Why is this forum dead?

[CrystalSeer]

This used to be one of my favorite sub-forums on the site. I'd come here and read the different strategies people would use to counter and project the newest game moves.

 

Now it seems this isn't happening anymore. No one has posted since November of last year.

 

Is this due to lack of interest, these discussions happening in different places, or what I'd fear; have discussions on tactics become largely obsolete as the game design shifts to 'paper-rock-scissors'?

 

Looking for serious discussion on the state of the game and whether tabletop tactics are still viewed as a relevant component.

[Rogue]

I can only speak for myself, but if I want a tactical discussion about GSC, I post in the GSC forum. Partly because it's a quiet forum and it's nice to generate some content, and partly because that's where the GSC players go.

 

I'd come here for more general tactical chatter, but maybe factions have become so specialised now that there's not so much overlap for that sort of shared conversation.

[Grotsmasha]

I mean, for the past ~2yrs social gatherings have been banned, people HAVEN'T been able to get together for games? I'd expect we'll see the forum pick up again.

[Silas7]

Plus youtube is such a vast library.

[techsoldaten]

Facebook / Instagram / Reddit seem to have cannibalized the user base. They're better suited to some purposes.

 

I don't find the conversation as enlightening on those forums, so I stay here. It's better to have a small group with better insights than a large group with a lot of noise.

 

Small mercies. 

[Prot]

Although some areas of the world are 'acting as normal', a lot really aren't yet. I think it's that simple. This is a good place to toss ideas around when the full world is heavily engaged in the tournament scene, including traveling, etc.

[tychobi]

The friends don't let friends play with railguns meta around here has had a chilling effect on even the casual gamers. Folks don't like feeling left out of contention.

[MegaVolt87]

It's the spaced out release schedule and the new stuff is still new, not to mention the pandemic.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

If my local gaming venue is anything to go by, it's because less people are actually playing 40k.

Where I play people are more likely to play AT, AI (very popular all of a sudden) and even WHFB (6th edition) I've just branched out into Epic Heresy and haven't played a game of 40k in longer than I remember. And I get the impression I'm far from alone.

[CrystalSeer]

If my local gaming venue is anything to go by, it's because less people are actually playing 40k.

Where I play people are more likely to play AT, AI (very popular all of a sudden) and even WHFB (6th edition) I've just branched out into Epic Heresy and haven't played a game of 40k in longer than I remember. And I get the impression I'm far from alone.

 

Curious where this is? Pretty much everywhere I've been GW is still king.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Bristol, but I had a similar chat in a LGS in Worcester.

 

It's interesting that GW games are still the thing, just not the main two, everyone loves the lore and universe, just not 40k the game at the moment.

[Leonaides]

Possibly a time issue, 40k games seem to be taking longer but they keep bringing out new games that are quicker to play and easier to paint your 'army' for.

[chapter master 454]

I think part of it is that each faction has its own niche to discuss things and especially in lesser trod ones, I find tactical discussion is kept there. Also I do think as mentioned the fact there isn't much cross factional tactical use.

 

I mean, things like the Pocket Patrol I made a post about way back yonder is still around I see (and someone is yet to pick up that phone!) which is one of the few aspects of something that affects all factions. In fact, it is an axiom that most factions now have restricted HQ options in some manner per detachment so despite losing the ability to sub-faction soup, it is still powerful to get even just a patrol extra for 2CP as that just means you get more of what you want and the only tax is really +1 troops (and that isn't even tax these days. Troops get work done due to the nature of missions).

 

What else can be discussed? I suppose how do you spend your CP but that doesn't really bare for all factions and lists. Some lists may opt for a slow burn style, but most I see are all about front loading their CP on turn 1, ether as a massive offence or as a massive shield which makes the opponents turn 1 basically dead.

What about deployment? Hmm...again this has become more of a factional thing as well.

 

I do remember back in time of yore there were actually 4 guides towards tactical styles based on the elements that were surprisingly all well received by the community at the time (I say surprising because I made one of them and it was considered good...this was around the time of 5th edition to note however). These however all revolved around the fact we were talking marines and within them we discussed how they can actually do all four "forms" of battle. Water was a mechanised response style, pushing and pulling and always having the answer when needed. Fire was the aggressive onslaught, start turn 1 and be done by turn 3. Wind was about being mobile and back then wasn't as possible due to objectives not really being as concrete but was about evasion and never letting the enemy hit you. Earth (the one I authored) was about a static style, being able to hold lines of fire and make your opponent respect your space.

