Is there are new codex astartes on its way?

[Kenzaburo]

The one good thing about rolling heresy era tanks into the current marine dex would be the influx of new tracked vehicles after all the hover madness. I might have made my peace with the new tanks from a style point of view, but still prefer the agressive brutal look of the original tracked vehicles. Especially the massive Spartan.

 

But lore-wise it would be laughable. But we have seen it happen with MK 6 and the retcon - if it boosts sales, it will influence the overall lore and rules.

[Guest Triszin]

And that new karkatoa tank (like a bigger sicarian). I want 40k rules!

[WrathOfTheLion]

Don't think there was really all that much retcon for MK VI, they just showed it as more prolific in the later Heresy. Even going back a couple of black books now, they tended to even have art showing MK VI for Night Lords, Dark Angels, White Scars, etc.

 

Making those tanks more prolific in 40k would be a bigger lore jump in my opinion. I'd wonder if maybe there'll be an updated compendium instead of folding it all into the codex proper? My thoughts there lean to how will Chaos Space Marines be handled there as well, will they fold it into their codex?

[Dark Shepherd]

They can have them in the codex without being super prevalent in the lore. No more immersion busting on the tabletop than a bajillion Custodes jetbikes :)

 

Its GW, and profits have dipped, so I reckon they will be in the codex. Plus they can market them as oh its not all Primaris Lieutenants we still love classic marines

 

They might de facto replace some old kits/units theyre not bothered making again due to low sales or just a push to mostly modern sculpts in general

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dark Shepherd

[War of the Eagle]

The one good thing about rolling heresy era tanks into the current marine dex would be the influx of new tracked vehicles after all the hover madness. I might have made my peace with the new tanks from a style point of view, but still prefer the agressive brutal look of the original tracked vehicles. Especially the massive Spartan.

 

But lore-wise it would be laughable. But we have seen it happen with MK 6 and the retcon - if it boosts sales, it will influence the overall lore and rules.

I love more tracked vechicals added from the HH. I rejected hover madness and converted all my impulsors and repulsors to land tanks.

[TheNewman]

GW: "We're not going to be releasing any new plastic kits for 40k Firstborn Marines."

 

Also GW: "Hey check out these plastic Marine kits for HH!"

[Kenzaburo]

 

The one good thing about rolling heresy era tanks into the current marine dex would be the influx of new tracked vehicles after all the hover madness. I might have made my peace with the new tanks from a style point of view, but still prefer the agressive brutal look of the original tracked vehicles. Especially the massive Spartan.

 

But lore-wise it would be laughable. But we have seen it happen with MK 6 and the retcon - if it boosts sales, it will influence the overall lore and rules.

I love more tracked vechicals added from the HH. I rejected hover madness and converted all my impulsors and repulsors to land tanks.

 

I salute your energy and dedication, brother. Once I surrendered to Primaris it was only a matter of time until I got my first hover tank. But I love 30k for being almost all tracked. 

[WARMASTER_]

They can have them in the codex without being super prevalent in the lore. No more immersion busting on the tabletop than a bajillion Custodes jetbikes :)

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this Cataphractii, Tartaros Terminators and Contemptors have been in the codex for ages and they’re just a rare as Spartans and Leviathan dreads in 40K

 

As long as you either have a good lore reason [Ala Minotaurs or Consecrators like chapter / they've “opened the armoury”] and use “some” restraint I don’t see the issue

[spessmarine]

The one good thing about rolling heresy era tanks into the current marine dex would be the influx of new tracked vehicles after all the hover madness. I might have made my peace with the new tanks from a style point of view, but still prefer the agressive brutal look of the original tracked vehicles. Especially the massive Spartan.

 

But lore-wise it would be laughable. But we have seen it happen with MK 6 and the retcon - if it boosts sales, it will influence the overall lore and rules.

I don't like the hover tanks either. Lorewise, I don't think it is that big of a deal, some of the HH tanks are far from exotic.

 

[Claws and Effect]

GW: "We're not going to be releasing any new plastic kits for 40k Firstborn Marines."

 

Also GW: "Hey check out these plastic Marine kits for HH!"

They technically didn't lie.

 

The fact that Heresy Marine models can be used in 40k doesn't equal a new Heresy kit also being a 40k specific release.

[phandaal]

 

GW: "We're not going to be releasing any new plastic kits for 40k Firstborn Marines."

 

Also GW: "Hey check out these plastic Marine kits for HH!"

They technically didn't lie.

 

The fact that Heresy Marine models can be used in 40k doesn't equal a new Heresy kit also being a 40k specific release.

 

 

Maybe GW will pull a Blizzard Entertainment and say "if you want Firstborn Space Marines, 30k is there waiting for you."

[bigtrouble]

 

 

GW: "We're not going to be releasing any new plastic kits for 40k Firstborn Marines."

Also GW: "Hey check out these plastic Marine kits for HH!"

 

They technically didn't lie.

