Crimson Fists Help!

[strawberry fist]

Hello all, my brother and I have had a few games lately in preparation for a tournament coming up in a months time. Every time we've played he has always lost and we can't figure out whether its the list or secondary selection that he struggles with. He usually does quite well with getting onto objectives early (and holding them for a while) and dealing with my armour and infantry. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

2000 points

HQ

Captain

Mastercrafted auto-bolt riffle, Burning Blade.

Warlord - Imperiums Sword, Hand of Dorn. (-1CP to give a second trait)

 

Primaris Techmarine

Master of the Forge

 

Troops

Incursors x5

Heywire Mine

 

Intercessors X5 (in Impulsor)

Power fist, Bolt Riffle (rapid fire), grenade launcher

 

Intercessors X5 (in Impulsor)

Chainsword, Bolt Riffle (rapid fire), grenade launcher

 

Heavy Intercessors x5

heavy Bolt Riffle (rapid)

 

Elites

Leviathan (-1CP to bring)

Storm Cannons x2, volkite x2

 

Relic Contemptor (-1CP to bring)

Volkite X2, Cyclone Missile Launcher

 

Invictor tactical Warsuit

 

Primaris Apothecary

Chief Apothecary

Warlord - Selfless Healer (-1CP)

 

Heavy

Erradicator X4

Melta Riffle (assault), Multi-Melta

 

Helblasters x5

Plasma incinerator (rapid fire)

 

His general plan is to put the intercessors in the impulsors to grab mid-field objectives and support the forward deploying incursors and invictor.

Edited March 13, 2022 by strawberry fist

[MegaVolt87]

220 points on two impulsor's is a waste when he could take another scoring unit of x10 troops primaris. 

[CCE1981]

Note: you are here to get help to make this list competitive, so I am going to sound a bit harsh. This sounds like what you are looking for.

 

This list doesn’t bring enough models to the board. 37 models with a mixture of troops and tanks just isn’t enough durability or firepower.

 

Too much of this list is out of place and doesn’t support each other. It mostly looks like a bunch of cool models put together into a list more than a cohesive fighting force.

 

2x 5-man Intercessor units in Impulsors aren’t anywhere near enough to support an single 5-man Incursor unit and an Invictor.

 

When I see Incursors i generally look at them as a suicide unit to force my opponent to ‘stutter step’ or to force my opponent to deploy to counter them and pull them off the board (Warlord Trait ‘Lord of Deceit’) to grab objectives late game.

 

I don’t see much use for your Techmarine, +1 to hit without heavy damage Weapons on one unit just doesn’t do much and healing 3 damage a turn on a unit is almost meaningless, your Dreadnoughts are just going to be blasted off the table before he has a chance to make meaningful repairs.

 

Overall I would say This list almost completely lacks the ability to threaten your opponent. In general it lacks hard hitting weapons AND horde clearance weapons. This list desperately needs something that can go on the offensive and deal real damage to your opponent.

[strawberry fist]

CCE1981, what would you suggest to make it more competitive?

[CCE1981]

I tend to build Custom Successors looking at a parent Chapters super doctrine and try to build lists based off of that.

 

If your friend is set on Crimson Fists, then you definitely helps to start your units as small as possible, or Multiple Small Units (MSU).

 

Unfortunately the Imperial Fists Super-doctrine isn’t going to help much, it’s….ok, but it is a bit to restrictive to build around.

 

To help to much further I would have to sit down and really work with you. There is just too much to really go through and too many scenarios to give concrete answers. What works for me might not work for your friend.

[strawberry fist]

He is definitely set on Crimson Fists, he like the lore and the exploding 6’s for bolt weapons.

 

We have plenary of time to work through his list to alter/ remake it. As a general rule of thumb what would you include in a competitive list?

[CCE1981]

Exploding 6’s for Bolt Weapons? Or exploding 6’s in general? If in general I can introduce you to Wolves who’s melee can get double exploding 6’s.

 

So exploding 6 Bolt Weapons….. hmm. That means you are capped at Str 5, but could throw a ton of bolts downrange. I would start with a list that focuses on throwing as many bolts downrange first then we can work from there.

 

I can’t make the list for him. I can help tailor a list to improve it but it ultimately has to be his.

 

Here’s something you can try, drop the two impulsors and Hellblasters, swap them for a Drop Pod and 2x 5-man units of Company Vets with Storm Shields and Combi-Plasma. Drop the 2x Intercessor squads for a second 5-man Incursor Squad and a 5-man Infiltrator squad with Helix Gauntlet. Drop the Techmarine for a Phobos Character with Lord of Deceit.

 

Once you have done that try to stuff as many more bolt weapons in your list as you can.

[strawberry fist]

I personally like the idea of having some veterans in a pod deep striking in. I've passed on the amendments suggested but he was wondering about running another eradicator squad to outflank with, so he would have 1 heavy squad (4 man) with multi-melta on the board and a 4 man assault with multi-melta to outflank with later. (removing the hellblaster squad and chief apothecary and having 80 points to spare)

 

Your comment about low model count made me think about my Novamarines as there's. not many more models in that!