Cannot target unit effects - GSC and Tau Codex

[Trokair]

Between the recent GSC Codex and the Tau codex I have encountered two very similar abilities and I am not sure I understand the full implication of the wording on certain scenarios. In both cases it is a inability to target a unit under two conditions with a or clause and I think that is where my confusion comes in.

 

The two abilities:

Lurk In The Shadows

Use this Stratagem at the start of your opponent’s Shooting phase. Select one GENESTEALER CULTS INFANTRY unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, each time an enemy model shoots, if that unit is not the closest eligible target or within 12” of that enemy model, then until that shooting is resolved, that enemy model cannot target that unit. In addition, until the end of the phase, if the selected unit has the Bodyguard ability (see Locus datasheet), it loses that ability.

 

 

and

Stealth Field Generator

This unit cannot be selected as a target for ranged attacks unless it is the closest eligible target to the firing model or the firing model is within 18” of it.

 

 

My understanding:

If the unit is the closest eligible unit I can shoot it.

If the unit is not the closes eligible unit but I am within 12” and 18” respectively I can select the unit as the target of my ranged attack because of the bit after the or.

 

Now here is where I am uncertain:

If I am more than 12” or 18” away, but there are no other eligible targets at all ( for example due to line of sight or insufficient range on my weapons (say 24” and all enemy other units are 25”+ away) can I shoot the unit?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

No.  Neither rule has an exception for being the sole available target.

[Dam13n]

In the case of range, if they are outside of the 12/18" limit but all other targets are out of range by virtue of being 25"+ away, then by definition the affected enemy unit must be the closest enemy unit, thus fulfilling the other criteria by which they may be targeted.

[Rogue]

I think these are different, rules-wise.

 

Lurk in the Shadows is very restrictive. The target unit must be the closest eligible target and within 12". Both conditions must be fulfilled before they can be shot.

 

But the wording of the Stealth Field Generator is different, and allows for either scenario - if the target unit is closest eligible target (at any range), or if it is within 18" (regardless of other eligible targets).

 

So the Tau rule allows your unit to be targeted if either condition is met (closest or within 18"), whereas the GSC rule only allows the unit to be targeted if both conditions are met (closest and within 12").

Edited February 10, 2022 by Rogue

[Trokair]

Could you clarify on the GSC stratagem, why is it both conditions? As it is an or and not a and betwen the conditions.

 

 

Then again, if despite the similar wording, the two functions differently that might be why I am getting confused.

[Rogue]

The Tau rule sets up a condition (unit cannot be selected as a target), and then provides exemptions to that condition (unless). Here, the *or* between the two exemptions (target is closest, target is within 18") indicates that if either exemption is met, the unit can be targeted.

 

The GSC rule is worded less clearly, as it sets up the exemptions before establishing the condition. But the key difference is the use of the word *not* in the middle.

 

Again, the rule is setting up a condition (unit cannot be targeted). This time, the wording (specifically the combination not/or) tells us that both conditions must be fulfilled to establish the exemption - unit not closest, can't target; *or* unit not within 12", can't target.

 

Imagine that I have a unit lurking in the shadows 15" from your unit, but it is the closest target. You want to shoot at them. "If the unit is not the closest target, you cannot target the unit" - that's fine, I am the closest target. But the *or* gives an alternative: "If the unit is not within 12", you cannot target the unit". I'm not within 12", so you can't target me.

 

Roughly speaking, the *not/or* combination functions as an *and*. You could rewrite the rule to say "If the unit is the closest eligible target and within 12", you may target the unit", which would be clearer.

 

Or to look at it another way, the wording of the Tau rule gives the shooter two different ways to bypass the rule and target the unit - if either is met, you can go ahead and shoot. But the GSC rule gives the target unit two different ways to avoid being shot - if either is met, you can't shoot them.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Rogue

[Trokair]

Right, I see your logic. Thank you for explaing. 

[BluejayJunior]

I don't agree with Rogue's explanation at all. Not+or does not equal and. If both requirements were meant to be met, the rule would use and instead of or. 

I agree that it definitely needs cleared up because it is worded in a weird way. But the way it's worded right now, it says that it can't be targeted unless it is the closest or within 12". 

[Rogue]

Not sure I agree. 

 

It feels like there's at least one missing word in the sentence. If it said "...if that unit is not the closest eligible target or not within 12" of that enemy model..." (which is how I'm reading it, with both clauses related to the not (because there's no comma or similar to start a new clause)), I think that would be less ambiguous.

 

Otherwise, we'd have to rewrite it to say something more like "...if that unit is not the closest eligible target (unless it is within 12" of that enemy model)..." to achieve your version, Bluejay, where being within 12" just overwrites the closest target thing. I think that would be a valid rule, but I don't think it's the rule here. Otherwise, you could word it all like the Tau one - you can't target this unit unless it is closest, or within 12". They didn't do that, which makes me think that's not what they were going for.

[Rogue]

I was thinking about this a bit more, and there's definitely something odd in the wording here. If we trim it down to just look at the second part of the GSC rule, it reads like this:

 

"...each time an enemy model shoots, if that unit is ... within 12” of that enemy model, then until that shooting is resolved, that enemy model cannot target that unit."

 

Which doesn't really work at all, in the context of the wider rule and its purpose. This is why I think you need to apply the *not* to this condition as well, because it doesn't make sense if you don't.

 

And at that point, we have two conditions, both based on not, and if either condition is meet, you can't target the unit. Not the closest? Can't target. Not within 12"? Can't target. Closest and within 12"? Can target. (And that's what I mean about *not/or* being similar to *and* - it's not a direct swap, but ends up doing something similar.)

 

All that said, I'm not a rules expert, and the intent of the rule might be different to the linguistic reality of it. I'd like to get it right, because I might use this stratagem one day, and I'd rather not get into a big discussion at that point.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Rogue