Need advice on what to build, DA Greenwing 1st born only

[GreenlikeGrass]

Hello all, the 30/40k universe has been my passion since 3rd edition but due to social anxiety I've never played a game. My goal is to change that this year so I'm trying to get my once 30k DA army finished. As a modeler first I want to keep the 30k aesthetic going while being wysiwyg and of course avoid Primaris like the plague. I have tons of bitz and enough parts to field around 60 power armored models but I don't know what's the most competitive units and loadouts given my restrictions. you name it I can build it, whatever load out i have the parts. My other problem is Raven wing bikers i have 9 bolter bikes and 4 attack bikes. I don't know whether it would be better to make 4 squads of 3 bikes and an attack bike or some other combination. originally thinking was with 4 I could allow me to specialize with flamers and heavy bolters for 2 and meltas and multi meltas for the other 2. Other than that I noticed that pistols can fire in melee but I don't understand if that's in the shooting phase while engaged or the shots replace the models melee attacks? Any way i know thats lot to read so thank you to anyone who takes the time to help.

 

List of other models I own to help show what I maybe lacking or if anyone has comment on any combinations

10 scouts, Landspeeder storm, 10 RW knights(some characters), 2 landspeeders h. bolter & assualt can, dark shroud landspeeder, 4 rhino/razorbacks, 3 drop pods, 2 predators autocannon & sponson las, Dreadnaught with multiple loadout, 2 Contemptors (2 twin h. bolter arms, 2 assault can, 2 multimelta, & CCW's), wirlwind scorpius, vindicator laser destroyer, sicaran battle tank with lascannon sponson, landraider proteus, standard landraider, spartan assualt tank, stormeagle gunship, & Dark Talon. (also have a ton of Deathwing but i understand them well enough.)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Best thing is to build some stuff, get some games to get hang of the meta around your area and then start to tweak.

[GreenlikeGrass]

sound advice of course but I don't want to build a bunch of models to then have to tear them apart later when I find out they are garbage. looking more for loadouts on tactical squads or whether I should build devastators and what weapons would be good. I want to make units that resemble Horus heresy versions like destroyers and the siege shield squads but don't want to waste my models on subpar units and weapon combinations. Games Workshop is going insane with their prices so the less I waste on the purchases I've already made the happier I'll be. As far as meta while I haven't played people I have seen many armies on my visits to the local store and every army is represented with a space marine majority.

[phandaal]

Devastators are still pretty strong. Here is an example of a non-standard list using a lot of OG Marine elements:

 

https://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Lance-Glover-3rd-Place-The-Hobart-GT2021-%E2%80%93-Dark-Angels.pdf

 

You would not have the Eliminators, Hellblasters, or Bladeguard, but you get the idea.

 

Your Deathwing are going to be very strong as well. Get a few big blocks and they will tear things up nicely:

 

https://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Jack-Tite-3rd-Place-XPZ-Last-Chancer-GT-2022-%E2%80%93-Dark-Angels.pdf

[GreenlikeGrass]

thank you, excellent examples from those lists. I wish more players were posting first born lists so I wouldn't be so in the dark right now. still am uncertain if its best to run Tactical squads stock for objective grabbing or if i should throw plasma on them. i am also thinking of using sternguard vets with plasmaguns instead of hellblasters and making a power armored command squad with combi plasma and storm shields so i can use the 30k siege shields I've collected. 

[phandaal]

For objectives you could run your bikers in 3 man squads in a Ravenwing Outrider detachments. Fast Objective Secured units. Tactical might be best hanging out on the backline with a heavy weapon or two.

[bigtrouble]

This can be done. You have good options. I’m not the most experienced player, but here’s what I see:

 

You only really need one max size tactical squad to hold a backfield objective, you can combat squad it if need be. The grav cannon is the best heavy weapon of you have extra points to spend.

 

Make a Talonmaster from one of your speeders, he’s easily the most powerful single model in the codex. Maybe make two.

 

Run your bikes in 3 squads of 3 for obsec, and run 2 units of 2 attack bikes with multimeltas or one unit of 3 and add the spare to add wounds to one of your other bike squads.

 

You might be able to do a captain on bike and upgrade to chapter master for full rerolls to go with your attack bikes, or you could use Azrael and just get rerolls on first turn.

 

Devastators with Grav or Melta in drop pods are legit.

 

Relic Contemptors are great, but cost CP, and your weapon options are not the most competitive. The melta/CCW are probably the best, just go punch stuff with them.

 

The whirlwind has interesting play as a first turn offensive weapon with 3D3 blast and AP -3 in the devastator doctrine. I wouldn’t bring any other vehicles from that list though, with possible exception of the Dark Talon.