The fact that Heresy Marine models can be used in 40k doesn't equal a new Heresy kit also being a 40k specific release.

 

Maybe GW will pull a Blizzard Entertainment and say "if you want Firstborn Space Marines, 30k is there waiting for you."

Did the recent commemerative Terminator Chaplain sound the bell on 1st born kits?

[Angelus Nex]

 

will be interesting to see how they approach the heresy stuff for sure, on the one hand, its going to be available in plastic and will be a mainline product so could easily be added, on the other hand, keeping the heresy stuff in an imperial armour supplement might still be the best approach because they're often more limited in availability for marines anwyay

We don't have a huge amount of HH plastic to go on but the Contemptor made it into the main Codex, despite previously being a FW resin model. I can't believe they would not want the potential to double-dip on sales by allowing them in 40K as well.

Unless those contemporaine are painter in legion ánd successor colours. Also dark angels are black in HH and do not have a deathwing yet. So people might buy 2. Also, they can shell the new plastics to people who don't play heresy.

[TheNewman]

 

 

 

GW: "We're not going to be releasing any new plastic kits for 40k Firstborn Marines."

 

Also GW: "Hey check out these plastic Marine kits for HH!"

They technically didn't lie.

 

The fact that Heresy Marine models can be used in 40k doesn't equal a new Heresy kit also being a 40k specific release.

Maybe GW will pull a Blizzard Entertainment and say "if you want Firstborn Space Marines, 30k is there waiting for you."

The last thread I saw on that other forum regarding Marine Codex 9.2 the consensus seemed to be "get it over with, consolidate Firstborn and Primaris already" and it just suddenly dawned on me how much anger GW would draw for releasing plastic Leviathans and Sicaran tanks and properly scaled Firstborn and then turning around and making them unusable in the next 40k loyalist Marine codex.

 

That'd be an unqualified [censored]-storm.

Edited April 7, 2022 by TheNewman

[phandaal]

 

The last thread I saw on that other forum regarding Marine Codex 9.2 the consensus seemed to be "get it over with, consolidate Firstborn and Primaris already" and it just suddenly dawned on me how much anger GW would draw for releasing plastic Leviathans and Sicaran tanks and properly scaled Firstborn and then turning around and making them unusable in the next 40k loyalist Marine codex.

 

That'd be an unqualified [censored]-storm.

 

 

People have this idea that original Marines are somehow holding the faction back, either because they think Primaris-only would somehow not be subject to the problems of 9th edition or they cannot separate the models' scaling from what they represent in-game. As in, "Hobbit Marines suck" or other comments like that.

 

Just goes to show that people often have very bad takes.

 

The best way to consolidate Space Marines is to drop the Primaris keyword entirely and normalize stat lines for basic marines, then slowly prune back any extraneous units. We still have Intercessors, Eradicators, all that, and the argument goes to bed.

[TheNewman]

 

 

The last thread I saw on that other forum regarding Marine Codex 9.2 the consensus seemed to be "get it over with, consolidate Firstborn and Primaris already" and it just suddenly dawned on me how much anger GW would draw for releasing plastic Leviathans and Sicaran tanks and properly scaled Firstborn and then turning around and making them unusable in the next 40k loyalist Marine codex.

 

That'd be an unqualified [censored]-storm.

 

People have this idea that original Marines are somehow holding the faction back, either because they think Primaris-only would somehow not be subject to the problems of 9th edition or they cannot separate the models' scaling from what they represent in-game. As in, "Hobbit Marines suck" or other comments like that.

 

Just goes to show that people often have very bad takes.

 

The best way to consolidate Space Marines is to drop the Primaris keyword entirely and normalize stat lines for basic marines, then slowly prune back any extraneous units. We still have Intercessors, Eradicators, all that, and the argument goes to bed.

It was less "Firstborn are holding us back" and more "there's way too many redundant units", with the chatter being how to best combine the wargear of Intercessors and Tac Marines or Hellblasters and Devastators. Or whether having Heavy Intercessors and Eradicators as separate units makes sense.

 

Surprisingly civil thread for that forum.

 

Some of that might have been driven by Chaos Legionairs having W2 and A2 right out of the gate; it would be weird for Firstborn to still be A1 after that, but if they're A2 then Intercessors make no sense.

[phandaal]

 

It was less "Firstborn are holding us back" and more "there's way too many redundant units", with the chatter being how to best combine the wargear of Intercessors and Tac Marines or Hellblasters and Devastators. Or whether having Heavy Intercessors and Eradicators as separate units makes sense.

 

Surprisingly civil thread for that forum.

 

Some of that might have been driven by Chaos Legionairs having W2 and A2 right out of the gate; it would be weird for Firstborn to still be A1 after that, but if they're A2 then Intercessors make no sense.

 

 

They definitely do need to consolidate. Heavy Intercessors and Eradicators came to mind for me as well, along with the three separate Phobos infantry units.

 

Mono-loadout units do not help here. GW is tooled up to produce things that cannot be integrated with pre-Primaris Space Marine kits, or even with other Primaris kits.

