SoT book 7: Echoes of Eternity - Aaron Dembski-Bowden

[Karhedron]

I can't recall any fluff between the Scouring and Armageddon I. Much of intervening history has been left blank with just certain events like the War of the Beast cover it so far.

 

Personally I don't think Sanguinius and Angron will fight for dramatic reasons. We know Sanguinius cannot die this day so Angron cannot win outright. Sanguinius beating Daemon Angron seems unlikely since we know ascension is a definite power-up (look at Mortarion and Khan). Also Sanguinius taking down Angron would feel like a rehash of the fight with Ka Band'ha.

 

We don't know for sure that something has to stop Angron. All the Daemon Primarchs could be hammering down the defenses right up until the point Horus and the Emperor have their boss-fight. In the old fluff, the Traitor legions withdrew in good order when they realised Horus had lost. While not providing as much material for inter-Primarch conflict, that approach still has merit. Very few characters have the power to stop a Daemon Primarch and we know that most of the people who could do it either do not die or die against other opponents.

[grailkeeper]

Has Ka'Banda said anything in any of the Blood Angels books along the lines of "I fought your primarch at the eternity gates"?

[Scribe]

Prediction, it's Kabanda, but he comes in after Sanguinius has already held the line for hours/days, and is seemingly on his last legs.

 

Kabanda takes on a weakened Sanguinius, giving it some narrative push, since we know he can't/doesn't lose, we get some sweet ADB dialogue, and then he breaks his back.

 

Angron I believe is noted as leaving the field on his own in the end, I'm not sure that's going to jive with his recent portrayal, but I do believe that's how it went.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Is it possible that sangunius will leverage his ability to get into Angron’s mind (as per earlier Siege novels - was it the First Wall?  Or Saturnine?) to somehow eliminate him from the battle?  Could there even be a peaceful end, as crazy as that might sound?  Could sangunius somehow connect with the pre-nails Angron?  I just don’t see how he can best him in any traditional battle, and no one left in the Siege would stand a chance against him (except perhaps Dorn, but apparently he’s off at Bhab).  

[Carach]

would be interesting, to see the Angron as he could have been in a mindwar. 

 

The last 10k years are actually Angron raging with sadness that he lost the only guy that could calm his mind? lmao. 

 

Having said that; Perty bested him to get him to the siege in the first place, so it is doable. Just gotta be smart.

[Moonreaper666]

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

[Scribe]

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

 

Imperial Resources? However many are needed for the story.

 

Magus - Was just there for his soul. I believe his arc is concluded.

Fulgrim - Had to be compelled with his True Name to go there, he's already quit the siege.

Angron - Just there to be a force of nature. He has no further narrative key contributes.

[darkhorse0607]

 

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

Angron - Just there to be a force of nature. He has no further narrative key contributes.

 

 

Which is sad to me. I get that it's his point in the story now to break things and rampage, but I had hoped to get a sliver more character development for him post transformation. Even if just a glimpse

 

[Scribe]

 

 

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

Angron - Just there to be a force of nature. He has no further narrative key contributes.

 

 

Which is sad to me. I get that it's his point in the story now to break things and rampage, but I had hoped to get a sliver more character development for him post transformation. Even if just a glimpse

 

 

 

I think there was a short, where he was chained in his ship and fed slaves/troops/anything.

 

Then Slaves to Darkness, hes already lost, as are most of the World Eaters.

 

There's really not much more to do or say. 'Freedom'/Bliss = Nails Lost. That's what they are by this stage, and the last last last step, is utter self destruction.

[Taliesin]

The regular hardback is now up for pre-order on Amazon for September.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Echoes-Eternity-7-Aaron-Dembski-Bowden/dp/1800260881/ref=sr_1_5?Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=20&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=2&qid=1645699113&refinements=p_30%3Agames+workshop&s=books&sr=1-5&unfiltered=1

 

That unfortunately makes it clear they have gone back to releasing the limited editions a few months before the hardback/e-book, which really sucks.

[theSpirea]

The regular hardback is now up for pre-order on Amazon for September.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Echoes-Eternity-7-Aaron-Dembski-Bowden/dp/1800260881/ref=sr_1_5?Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=20&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=2&qid=1645699113&refinements=p_30%3Agames+workshop&s=books&sr=1-5&unfiltered=1

 

That unfortunately makes it clear they have gone back to releasing the limited editions a few months before the hardback/e-book, which really sucks.

