Imperial Knights codex speculation

[ValourousHeart]

 

The one thing I’m hoping for is Armigers getting obsec, or at the least there being more opportunities for giving knights/armigers obsec. It really is our Achillies heel.

 

That said, I suspect we won’t be seeing it, but the priestly role on the preceptor makes a lot of sense. I’d also expect a slight beefing up of toughness in the face of this edition’s increased lethality.

 

The balance dataslate already gave Armigers Obsec.  It also gave us counts as 10 models or 5 models for Armigers.

 

What I'm interested in is if we get any of the new weapons that Chaos Knights are getting.  I'm fine if we don't get the same flexibility in loadouts, I'm even fine if we don't get the Psyker Knight.  But having some other options for Armigers could be fun.  I don't really want anymore big Knights, I have a Valiant and the 2 mid-size ones are fully magnetized.  I have more room in my case for a couple more Armigers.

Edited April 4, 2022 by ValourousHeart

[chapter master 454]

Not going to lie, a little miffed about what the chaos knights are getting which feels like a more complete deal for their armigers. I hope at some point Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights get a range look-over and get some things levelled out, not going to happen but I can dream.

 

I certainly think we will see our knights retain their current form of Objective Interaction however I can easily see there being more ways to gain ObSec, especially on big knights. Some things I would like to see:

 

Dominus Class Knights having a bit more of that walking castle feeling. While in lore it may be considered crass to project your ion field to help protect other knights, I feel that is an element they could lean into for their armiger entourage. Maybe a 3CP strat but all armigers within 6" along with the Dominus get their Invulnerable boosted to 4+.

 

Rotate Ion Shield being something of a core mechanic to the army rather than a stratagem we have to use everytime. Would be nice. Since facing isn't  thing, maybe just for range increments. Rotate for Short, Medium or Long and if the opponent attacks from that range brackets you get a boost to your invulnerable save against it. That or we redress Ion Shields as being something else as a mechanic entirely, possibly akin to void shields?

 

It is a surefire no doubt happening but having profiles for our melee weapons that let us use them against other targets.

 

Making our knight variants actually interesting to pick among. As it stands, each knight is more "Battle Cannon Flavour, Thermal Cannon Flavour" instead of being meaningful variant names. Would be nice if Paladins made their RFBC better.

 

 

I mean, in terms of speculation it is kind of difficult. We know that factions these days now get multiple layers of benefits just by themselves but for knights we are the unique case (along with chaos knights I suppose) where we have a secondary Sub-Faction in our Questor Keywords (ether being Imperialis or Mechanicus). So we will have our Pure faction bonus, Household Faction trait and also our Questor Allegiance benefit. If the concept of quests are also going to happen then I certainly think if you hate having to keep numerous buffs in mind then knights might be a hard bow out for you. However...if there was a faction that had that as a gimmick, knights should be it!

[UtariOnzo]

The balance dataslate already gave Armigers Obsec. It also gave us counts as 10 models or 5 models for Armigers.

 

What I'm interested in is if we get any of the new weapons that Chaos Knights are getting. I'm fine if we don't get the same flexibility in loadouts, I'm even fine if we don't get the Psyker Knight. But having some other options for Armigers could be fun. I don't really want anymore big Knights, I have a Valiant and the 2 mid-size ones are fully magnetized. I have more room in my case for a couple more Armigers.

It did? Well forgive me for missing it! The house move must have blind sided me, but that is great news and gives me a reason to field more of them.

 

As for more options for Armigers, you’ll have my second there, even if I do love the full sized kits (Dominatus, 2x Cerastus and a magnetised Questor here)

[ValourousHeart]

It did? Well forgive me for missing it! The house move must have blind sided me, but that is great news and gives me a reason to field more of them.

As for more options for Armigers, you’ll have my second there, even if I do love the full sized kits (Dominatus, 2x Cerastus and a magnetised Questor here)

 

I wasn't picking on you for not knowing.  I was wanted to point you to where that information was.

 

The only thing the dataslate didn't give us was clarification about how the relic Banner of Macharius Triumphant works with the new rules.  The weakest variant would be Obsec on a Questoris knight.  But since the relic also gave you counts as 10 models when other Knights didn't have that, it could also increase the number of models you count as to be more than 10.  But I guess it wasn't that popular of a relic.  And we are getting our codex in 2 to 3 months, so it doesn't much matter at this point.

 

I like the full size knights too, but I'd like to field all of my Knights in a 2000 point game, and with that leaked data sheet, I'm not sure I will anymore.  So I'm reluctant to spend $170 to pick up a knight that I won't be able to get on the table.  I'm less reluctant about buying more Armigers because I didn't magnetize them and they are comparably cheap.