 

We can say that the idea to do a total replacement of one of their most diverse armies was a mistake, but at this point that is like saying the sky is blue.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think redundancy is fine, yeah the book is huge but people buy the stuff. The issue is that the internal balance makes to many of those units feel worthless.

 

I think at some point we do have to at least consider taking GW at their word that primaris are a reinforcement. HH being the third major system has been a stated desire of theirs for years since before primaris even existed.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Let's compromise: You guys who run mixed Firstborn and Primaris armies can have Heavy Intercessors and Eradicators combined into a single datasheet along with the Phobos trifecta.

 

Those of us running Ultima Founding or fully Rubicon'd chapters can continue to enjoy them as separate units and actually get a codex with all of the Firstborn bloat removed.

 

Everyone wins!

[phandaal]

Let's compromise: You guys who run mixed Firstborn and Primaris armies can have Heavy Intercessors and Eradicators combined into a single datasheet along with the Phobos trifecta.

 

Those of us running Ultima Founding or fully Rubicon'd chapters can continue to enjoy them as separate units and actually get a codex with all of the Firstborn bloat removed.

 

Everyone wins!

 

Pass. This just might be the least consequential thing to separate into tribal groups over, maybe ever. Even thinking about getting in a fight over this is sort of embarrassing.

 

I own a 100% Primaris Greenwing army, and have the opinion that having some units on separate datasheets is extraneous.

 

Own multiples of every single Gravis unit, and think it would be nice if they could be taken in mixed units.

 

Own multiples of the Phobos units, and think it would be cleaner to have them as a single datasheet with different loadouts.

[spessmarine]

Primaris not being able to hop in a rhino or whatever was and remains dumb.

Bloat is indeed an issue, do we really need all these bolter variants? Assault and regular Intercessors, could've been one kit and sheet from the start for example. Etc, etc.

[TheNewman]

...

Own multiples of every single Gravis unit, and think it would be nice if they could be taken in mixed units.

 

Own multiples of the Phobos units, and think it would be cleaner to have them as a single datasheet with different loadouts.

You're basically describing Deathwatch there, although they have some kind of funky restrictions on how many of each thing can be in the squads. It's a lot more valuable for Gravis and Omnis than it is for Intercessors though, no matter how stylish a five-man Outrider squad with obsec seems at first glance.

[spessmarine]

 

...

Own multiples of every single Gravis unit, and think it would be nice if they could be taken in mixed units.

 

Own multiples of the Phobos units, and think it would be cleaner to have them as a single datasheet with different loadouts.

You're basically describing Deathwatch there, although they have some kind of funky restrictions on how many of each thing can be in the squads. It's a lot more valuable for Gravis and Omnis than it is for Intercessors though, no matter how stylish a five-man Outrider squad with obsec seems at first glance.

 

Mixed loadouts is more classical marine. Bit odd with the Primaris doing the Aspect Shrine deal (Eradicators are Primaris Fire Dragons)

[Blindhamster]

personally I like the units being distinct for primaris - it means they can be balanced individually and rules can be added or removed from them without affecting eachother, same reason I like different bolter variants personally.

I wouldn't want them to smoosh it all together, I also like the design of primaris units having more specific goals in mind per unit - more specialist and less generalist.

I do think theres a few units that need a do-over because they currently dont really have proper roles or if they do, they dont do them well (looking at you reivers).

I do think things like captains could easily be a single data sheet, but thats clearly not happening when even HH is going the route of different sheet per armour type.

I switched to pure primaris when they came out after the best part of two decades playing marines, I preferred the models and I personally liked the design approach from a rules perspective too. I still think the change to make all marines be 2 wounds was a mistake as to me that second wound represented the furnace, but I can understand the reason for doing it still (makes firstborn players happy), Its a shame they didn't come up with some other way to represent it though, like a stratagem to give a primaris unit essentially a we'll be back roll or something might have been cool. I guess the switch to make transhuman a primaris only thing was their way to represent it.

Anyway, much like firstborn players don't want to see their units removed (and i really don't think they will be), i'd prefer not to see primaris units removed. I would absolutely like to see some of them be rewritten though.

[TheNewman]

 

GW: "We're not going to be releasing any new plastic kits for 40k Firstborn Marines."

 

Also GW: "Hey check out these plastic Marine kits for HH!"

They technically didn't lie.

 

The fact that Heresy Marine models can be used in 40k doesn't equal a new Heresy kit also being a 40k specific release.

Technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

 

I suppose if I have a problem with it it's because it gives GW a clear map of how to discontinue the 40k loyalist Firstborn kits without actually removing them from the game, and I really don't like the Mk6 helmets.

 

I've been holding off on buying any more Firstborn until I see the next codex but now I'm feeling pressure to pick up the handful of Firstborn models that I don't have (filling out my Hammer and Shield VVs and getting the second Devastator box worth of heavy weapons) because the clock is ticking a lot louder on the availability of those kits now.