 

I'm fine if they stick to 3 months exclusive period for LEs, if refuse to move LEs to SEs. Not the recent 1year+, it's just dividing the fan base and people have to avoid discussion groups and forums for too long to avoid spoilers.

[DukeLeto69]

IMHO people who want the shiny special limited editions will still buy them as they are collectors. They should simultaneously release the standard hardback so the community buzz can build creating word of mouth and allow us to all enjoy together.

[Fire Golem]

IMHO people who want the shiny special limited editions will still buy them as they are collectors. They should simultaneously release the standard hardback so the community buzz can build creating word of mouth and allow us to all enjoy together.

Yeah, Warhawk was released simultaneously and the LE still sold out in the usual 5 minutes or whatever. I only just managed to grab one still. 

[Scribe]

IMHO people who want the shiny special limited editions will still buy them as they are collectors. They should simultaneously release the standard hardback so the community buzz can build creating word of mouth and allow us to all enjoy together.

 

Correct, but BL is absolutely hopeless.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

Imperial Resources? However many are needed for the story.

 

Magus - Was just there for his soul. I believe his arc is concluded.

Fulgrim - Had to be compelled with his True Name to go there, he's already quit the siege.

Angron - Just there to be a force of nature. He has no further narrative key contributes.

I don't want 'as many Elves/Eldar as the Plot denands' BS

 

Mortis has the Traitor Titans decimating what's left of their Loyalist counterparts

 

There is no way Sanginius can defeat all of Legio Mortis alone then there are the Warmaster Titans plus the hordes of monstrosities that will be unleashed by the Dark Mechanicum

 

Besides, Dis Irae has Plot Armor unlike Sanginius

 

Fulgrim should attack the Bhab Bastion one last time just to decimate the Fists and emotionally damage Dorn

 

Angron should attack the Palace head on and reap a bloody toll on the Blood Angels, Skitarii, Custodes, Knights and Titans

 

Magnus then attacks the Palace and decimates the Loyalist Death Guard/Blackshields and the Sisters of Silence

 

Daemons should form a massive horde and attack Corswain and his Dark Angels

 

Ramp up the despair and brutality from Warhawk up to Eleven

[Noserenda]

I would quite like to see Magnus v Anathema psykarna, then we can once and for all confirm Magnus done something wrong

Hearing the regular editions are being artificially delayed again is a bummer though :/ 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Noserenda

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

Imperial Resources? However many are needed for the story.

 

Magus - Was just there for his soul. I believe his arc is concluded.

Fulgrim - Had to be compelled with his True Name to go there, he's already quit the siege.

Angron - Just there to be a force of nature. He has no further narrative key contributes.

I don't want 'as many Elves/Eldar as the Plot denands' BS

 

Mortis has the Traitor Titans decimating what's left of their Loyalist counterparts

 

There is no way Sanginius can defeat all of Legio Mortis alone then there are the Warmaster Titans plus the hordes of monstrosities that will be unleashed by the Dark Mechanicum

 

Besides, Dis Irae has Plot Armor unlike Sanginius

 

Fulgrim should attack the Bhab Bastion one last time just to decimate the Fists and emotionally damage Dorn

 

Angron should attack the Palace head on and reap a bloody toll on the Blood Angels, Skitarii, Custodes, Knights and Titans

 

Magnus then attacks the Palace and decimates the Loyalist Death Guard/Blackshields and the Sisters of Silence

 

Daemons should form a massive horde and attack Corswain and his Dark Angels

 

Ramp up the despair and brutality from Warhawk up to Eleven

Except that the traitors actually need to be broken once Horus dies, not in a position where their leaders death is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

That's why perturabo left, fulgrim left and mortarion got banished. That's why the sons of Horus command structure got decimated. That's why Khârn got killed. They're not systematically crushing the loyalists only to get scoured by Horus' death; they're hemorrhaging discipline and control while grinding the defenses down. That's why Horus needs to gamble to let down the shields; his forces were a complete mess and extremely vulnerable to the rescue fleet.

 

Like the books have made it clear that the iron warriors made a lot of defensive positions in space and on terra to ward off the rescue fleet. You can't have the traitors be extremely competent, have them continue to man them, launch coordinated strikes on all the problem areas, be on the verge of winning and then just run away when the figurehead dies. That's just bad writing.

 

Maybe it reads different on lexicanum tho

[Taliesin]

Where is Fulgrim exactly at this point and what could we expect from him?

