Valkia the Bloody Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I have a question concerning the use of Citadel primer sprays. So far, I have only ever primed my models using the white and black spray. I have bought a Chaos Heldrake model and OMG, all that trim. It is virtually endless. So someone suggested me just using the Citadel Retributor Armor Gold spray as a primer so this saves me from painting all that trim. Now the question is- do you have to spray the black primer first and then do a second coat with gold? Or do you use the gold directly? My army is Night Lords and I am going for a dark and dirty gold, so I thought maybe using black underneath the gold might bring a darker effect. But since I have never used the Retributor gold spray before, I cannot really tell. Has anyone experience with using these Citadel sprays? Thanks for your help! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) Metallics aren't really affected by the undercoat, at least not if you're going for proper coverage (and if you're not, it'd look terrible) and certainly not if you're using the primer version. There's been a never ending debate around whether or not GW's coloured (IE non-black/white) rattle cans function as primers. Personally I wouldn't take the chance, I'd just give it a few, quick blasts of Chaos Black and then apply the Retributor Armour can to be on the safe side. Edited March 8, 2022 by Lord Marshal Valkia the Bloody 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5802869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkia the Bloody Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 Thank you, that is a good suggestion! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5802883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I've used pretty much all of the rattle cans (retribution included) straight over plastic without any issue. No instances of paint peeling off, the only bad coverage I get is from white or wraith bone (grey seer is fine), and I don't know of anyone else who goes with multiple colours of spray unless they're doing zenethal highlighting. XeonDragon, Tyriks, Valkia the Bloody and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5802901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I myself sprayed a helldrake retributor gold as that seemed the best way to do the trim, without first doing a prior basecoat in a different colour. The results can be seen here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346143-the-judgment-on-kadeth-dr-ruminahuis-emperors-children/?p=5692565 and you can advance to the bottom of that page for the finished results. If you are interested in replicating the look, it is retributor base, golden griffon drybrush, then reikland flesh shade wash/ink. Haven't had any issues of paint wear yet, so it seems to be functioning as a regular primer coat - that said, I've only transported the model a couple of times. Valkia the Bloody 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5802958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I've used pretty much all of the rattle cans (retribution included) straight over plastic without any issue. No instances of paint peeling off, the only bad coverage I get is from white or wraith bone (grey seer is fine), and I don't know of anyone else who goes with multiple colours of spray unless they're doing zenethal highlighting. Same here, I've got a drawer full of various different GW spray colours and never had an issue using any of them as the first layer over plastic, including Retributor Armour and Leadbelcher. Valkia the Bloody and m_r_parker 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5803028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Only issue I had with any GW spray is Ret Gold, it always seems very poor quality. Even after 5 mins of shaking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5803066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I've found no benifits from priming white/black before using GWs coloured cans, and haven't had any wear issues. Valkia the Bloody 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5806327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Only issue I had with any GW spray is Ret Gold, it always seems very poor quality. Even after 5 mins of shaking. I have found it a bit hit-and-miss. The first can I got gave a very rough texture but subsequent ones have been fine. I have taken to testing new cans on a bit of sprue and only proceeeding to the models once I have have checked that it has dried OK. Dumah 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5806405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 If your worried give it a thin coat of black first, or just show no mercy like Johnny Lawrence and strike first with a paintbrush to show how badass you are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5806472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSilver Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I've used all of the coloured Citadel sprays without primer, and never had any issues. I use Leadbelcher and Retributor Armour spray regularly without undercoat and they've worked a treat. :) Valkia the Bloody 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5806488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I've used all of the coloured Citadel sprays without primer, and never had any issues. I use Leadbelcher and Retributor Armour spray regularly without undercoat and they've worked a treat. Dude that was your 888th post, Khorne owns your soul now. Bonsai Ghost, Evil Eye, StraightSilver and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5806524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibomots Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 More basic question about GW Primer. I forgot some things. Please help me remember? My initial guess for process: Unpack sprue from box. Utter small invocation of glorious success. Cue Megadeth on the MP3 player Wash sprue in room temp water, liquid soap, toothbrush scrub off mold-scale, etc.. (aluminum baking pan, 2cm of water and just scrub lightly off residue from manufacturing process) Air dry thoroughly. Next day, Prime exterior facing surfaces (*) with aerosol can of GW primer - super careful not to over do it. Dry overnight. Cue Metallica on the MP3 player Then begin to cut from sprue, trim, clean, etc... assemble parts, (*) I mentioned exterior facing so to not put primer in the gap between interior facing surfaces. Short version: Cut from sprue, clean, trim, etc.. glue up THEN prime? or Prime, then cut from sprue, clean, trim etc.. and glue up? What would you change in the process ? As far as GW Primer, is Grey Seer alright for a primer layer? It's that or Wraithbone, (Painting Leagues of Votann) Would you go with Army Painter Grey? Would you go with air-brushed (Citadel pot, mixed, air-brush medium, etc..) ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5869693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 1 hour ago, sibomots said: More basic question about GW Primer. I forgot some things. Please help me remember? My initial guess for process: Unpack sprue from box. Utter small invocation of glorious success. Cue Megadeth on the MP3 player Wash sprue in room temp water, liquid soap, toothbrush scrub off mold-scale, etc.. (aluminum baking pan, 2cm of water and just scrub lightly off residue from manufacturing process) Air dry thoroughly. Next day, Prime exterior facing surfaces (*) with aerosol can of GW primer - super careful not to over do it. Dry overnight. Cue Metallica on the MP3 player Then begin to cut from sprue, trim, clean, etc... assemble parts, (*) I mentioned exterior facing so to not put primer in the gap between interior facing surfaces. Short version: Cut from sprue, clean, trim, etc.. glue up THEN prime? or Prime, then cut from sprue, clean, trim etc.. and glue up? What would you change in the process ? As far as GW Primer, is Grey Seer alright for a primer layer? It's that or Wraithbone, (Painting Leagues of Votann) Would you go with Army Painter Grey? Would you go with air-brushed (Citadel pot, mixed, air-brush medium, etc..) ? You were fine until step 7, your supposed to repeat step 2 again lol. Firedrake Cordova 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5869705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkia the Bloody Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 I always assemble before priming... One reason is, it is easier to at least attempt to scrape of the mold lines. As for music.... Debauchery for Chaos, Blind Guardian for something epic, and of course "The Hu" to get you ready for battle. Marshal Mittens and Firedrake Cordova 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5869756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake Cordova Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 That looks like you're on the right lines, although personally I wouldn't paint or prime the parts on the sprue - as @Valkia the Bloody says, it's easier to remove the mould-lines when the parts have been removed (personally, I would remove everything, clean up the parts and glue them into sub-assemblies, and then paint them). For the correct use of spray cans, Duncan's varnishes video is worth a watch, as is Artis Opus's video on priming (I think you've got everything right, though). On the choice of primer, spray cans are convenient, but they can be finicky, and work out expensive in the long-run. Personally, I use an airbrush to prime models (you get more control than with a spray can), using the grey (more of an off-white) and black primers from Vallejo's polyurethane primer range. Having said that, it's worth noting that they've since released the Mecha line of paints, which has a few primers in it - these are a bit tougher than the polyurethane ones, so all else being equal I'd do with those (there's also a nice ivory one in that line). Don't know if that helps at all? Karhedron and sibomots 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5869764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 12 hours ago, sibomots said: Would you go with Army Painter Grey? I am not a massive fan of army painter sprays. Their colours are good but they dry a bit more shiny that GW paints. The problem with that is GW paint applied over the top of AP sprays is incredibly easy to rub off, even when well dried. I noticed this when painting my Blood Angels who use AP Red as the base. I painted on the black details such as the chest eagles, let them dry and then moved onto details and highlighting. When I examined the finished models, I noticed that the black had worn off the raised edges of the eagles to reveal the red underneath. This means I have to be incredibly careful handling them while painting and then seal them thoroughly with varnish as soon as they are finished. It is not as disaster but I would think twice before starting with AP primers again. Dumah, sibomots and Valkia the Bloody 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5869790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkia the Bloody Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 This is some valuable information concerning the Army Painter sprays! So far I have never bought them (I always went with the GW ones) but this is good to know for the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5870379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaal Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 On 9/25/2022 at 5:13 PM, sibomots said: As far as GW Primer, is Grey Seer alright for a primer layer? It's that or Wraithbone, (Painting Leagues of Votann) Would you go with Army Painter Grey? I would go with Scale75 Grey Spray Primer or Tamiya Light Grey Surface Primer. Both are far superior to GW primers. The level of detail they preserve is incredible. sibomots 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5870390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mittens Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I like the wraithbone primer. However for the trim, there are gold and silver sharpies (the normal ones, not the paint ones), which go over primer extremely well and make painting the trim MUCH faster. The gold is a very close match to one of the GW golds too. https://www.michaels.com/sharpie-fine-gold-metallic-markers/10251015.html I used both the Gold and silver ones. As long as you let them dry, they stay on very well. sibomots 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5870393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibomots Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 I had a talk with the local GW guy, and he recommended don't bother washing the plastic. It has no mold scale chemical. The molds are aluminum, machine shoots in plastic in seconds and pops it out He said resin molds are hand poured and have mold scale that has to be cleaned. FWIW. I'll try different primers on scrap sprue I keep. Some rattle can, some air brushed. I'm usually battling orange peel here. So I gotta get the temp/humidity right. Thx for feedback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5870468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Lightstar Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 6 hours ago, sibomots said: I had a talk with the local GW guy, and he recommended don't bother washing the plastic. It has no mold scale chemical. The molds are aluminum, machine shoots in plastic in seconds and pops it out He said resin molds are hand poured and have mold scale that has to be cleaned. FWIW. I'll try different primers on scrap sprue I keep. Some rattle can, some air brushed. I'm usually battling orange peel here. So I gotta get the temp/humidity right. Thx for feedback. He's mostly correct, the majority of the molds for plastics are steel with aluminium for the short run items like special characters and event exclusives. neither of these need release agents. The molds used for resin will always have some release agent on them, it's just a question of quantity. There absolutely COULD be other contaminants on plastic sprues for example dust or oils from them being handled. I don't bother washing plastics as it's very rare to have any issues with primers adhering. On the occasions that it does happen I give the area a quick wipe over with some isopropyl on a a bit of kitchen towel and carry on as soon as it's dry. Rik Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373523-gw-primer-undercoat-question/#findComment-5870569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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