Axes vs Spears

[Captain Idaho]

Let's start a discussion on the merits of both and when to equip a unit or model with either. Excuse the somewhat confrontational topic title somewhat, it's much more concise. ;)

 

So Spears are everywhere and we know and love them. Range 24" means we can put down reasonable firepower down the table. Our Custodians will generally have Spears, or at least a few.

 

The Wardens and Allarus? I used to be all about the Spears since AP-3 is very important against 2+ saves but I found Custodes are a very Command Point hungry force. Why does this matter? Well you can't use Slayer of Nightmares ALL the time when you're using those CPs for other stuff after all eh!

 

And rolling 2+ and 3+ to wound against most infantry and monsters/vehicles helps a bunch as well.

 

So the crux of the matter is probably; AP-3 vs S8? Both are benchmarks in the game for good performance.

 

For my Allarus, I'm thinking of a unit of 5 with 2 Spears and 3 Axes. Best of both worlds?

Edited February 8, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Woden]

Great question here! I think, it's depend of wich host you'll play.

 

For exemple, with Dreadhost : obviously axe is a better choice : S9 PA-3

 

Now, with Emperor Choosen, you can take axe or spear, depend of your match style : you want your Allarus to destroy every unit with high E or horde : no problem with change host strat

 

In my opinion, mixing weapon for allarus and warden is not something to do, they have a job to do in one way for your plan, not both.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm Shadowkeepers so I guess it depends on my use of the units with Axes...

 

I'll have to have a think for my Allarus. Axes could very useful since they're likely dropping in and coming up against monsters, vehicles and Invulnerable saves.

 

The Shield Captain is happy with his Spear. He rerolls hits and wounds against all and characters respectively, whilst getting +1 to wound against Monsters, characters and vehicles and ignores the Invulnerable saves on characters. This means high AP is more important to him.

 

*******

 

Talking about mixing... it doesn't feel like a good choice to mix stuff up, but then in the combination I suggested earlier the unit still gets 8 attacks with Spears and 12 with Axes... still a lot.

 

Blood Angels have done it for ages in Sanguinary Guard after all?

[OttoVonAwesome]

If GW keeps adding a bypass to -1 dmg and other toughness rules with str 8 or higher then Axes are really a no brainer. I've built my Wardens and Vexilla with them and have no regrets.

[Galthan Ironsturm]

Use magnets...;)

[AfroCampbell]

If GW keeps adding a bypass to -1 dmg and other toughness rules with str 8 or higher then Axes are really a no brainer. I've built my Wardens and Vexilla with them and have no regrets.

 

Have I missed something? Is this a thing??

[Galthan Ironsturm]

Guardians Vexila can take spear, axe or shield now, and Misericordia if not wear à shield.

Allarus Vexila can take Misericordia only.

[Captain Idaho]

 

If GW keeps adding a bypass to -1 dmg and other toughness rules with str 8 or higher then Axes are really a no brainer. I've built my Wardens and Vexilla with them and have no regrets.

 

 

Have I missed something? Is this a thing??

I know Orks the Ranshackle rule but perhaps it has further spread to other new factions. Maybe Genestealer Cult?

[Feral_80]

Drukarii were just fixed to conform to that as well.

Let us hope that's the new trend.

 

Too bad the iconic spear was quite useless already, compared to the less iconic axe (and shield/sword).

[Captain Idaho]

Spears are good against everything else. The pity is GW are making factions within Codex books as auto-picks which is not great game design.

[OttoVonAwesome]

 

 

If GW keeps adding a bypass to -1 dmg and other toughness rules with str 8 or higher then Axes are really a no brainer. I've built my Wardens and Vexilla with them and have no regrets.

 

Have I missed something? Is this a thing??

I know Orks the Ranshackle rule but perhaps it has further spread to other new factions. Maybe Genestealer Cult?

 

Drukhari Thicc city had this rule added, Tau has a -1 Str only works on str 7 and below, it seems to be the new trend going forward for these types of rules.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm glad they're reducing the impact of rules like that, so the Axes are very relevant for Custodes.

[Woden]

For me, it's depend what you'll fight.

 

Axe is good, very good, wound on 2+ most every infantry is good, now we know that there are a tone of trick to reduce it (druk, SM, Cult) or/and ignore rend -1/-2 (or have a high save, like all things with sheild).

 

So, magnet is our friend, like that we can choose wisely before a match or tournament.

[Captain Idaho]

I built my Allarus with Axes now, simply because S8 is so essential. I'm not so hot at magnetising but I'm sure I'll never need to (famous last words).

 

I've got a bunch of AP-3 in my lists anyway, plus the Lockwarden will be a power house.

 

The beauty of axes in his men whilst he has a Spear is Slayer of Tyrants. I can use that Strategum on the Shield Captain whilst the squad can S8 anyway. :)

Edited February 18, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Captain Idaho]

Been thinking about the Axes in light of the new Armour of Contempt rules... the minus one AP really hurts Axes which is a shame. I've crunched some numbers though and the performance wounding on 2s vs 3s mitigates that somewhat and gives similar results in casualties received.

 

So I still feel Axes are worthwhile in a take all comers list as you can use those Axes to wound Tyranids Monsters on a 4 or smash vehicles too.

 

My only regret is the Axes don't get an additional special rule to ignore damage reduction rules. That would make the choice between weapons much more difficult.

[.Torch.]

For me, it's Spears now. I think Axes have their place, but with the changes to OBSEC and the new Armour of Contempt rule I just can't seem to fit a lot of them in my list. My Allarus Terminator Shield Captain runs with a Spear nowadays.

 

I used to really like Axe Wardens, but as they are no longer scoring its Spear Guard all the way for me at the moment.

 

I still like them on Allarus Terminators, but find myself taking Spears more often than not and relying on Slayers of Nightmares for the +1 to wound.

Edited April 26, 2022 by .Torch.

[Captain Idaho]

I am concerned my Axes are much reduced in effectiveness as the edition carries on.

 

Still, against Tyranid monsters we have to contend with toughness 8 generally, so will see Axes as relevant again. Just is it enough?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

With dreadhost? Sure. But we are dealing with more damage mitigation than ever. Feels bad

[Captain Idaho]

I'd use Shadowkeepers exclusively, since that's my theme. The damage mitigation is fairly painful for Custodes. -1 damage is horrible (our Auric weapons should ignore it actually) since most of our combat methods rely on D2 weapons.

 

Getting a decent number of wounding hits through higher Strength could be a method to combat that, with targets that have 4+ Invulnerable saves generally not making much of a difference to the lower AP of the Axes. That's what I'm hoping anyway...

Edited April 28, 2022 by Captain Idaho