[Scribe]

Where is Fulgrim exactly at this point and what could we expect from him?

His forces went feral I believe after Saturnine.

 

Nothing further to expect, his arc concluded there unless they retcon it.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

 

How many Loyalist Titans, Knights and Custodes are left?

 

Might have to throw them all plus Valdor at Angron to banish the Daemon Prince

 

Both Magnus and Fulgrim will attack at some point so certain Loyalist groups will have to be deployed to counter each Daemon Prince

 

Could just throw every single Skitarii and Techpriest against Magnus and Fulgrim

Imperial Resources? However many are needed for the story.

 

Magus - Was just there for his soul. I believe his arc is concluded.

Fulgrim - Had to be compelled with his True Name to go there, he's already quit the siege.

Angron - Just there to be a force of nature. He has no further narrative key contributes.

I don't want 'as many Elves/Eldar as the Plot denands' BS

 

Mortis has the Traitor Titans decimating what's left of their Loyalist counterparts

 

There is no way Sanginius can defeat all of Legio Mortis alone then there are the Warmaster Titans plus the hordes of monstrosities that will be unleashed by the Dark Mechanicum

 

Besides, Dis Irae has Plot Armor unlike Sanginius

 

Fulgrim should attack the Bhab Bastion one last time just to decimate the Fists and emotionally damage Dorn

 

Angron should attack the Palace head on and reap a bloody toll on the Blood Angels, Skitarii, Custodes, Knights and Titans

 

Magnus then attacks the Palace and decimates the Loyalist Death Guard/Blackshields and the Sisters of Silence

 

Daemons should form a massive horde and attack Corswain and his Dark Angels

 

Ramp up the despair and brutality from Warhawk up to Eleven

Except that the traitors actually need to be broken once Horus dies, not in a position where their leaders death is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

That's why perturabo left, fulgrim left and mortarion got banished. That's why the sons of Horus command structure got decimated. That's why Khârn got killed. They're not systematically crushing the loyalists only to get scoured by Horus' death; they're hemorrhaging discipline and control while grinding the defenses down. That's why Horus needs to gamble to let down the shields; his forces were a complete mess and extremely vulnerable to the rescue fleet.

 

Like the books have made it clear that the iron warriors made a lot of defensive positions in space and on terra to ward off the rescue fleet. You can't have the traitors be extremely competent, have them continue to man them, launch coordinated strikes on all the problem areas, be on the verge of winning and then just run away when the figurehead dies. That's just bad writing.

 

Maybe it reads different on lexicanum tho

Khan and his Legion are out. Dorn and his Legion are isolated at Bhab plus the Fists have already lost most of their Marines. Blood Angels already took losses

 

Meanwhile the Bulk of the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children are still fresh

 

More and more Daemons are attacking Bhab, the Astronomicon, Lion Gate Spaceport and Palace plus they are getting stronger

 

Katshuhiro and Keeler together only have a few thousand Cannon Fodder. Millions of Traitor Guardsmen landed in just ONE Chapter of Mortis, two books back, alone!

 

Dis Irae is still operational, willing to fight and has Plot Armor unlike Sanginius

 

Vast majority of Legio Mortis still operational with very few Loyalist Titans still alive. Traitor Warmaster Titans 100% alive and healthy

 

Dark Mechanicum still has plenty of Traitor Skitarii plus Warmachines to throw at

 

Olly's stalker plus the Word Bearers and Night Lords are still active

 

Millions of Traitor Guardsmen landed during Warhawk

 

Millions more in Echoes

 

At this point Sang only has Katsuhiro, Keeler, few Blood Angels, Blackshields plus all the 'Conscripts' from the Blackstone Prison

 

Malcador can lend his secret Regiment which would only last a few minutes against the Endless Traitors

[cheywood]

This thread is making me appreciate how the Siege so far has managed to remain character oriented and largely transcended the ‘novelized battle report’ style many 40k novels have fallen into. I’m reading the books for discussions on the nature of empire amidst widescreen conflagration. Exactly what resources each side has left and how they all kill each other isn’t an important part of my personal Siege experience, and the books don’t demand I make it one. Not that those who care more about such things are in the wrong. There’s many ways to enjoy a pie after all.