Those all relied on the fact they were talking about marines. We all talked at length of how Marines could do styles known by other armies, showing their effectiveness and most interestingly showing how from one article to another you saw some overlap of unit discussion but their use being different. Those articles would of lived here because well...the forum now isn't what is was. Back then, the forum was effectively a single gathering hall for space marines with each stall being something related (be it tactics, lists or sub-factional discussion).

Now however the forum is grand fortress. Each faction afforded a wing and while not all equal they have their own space. These spaces then discuss their own matters. I would argue this forum is a vestige of older times, evidence of when the forum was mono-power armour. Those days are gone, they were great but today the forum strides forth as now often a well known forum for 40k discourse when before you only ever heard of dakka or BoLS (are they still even going?).

 

I share the pain, it is fun to discuss tactical and cross reference notes but between the last 2 years and the size of the forum; there isn't enough being put down the line right now. Once Covid itself has been fully wrapped up (as in, we move to the Endemic phase of its existence, it isn't ever leaving) and get back on track, we may see more uptick but then again with prices going up that could also hinder newer blood coming in. The future is uncertain.

[The Neverborn]

I've noticed a increasing decline of "tactica's" on many forums over the last 20 years.

 

I put it down to 5 points

 

1)The abundance of youtube videos/battle reports

2)Easy access to tournament reports

3)Generally understood soltuions

4)A more experienced demographic

5)Less "wastage" available in codexs

[WarriorFish]

Most discussion happens in the army sections yes, along with the other factors already mentioned. I think the biggest one is that 9th is a complex beast with new codices coming out full to the brim with rules.

 

So it's not just a case of X, Y, and Z for an army's approach; you have that for every other army's potential response (and that's before you get to individual codex variations in Chapter and Stratagems...). This makes more generalist discussion difficult, so you're better off going to the horse's mouth so to speak - it's what I've been doing too.

 

Until the nature of the game changes I don't see this changing, there are more pressing reasons why the game should be a bit less complicated I feel but that is a not a discussion for here

[Emperor Ming]

The power creep this edition is the worst its ever been and the craziest, even then its a whole new level of crazy for some codexs

 

For me, that has had a massive affect on how much I play 40k and talk about 40k

 

Core rules are actually fine for once mostly, its codex bloat that's the problem now and units not being correctly points costed

[tychobi]

The power creep this edition is the worst its ever been and the craziest, even then its a whole new level of crazy for some codexs

 

For me, that has had a massive affect on how much I play 40k and talk about 40k

 

Core rules are actually fine for once mostly, its codex bloat that's the problem now and units not being correctly points costed

Could one say that tactics discussions are less meaningful when the correct answer is usually "play the new hotness"? 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You don't need tactics when the units are too good.

[Slave to Darkness]

Bristol, but I had a similar chat in a LGS in Worcester.

 

It's interesting that GW games are still the thing, just not the main two, everyone loves the lore and universe, just not 40k the game at the moment.

Same in Kings Lynn, the only people I see in there now are the managers clique, no one else bothers, but thats also down to the manager herself and not just GW. Doesnt feel like a warm friendly shop like GW pretend they are. 

[The Neverborn]

You don't need tactics when the units are too good.

Sounds like Hyperbole but it's probably not.

 

I was speaking to someone from another social circle, who was a former "competitive player". The type of person who claims they can or have built a near unbeatable army or has done in the past. 

 

Eyes rolling, I took the time to explain to this man that should he want to do so in 9th ed. He would need to invest an annual amount into the hobby of 100s, would need to play "extremely close to the edge of the rules". I place my model exactly x inches away from this terrain feature meaning it can't be shot/assaulted as your base is blah blah blah. I'm going to stop this interaction by moving X this way and so on and so on.

 

At what point in the above did you want to stab my eyes out with my own shin bones.

 

Tactics in 40k have been "gamerfied" so much that hearing about them is like hearing a list of untended interactions.

 

Warhammer was intended to be a RPG initially, but people like to win, they like that a lot. GW has jumped on the e-sport/tournament scene. Tactics now seem like "exploits"

 

While these have probably always existed the bizarre nature of them and the amount of "it is my intention" and the availability of math hammer is just draining.

 

This seeps into points 1,2,3 and 4 of my initial points.

 

No one is interested about talking them anymore.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Play AT.

[Slave to Darkness]

Play AT.

Play 1st ed. :D 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

Play AT.

Play 1st ed.

 

I'm quite enjoying playing old games too, the rules are pretty fixed, and it's much easier to keep up than 40k!

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

Play AT.

Play 1st ed.

 

I'm quite enjoying playing old games too, the rules are pretty fixed, and it's much easier to keep up than 40k!

 

Gethca arse up to Kings Lynn then when I eventually get a table built and rock out with some 1st edition. Was seriously good fun and Id recommend any 40k fan to have a go at least once.