 

Deathwing are still the best units in the codex, so that would be my core if I were you.

Edited February 22, 2022 by bigtrouble

[GreenlikeGrass]

my thanks to both of you that really has me set, if i dont take forever ill try to start a post to show off my army when its done.

[Helias_Tancred]

I like using grav weapons with my tactical squad. I use them as anti power armor infantry and to hold an objective. I typically run a 5 man combat squad with a grav-cannon+amp, along with a combi-grav on the sergeant. In a 10 man squad I would also include a grav-gun.

 

Devastators with lascannons or plasma cannons, especially using our WOTDA strat on the latter, can deal damage.

 

Another firstborn unit I love are the company veterans. I own two 5 man squads of them. The first one are combi-plasma+storm shields, and the second one are combi-melta+storm shields. I put them in a Razorback and they're very handy. Even on foot they usually do well.

 

I use a lot of primaris in my battle company units but those are some firstborn units that I still use often. Good luck!

[GreenlikeGrass]

excellent, I've been obsessed with making those very two company vet squads. i could throw them in razorbacks and have small tactical squads in two drop pods for grabbing objectives and deep strike denial. figure I will use the last pod for multimelta devastators and use one of the rhinos as a Damocles Command Rhino to get CP and broadcast my Capt and Lt's auras to my backline fire support which im thinking full Tac Squad with a Missile Launcher, a Plasma Cannon Devastator squad and a Ven. Dread with Twin Lascannon and Missile Pod.

[XeonDragon]

From that list below, if you want to go first born only (mad props for that btw!) you could replace hell blasters with either devastator plasma squads, sternguard veterans with combi-plasma or company veterans with combi-plasma and storm shields for a similar effect and points cost.

 

Blade guard veterans (BGVs) could be replaced with assault terminators of either type, but hammer and shield will most closely replicate the BGVs durability. 

 

Eliminators are probably the hardest thing to replicate via First Born marines. Scouts with sniper rifles are about the closest, but their performance and point efficiency really lags behind eliminators, as they don't have access to move-shoot-move via a stratagem.   

Devastators are still pretty strong. Here is an example of a non-standard list using a lot of OG Marine elements:

 

https://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Lance-Glover-3rd-Place-The-Hobart-GT2021-%E2%80%93-Dark-Angels.pdf

 

You would not have the Eliminators, Hellblasters, or Bladeguard, but you get the idea.

 

Your Deathwing are going to be very strong as well. Get a few big blocks and they will tear things up nicely:

 

https://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Jack-Tite-3rd-Place-XPZ-Last-Chancer-GT-2022-%E2%80%93-Dark-Angels.pdf

[XeonDragon]

We think alike! I love a tactical squad with grav cannon and a combi-plasma on the sergeant. Also agree that company veterans with combi-weapons and storm shields are very effective and surprisingly durable. Great unit. 

I like using grav weapons with my tactical squad. I use them as anti power armor infantry and to hold an objective. I typically run a 5 man combat squad with a grav-cannon+amp, along with a combi-grav on the sergeant. In a 10 man squad I would also include a grav-gun.

 

Devastators with lascannons or plasma cannons, especially using our WOTDA strat on the latter, can deal damage.

 

Another firstborn unit I love are the company veterans. I own two 5 man squads of them. The first one are combi-plasma+storm shields, and the second one are combi-melta+storm shields. I put them in a Razorback and they're very handy. Even on foot they usually do well.

 

I use a lot of primaris in my battle company units but those are some firstborn units that I still use often. Good luck!

[Helias_Tancred]

I forgot to mention this ... I play a lot of marine armies and a firstborn unit I haven't used yet but I keep considering is a ten man devastator squad in a drop pod armed with 4 grav-cannons+amps and a combi-grav on the sergeant?

 

I keep wanting to try it against one of my marine opponents.

[phandaal]

I forgot to mention this ... I play a lot of marine armies and a firstborn unit I haven't used yet but I keep considering is a ten man devastator squad in a drop pod armed with 4 grav-cannons+amps and a combi-grav on the sergeant?

 

I keep wanting to try it against one of my marine opponents.

Have not used Devastators in a long time... What are amps?

[Helias_Tancred]

 

I forgot to mention this ... I play a lot of marine armies and a firstborn unit I haven't used yet but I keep considering is a ten man devastator squad in a drop pod armed with 4 grav-cannons+amps and a combi-grav on the sergeant?

 

I keep wanting to try it against one of my marine opponents.

Have not used Devastators in a long time... What are amps?