[Karhedron]

I like the full size knights too, but I'd like to field all of my Knights in a 2000 point game, and with that leaked data sheet, I'm not sure I will anymore.  So I'm reluctant to spend $170 to pick up a knight that I won't be able to get on the table.  I'm less reluctant about buying more Armigers because I didn't magnetize them and they are comparably cheap.

I think the leaked data sheets have been debunked (for better or worse). The chap who refuted them was the one who accurately confirmed and denied a lot of the Eldar rumours a couple of months back so I am inclined to trust his track record. We will still have to wait and see I think.

[Karhedron]

New weapons stats are starting to appear.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/07/who-wears-it-better-imperial-and-chaos-knights-get-upgraded-weapons/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=knights-thing&fbclid=IwAR14zdZjnze9zBMONgldhuspZ7kNmqqL8QLpXOVh6De4pDdUtj1x6Tv52Mg

 

This pretty much confirms that the "leaked" data sheets are fake since the stats for the Plasma Decimator are quite different to those shown on the Castellan sheet. Nothing is certain, everything is still to play for.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Karhedron

[sairence]

I find it really curious they left D6/2D6 shots on the Las-weapon. Kinda makes me think it'll stay for others as well and keeps those guns super-swingy. Edited April 8, 2022 by sairence

[Karhedron]

They had fixed the damage so I guess they didn't want to remove too much randomness. Blast already provides a floor to the number of shots, at least against numerous targets.

[spessmarine]

the good ol' source has been posting a bit

https://www.reddit.com/user/Ok_Entrepreneur3004/comments/

 

- datasheets fake

- preceptor has a "chaplain" role

- heroicness mechanic

Judging by today's article, this source remains as reliable as ever

[Focslain]

And here is the the preceptor as a chaplain: Warcom Article

 

Honestly I kind of hope there is a way to give this mentor ability to other frames. With my house being a academy I'd love to use this on other frames.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Focslain

[ValourousHeart]

And here is the the preceptor as a chaplain: Warcom Article

 

Honestly I kind of hope there is a way to give this mentor ability to other frames. With my house being a academy I'd love to use this on other frames.

 

Agreed.

 

GW could easily do something like they did with the Dark Angels and the Rites of Initiation.  That rule identified 7 units from Codex Space Marines that could be given the Deathwing keyword that they didn't normally have it.

 

I don't know that every knight should get it, like the Gallant and Crusader probably shouldn't get it.  And maybe not the Doninus class knights either.  Perhaps the give a more limited version to specific Knights, like Knight Errants can be upgraded to mentor Warglaves, and Paladins or Wardens can upgrade to mentor Helverins.

[chapter master 454]

Curious to see what rule allows our armigers to do actions that are normally locked to infantry, just saying. As it stands, only access is through any secondaries they will give us and if that is all then that 1 teaching will be nigh useless, otherwise possible hint at armigers becoming able to perform actions like they are infantry?

[Karhedron]

Or one or more of our Secondaries allow/require Knights to perform actions.

[BloodyB]

Looking forward to the upgraded plasma profile for the Castellan, it kind of needs it. The Strike/Sweep profiles for the Reaper make so much sense, especially since nine times out of ten I would use the stomps anyway, and take the fist for bigger threats, making the sword more relevant is a must. Assuming these changes go through, I would be very happy.

[ValourousHeart]

More knight stuff.  HERE.

 

Looks like Preceptors won't be the only Knights able to boost Armigers.

 

Plus Exalted Court means a lot more in the new codex.  Like our version of Chapter Command.

 

Also sounds if you plan on leaning into the honor mechanics, then one of the exalted court gets you to that second buff on turn 2 instead of turn 3.

Edited April 26, 2022 by ValourousHeart

[ValourousHeart]

New Warhammer Community article.

 

Freeblades don't break army rules.

And 3 Armigers count as a Freeblade with ObSec.

[BloodyB]

New Warhammer Community article.

 

Freeblades don't break army rules.

And 3 Armigers count as a Freeblade with ObSec.

The freeblade thing is looking so good right now, at last Lord Guilliman has updated the sacred Codex Astartes to tell the Space Marines what to do when the giant robot is on their team!

[ValourousHeart]

Imperial Knight Codex up for Pre-Order this weekend.  LINK

 

Also announced is a reboxing of Armigers and Dominus class Knights.

All weapon options for both Imperial and Chaos will be in the boxes.

 

I wonder if that means these Chaos Armiger weapons will also be available to Imperial Armigers?

[MagicHat]

No, they said that you can build two Helverins or 2 Warglaives. No chaos variants in this box. Huntsmen and Executioners are renamed Helverins and Warglaives.

