Agrax and retardant medium?

[Tyriks]

Hey everyone. I have been u sing Agrax over white to make bone armor plating on my Eldar. It has been working pretty well but I have trouble with it pooling, especially on tall thin stuff like the Wraithlord. Has anyone tried mixing in paint retardant medium with Agrax for something like this? I'm wondering if giving myself a little more dry time would help keep it from getting sloppy. Any info appreciated!

[Grotsmasha]

I'd be trying out the Contrast Medium (instead of Lahmian Medium) with it as it does help contrast paints with pooling, but really I'd recommend giving Skeleton Horde a go too, it's quite good. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

You could try mixing anything with alcohol in it (I don't know if the retardant does), as that will lower the surface tension. As Grotsmasha mentioned, Contrast Medium likely has some degree of alcohol in it and could help. Any surfactant would help though, the main thing is that you'd want to lower surface tension to lower pooling.

[Tyriks]

I'd be trying out the Contrast Medium (instead of Lahmian Medium) with it as it does help contrast paints with pooling, but really I'd recommend giving Skeleton Horde a go too, it's quite good.

 

FWIW I am talking about an actual acrylic retarder, not Lahmian Medium. I do like Skeleton Horde but it's a bit bright for what I'm doing. The contrast medium could be worth a look but I would likely have to use very small quantities to avoid changing the color overmuch. Still, definitely worth consideration. Thanks

 

You could try mixing anything with alcohol in it (I don't know if the retardant does), as that will lower the surface tension. As Grotsmasha mentioned, Contrast Medium likely has some degree of alcohol in it and could help. Any surfactant would help though, the main thing is that you'd want to lower surface tension to lower pooling.

So as it is, I occasionally get tiny little pinpricks of white that show through the Agrax already, and I would be worried about making those more likely. They seem to be surface tension related, maybe the pigments receding as whatever medium they use dries up. Those tend to be a but easier to fix than pooling but I don't want to make them common. Unless you think there's some other solution/explanation for those happening

[Firedrake Cordova]

I'd go with Grotsmasha's suggestion to try adding Contrast Medium - I'm guessing it contains a retarder of some sorts as it does not dry quickly (it also "improves" the GW Shades by making them stay on the raised areas less). Depending on the amount you add, it may mean you want a second coat of Shade, but that may not be a bad thing (more control, etc - Trovarion uses Contrast paints thinned with medium as a "better wash"). If you're looking for a pure retarder, I'd have a look at Liquitex's Slo-Dri fluid retarder.

[Arkhanist]

I have used liquid slow-dri with GW and army painter washes. It does pretty much what it says on the tin, it keeps the wash liquid workable for a little bit longer. Obviously it is transparent, and will make the wash a bit less opaque depending upon how much you use; more of it will delay drying longer. It doesn't particularly affect flow properties, so it won't alter how pools form or eventually dry, just how long you have to manually soak them up by brush before you get tide rings forming. The effect on drying time isn't huge like say the difference between oils and acrylics, but it is noticeable.

 

For affecting flow, something like flow aid/improver will make the wash more willing to seek out crevices and avoid high areas more, as well as make it more fluid generally. Note, flow aid normally is used heavily diluted with water (artist supplies need to be diluted before use; you can also buy it ready to use, such as vallejo airbrush flow improver), so you don't need much or it can affect paint binding to the model. For more of a panel lining effect, it definitely helps, especially if you're trying to pin wash. You will get more pools in large crevices though if you put on a heavy wash, as it will more easily run down the model, so you will need to soak them up with a brush. Flow aid is also a handy thing to have to break up more 'clumpy' or 'chalky' normal paints, and get them to flow off the brush easier, and does have a small drying retarder effect also.

 

I've now switched to using Contrast medium with washes, rather than flow aid. Flow aid does make the wash a bit harder to control, being less viscous and more willing to wick into or overspill into other areas. Contrast medium gives a similar recess-seeking effect, while keeping the other wash properties, including viscosity, similar. I've seen wash+contrast medium described as 'super washes', and I'd agree with that. Obviously if you want a strong overall tone effect in one coat it's not suitable, but for say nuln oil over metallics, it gives a more pleasing effect with less pools and staining on flat areas for me without needing to go the effort of a pin wash. I think it does also have some retarder equivalent in it also.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Arkhanist

[Tyriks]

Wow, tons of info there, thanks. What proportions of contrast medium to wash are you guys using?

[Arkhanist]

I usually go for around 1:3 i.e. 1 part medium to 3 parts wash; you don't need to be super precise. More medium will make the wash more subtle, which can be useful at times. Here's the video where I got the tip from, so you can see the effect.

 

[Tallarn Commander]

For the last couple of years I've been using oil paints as washes on larger surfaces. I've noticed oil washes tend to pool much more "realistically" than acrylic washes, although the long drying time (up to 1 to 2 days) and the cleanup are not so fun. A nice oil brown, sepia, or burnt umber might replicate Agrax Earthshade.