Theory Hammer: A List Without Dreadknights

[librisrouge]

So, I was playing at my FLGS the other day and another player brought up a great point, namely that all competitive GK lists have 4 dreadknights in them (more in some cases but that isn't legal now). I acknowledged that he was right since I've not seen a powerful GK list that defied this but countered his claims that I was just power gaming by stating how much I'd always loved dreadknights anyway and had always fielded quite a bit.

 

It did get me thinking though, can Grey Knights be competitive without dreadknights?

 

I'm honestly not sure, so I figured I'd consult the wisdom of the internet.

 

A few things to consider first:

• This is about competitive gaming specifically. Obviously, GKs can still be fun to play and even win the occasional game without dreadknights but I'm talking about making a top tier curbstomper list.
• If not dreadknights, what? This is probably the biggest hang up in GKs. We just don't have a lot of options and if you drop dreadknights, what do you replace them with?
• The GMNDK is nearly an auto-include in GK lists. What, if anything, does he get replaced with?

Since I'm not just going to come to the discussion empty handed, I figured I'd start with a few ideas for lists that might be competitive without dreadknights.

 

March of the Ancients

Out boxnaughts are just as good as the basic ones. Our techmarines are a slight bit worse for not being able to become a master of the forge. Despite that, I think there might be a strength to a GK list with 3+ dreadnoughts and a techmarine or two. Clearly, they wouldn't pull the same weight as a SM list with three redemptors and a MotF but they'd do a similarish job with less points and the benefits of more psychic powers. Even just Armored Resiliance can make a world of difference against some enemies. Fill the rest of the list with some boys in silver and march forward.

 

Interceptors Intercepting

30 interceptors is something I've been often tempted by. In a lot of ways, they're the premier assault marines. They're the fastest, thanks to Etherial Castigation, and are probably the best shooting assault marines, thanks to heavy weapon access and storm bolters. They hit just as well as Vanguard Veterans since each is packing a force weapon. The problems come from durability since they have no good way to get an invulnerable and storm shields are just so awesome. Plus, we utterly lack any fast characters so we'd be relying on Gate of Infinity to keep a force multiplier on hand. Still, with the right commander this could be a great force.

 

All the Silver

Just take a bunch of strike marines. They'd put a lot of MWs and bolt shots out. Each is solid in melee. Objectives win games. Mix in an apothecary or two for some FNP. See how many marines an opponent can kill and try to play cagey.

 

What do you guys think? Can a top tier competitive Grey Knights list be made without dreadknights?

[Brother Lunkhead]

Nice topic Your observations on the strengths and weaknesses of alternate choices look good. Playing an elite army like the GK definitely has its challenges. We have a much smaller toy box than other SM players, and that can be frustrating. Unfortunately, I'm just not seeing an optimal choice to replace the DK.

 

As all of my GK play over the past few years has been in Kill Team, I don't bring any special insight to this problem. I'll be very interested to see what more experienced players have to say

[BloodyB]

I think that you have a good point, especially when you mention how good regular GK are. The Strike Squad is an amazingly versatile troops choice, every bit as capable of hosing down infantry as they are dispensing melee-focused pain. The big issue I have is that the other supporting squads are all so tempting as well! They each have excellent stratagems and powers to call upon to do their jobs with ease, let down primarily by the fact they are expensive to field.

 

I don't know if they could be top tier, but massed GK (if you can call such an elite force as such) could do some good work. Given that Purgation squads cost the same as Strike squ ads, I would mix them a bit for more firepower, every little counts, especially against dug in opponents. I would keep some units back, maybe armed with incinerators, to challenge your opponent's objectives and to run interference on their attacks. If you have the points to spare, making those interceptors can allow them to make full use of their mobility after that arrival.

 

In each unit I would try to take a hammer, as a limited anti-tank option. GK struggle with that, maybe taking a few servitors with multimeltas could help? They are cheap if nothing else. A dreadnought with Las/missiles might be the better option.

 

I think that this is an interesting thought experiment, I enjoy seeing the meta get shaken often, it makes ure the game doesn't get stale (and that eBay is going to be flush with models for sale).