looking between being core, having strats, a large loadout array and extra upgrades to make them sexy. 

 

 

The main issue we'll have, as always, however is the fact that GW just aren't capable of translating what makes chaos, well, chaos and transferring it to the tabletop. They continuously bang on about making csm not just sm with spikes and extra eyes but then deliberately dial back on the things that actually set csm and sm apart. For the bulk of the Legions, there should be csm squads like legionnaires/chosen/terminators/havocs with a boatload of options and variations to offset the fact that vanilla sm have like 15 or 16 dataslates as well as doctrines/strats/etc to adjust how they function. The big point of difference should be the daemonic elements - so LOTS of daemon engines (not 4), having cult troops not kill the detachment bonus while also keeping them as their fairly good codex versions (at least in the case of rubricae and plague marines) is a decent effort, but more than anything, summon daemons - that's what chaos do fgs.

 

 

Yeah yeah the whole "free models" issue will still be a thing but I find it hard to believe there's no mechanic that could be put in place to offset mediocrity in how the majority of lists function because of how many other factions get their "signature" characteristics put in play - all Eldar are fast, Orks bulk up well, Tau have clever guns, etc etc etc