 

 

It's just technical syntax with the term grav cannons.... in the writing its a grav-cannon and a grav amp.

[ValourousHeart]

List of other models I own to help show what I maybe lacking or if anyone has comment on any combinations

2 landspeeders h. bolter & assualt can, dark shroud landspeeder, & Dark Talon.

 

You should purchase 4 more Land Speeders and 1 Ravenwing Accessory Pack.

That should run you $159 + tax in the US.

 

Build 1 speeder as a Talonmaster.

Build 1 speeder as a HB/AC or MM/AC.

Build 2 speeders as HB TML.

 

Your list will be....

 

Outrider Detachment

Talonmaster (warlord)

Tornado Squadron - 3 HB & 3 AC or 2 HB, 1 MM, and 3 AC

Typhoon Squadron - 2 HB & 2 TML

Dark Shroud

Dark Talon

 

That should be around 1000 points.

 

As long as you are sticking to your LGS you should do well against anyone dumb enough to say "screw picking a mission, let's just kill each other."  Against smarter opponents (IE the ones that pick a mission), just fly over to an open objective and shoot any enemy models that are on a different objective, the score will be close.

 

Although when that player is playing Custodes, they will likely accuse you of bringing a tournament net listing to a casual game.

 

Don't take this list to a tournament.  Those lists are built around killing 1-2 knights per turn.  My list (Talonmaster, 6 Tornados, 3 Typhoons) can only drop 1 Knight a turn.

 

If you choose to play this list, you must make airplane and machine gun noises.  Giving me credit is optional.

[XeonDragon]

Grav amps and cannons are a good all-round weapon. However, as the gravitic amplification stratagem has gone and -1 damage is becoming more common, they are not as good as they once were. They are good, just not stellar. Personally, I see value in taking 1 or 2 multi-meltas in the squad, and a combi-plasma instead of combi-grav gun. 

 

This is because (1) the combi-plasma and multi-melta both have 24" range, which is a better match with the 30" range of the grav cannon and amp and (2) you can get 2 shots more reliably than a combi-grav (and less risk of a counter-charge following if the unit you shoot survives).

 

Whilst not critical for turn 1 shenanigans, if they wipe out what they shoot it means they have better range should they get to shoot again. I really like 1 MM, 3 x grav cannons and combi-plasma on the sergeant. Keep the points down, I can get 4 MM shots via the cherub first turn of shooting and then add 12 grav cannon shots and 2 combi-plasma shoots. Pretty versatile.

 

My math hammer has that bundle (MM and combi-plasma hitting on 3s, grav cannons hitting on 4s) doing 13-14 points of unsaved damaged against VEQ targets and 7-8 against KEQ targets if dropping in within melta range for the MM and rapid fire range for the combi-plasma, with no overcharging. 

 

I forgot to mention this ... I play a lot of marine armies and a firstborn unit I haven't used yet but I keep considering is a ten man devastator squad in a drop pod armed with 4 grav-cannons+amps and a combi-grav on the sergeant?

 

I keep wanting to try it against one of my marine opponents.

Edited February 23, 2022 by XeonDragon

[bigtrouble]

The value of grav isn’t necessarily the extra damage, though. In my opinion it’s that it’s Heavy 4, so it’s so much more consistent output than the other mid-ranged options.

[aura_enchanted]

The stalker is a tempting and useful unit for a greenwing dark angels unit.

 

Basically its the firepower of a suppressor squad in 1 model but where the suppressors are mobile and fast moving, the stalker is the camping guy in the corner and has extreme range and if they have a flyer then they are just that much more valuable. It's bs 3+ as long as it's stationary and as it stands it is also cheaper than the suppressors. In fact with the stalker against some suppressors, turn 1 if the stalker gets to shoot hes bs2+ and can probably slay all of them and make your value back by that single moment

Edited February 23, 2022 by aura_enchanted

[march10k]

I like to camp a full dev squad with lascannons in the upper floor of  a ruin with Azrael.  It's 48" range, rerolling misses, in heavy cover with a 4++ from the helm, even deepstrikers can't charge on arrival.  Having a small squad of knights in reserve kinda deters that anyway, wouldn't wanna drop in only to have the knights appear on the ground floor, and good luck shooting at them with their six ablative wounds!  They can do a lot of good work from there, often while camping a home objective.  There are things you can add, like a lieutenant or a darkshroud, but the basic package is Azzy and 4 lascannons on an upper floor.  In my triwing list, that's the only firstborn greenwing element.  I have other greenwing and other firstborn, but devastators are the only good greenwing firstborn.