[Noserenda]

I mean sure, if you wildly exaggerate loyalist losses and wildly downplay the traitor's it looks really bad. o.O 

[Scribe]

 

Khan and his Legion are out. Dorn and his Legion are isolated at Bhab plus the Fists have already lost most of their Marines. Blood Angels already took losses

 

Meanwhile the Bulk of the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children are still fresh

 

More and more Daemons are attacking Bhab, the Astronomicon, Lion Gate Spaceport and Palace plus they are getting stronger

 

Katshuhiro and Keeler together only have a few thousand Cannon Fodder. Millions of Traitor Guardsmen landed in just ONE Chapter of Mortis, two books back, alone!

 

Dis Irae is still operational, willing to fight and has Plot Armor unlike Sanginius

 

Vast majority of Legio Mortis still operational with very few Loyalist Titans still alive. Traitor Warmaster Titans 100% alive and healthy

 

Dark Mechanicum still has plenty of Traitor Skitarii plus Warmachines to throw at

 

Olly's stalker plus the Word Bearers and Night Lords are still active

 

Millions of Traitor Guardsmen landed during Warhawk

 

Millions more in Echoes

 

At this point Sang only has Katsuhiro, Keeler, few Blood Angels, Blackshields plus all the 'Conscripts' from the Blackstone Prison

 

Malcador can lend his secret Regiment which would only last a few minutes against the Endless Traitors

 

 

Fists have already lost 'most of their marines' yet they can go after the Iron Warriors following the Siege? Interesting.

Angels are currently holding the walls.

 

Sons of Horus - Leadership is in shambles, essentially decapitated, with just pockets of warbands forming.

Death Guard - Gutted, lost their Primarch.

World Eaters - Shattered, insane.

Emperors Children - Shattered, insane, gone rogue.

Thousand Sons - Not even there for the Siege, they are gone.

Daemons - Still cant even hold onto reality, not even a viable force yet.

 

Word Bearers and Night Lords are not even a meaningful force, already falling into 'warbands'.

 

Look, I'm Chaos forever, but your reading is suspect.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

 

Khan and his Legion are out. Dorn and his Legion are isolated at Bhab plus the Fists have already lost most of their Marines. Blood Angels already took losses

 

Meanwhile the Bulk of the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children are still fresh

 

More and more Daemons are attacking Bhab, the Astronomicon, Lion Gate Spaceport and Palace plus they are getting stronger

 

Katshuhiro and Keeler together only have a few thousand Cannon Fodder. Millions of Traitor Guardsmen landed in just ONE Chapter of Mortis, two books back, alone!

 

Dis Irae is still operational, willing to fight and has Plot Armor unlike Sanginius

 

Vast majority of Legio Mortis still operational with very few Loyalist Titans still alive. Traitor Warmaster Titans 100% alive and healthy

 

Dark Mechanicum still has plenty of Traitor Skitarii plus Warmachines to throw at

 

Olly's stalker plus the Word Bearers and Night Lords are still active

 

Millions of Traitor Guardsmen landed during Warhawk

 

Millions more in Echoes

 

At this point Sang only has Katsuhiro, Keeler, few Blood Angels, Blackshields plus all the 'Conscripts' from the Blackstone Prison

 

Malcador can lend his secret Regiment which would only last a few minutes against the Endless Traitors

 

 

Fists have already lost 'most of their marines' yet they can go after the Iron Warriors following the Siege? Interesting.

Angels are currently holding the walls.

 

Sons of Horus - Leadership is in shambles, essentially decapitated, with just pockets of warbands forming.

Death Guard - Gutted, lost their Primarch.

World Eaters - Shattered, insane.

Emperors Children - Shattered, insane, gone rogue.

Thousand Sons - Not even there for the Siege, they are gone.

Daemons - Still cant even hold onto reality, not even a viable force yet.

 

Word Bearers and Night Lords are not even a meaningful force, already falling into 'warbands'.

 

Look, I'm Chaos forever, but your reading is suspect.

 

Well explained

 

For sure, Horus still holds the upper hand, and if he had the time, he would eventually see the Emperor's defenses crushed along with the Emperor's dreams. But he doesn't have the time. That's the most crucial resource that Horus doesn't have, and as that goes so do his options.

 

.... On the bright side though, I'm sure the chaos gods are still vastly entertained by it all

[grailkeeper]

Hopefully this one features no marines and instead only features random people appearing through different parts of history in a way that seems like an allegory, but isn't. The more disjointed the better- if I can understand what's happening I'll be very disappointed. Edited February 27, 2022 by grailkeeper