 

The Knight Armigers box will now make either two shooty Helverins or a pair of up-close-and-personal Warglaives – or one of each! It can also be corrupted by Chaos Knights players into a  duo of War Dog Huntsmen or War Dog Executioners.

 

I think it is nice to combine the Armigers, as their armour plates varies so much. The Dominus shares so many identical pieces though...

 

Pleasantly surprised that the Knights codex comes out at the same time as the chaos box though, I thought it would wait for regular release!

Edited May 1, 2022 by MagicHat

[ValourousHeart]

I missed that.  Since I wasn't interested in the Chaos Knight box, I skipped over that text completely, until just now.

 

Apparently the big Chaos box set builds 2 War Dog in one of three ways... Karnivore, Stalker, and Brigand.  So with the Huntsmen and Executioner, that is 5 different variants of War Dogs for Chaos.  I don't know if we can expect equal treatment for Imperial Knights, but I'm hoping.

 

I was working off the assumption weapon on the far left was the Warglave's Thermal Spear, but the barrels are different.  So it might be another new weapon.  With Autocannons, Thermal Lance, Gatling Gun, a Flamer (maybe?), 2 types of Chainswords (potentially different stats), a Claw, and 3 secondary weapons, melta, stubber and missile launcher gives the War Dog platform a lot of flexibility.

 

I guess I'll need to wait until the codex comes out to see if I'm buying either of the new Armiger kits.  I'm hoping we get some of these new options, because it would be nice to build a new set of Armigers with the same full set of magnetized options like I did for my Questors.

[Karhedron]

Apparently the big Chaos box set builds 2 War Dog in one of three ways... Karnivore, Stalker, and Brigand.  So with the Huntsmen and Executioner, that is 5 different variants of War Dogs for Chaos.  I don't know if we can expect equal treatment for Imperial Knights, but I'm hoping.

The article specifically calls out Warglaives and Helverins which implies we are going to be stuck with the existing loadouts. To be fair we have mixed and shooty loadouts, would we want a pure melee armiger?

[Focslain]

I missed that.  Since I wasn't interested in the Chaos Knight box, I skipped over that text completely, until just now.

 

Apparently the big Chaos box set builds 2 War Dog in one of three ways... Karnivore, Stalker, and Brigand.  So with the Huntsmen and Executioner, that is 5 different variants of War Dogs for Chaos.  I don't know if we can expect equal treatment for Imperial Knights, but I'm hoping.

 

I was working off the assumption weapon on the far left was the Warglave's Thermal Spear, but the barrels are different.  So it might be another new weapon.  With Autocannons, Thermal Lance, Gatling Gun, a Flamer (maybe?), 2 types of Chainswords (potentially different stats), a Claw, and 3 secondary weapons, melta, stubber and missile launcher gives the War Dog platform a lot of flexibility.

 

I guess I'll need to wait until the codex comes out to see if I'm buying either of the new Armiger kits.  I'm hoping we get some of these new options, because it would be nice to build a new set of Armigers with the same full set of magnetized options like I did for my Questors.

 

There is no flamer, that is the thermal spear. The chaos kit has the new chain cannon, power fist and havoc launcher as new. The rest of the weapons are just remodeled version of our thermal spear, autocannon and chain cleaver.

 

I doubt that Imperials are getting a new armigar kit. I'd love a new armigar class, but it isn't happening. Figure the 5 armigar classes for chaos is cause one of thier knight classes (the despoiler) is effectively 5 of our questoris classes.

[Focslain]

 

The article specifically calls out Warglaives and Helverins which implies we are going to be stuck with the existing loadouts. To be fair we have mixed and shooty loadouts, would we want a pure melee armiger?

 

 

We have one, just that it's a FW model. The moriax armed with twin siege claws/rad cleansers. No a good one either, but it's there.

[chapter master 454]

So, with apparently now the Imperial Knight Codex leaked somewhere and Auspex Tactics doing the Omnissiah's work, we know what we are getting.

As codices go, looks like the Knights are not going to be overbearing like other codices have been. Whether this is from more care put into them for whatever reason or possibly because they don't need to balance so many units. That being said, some gripes.

 

The Chivalric Codes are neat but I do agree some sentiments that they are far too weighted on melee. To be frank, kind of disappointed there is only 4 of them (while Chaos got this massive table for effects) with no special ones for Mechanicus and Imperialis (which for the rest of the book there is mostly). Would of been nice to at least have 1 Imperalis unique code and 1 mechanicus unique code.

As it stands, I believe we will see a lot of the same codes taken over and over again due to needing to be built into the list (and not chosen at battle start) which further cements it as weaker than the chaos weather power. Defend the Realm seems like a no-brainer, especially with Rotate going up and then from there just pick whichever one suits best, personally the one with the troth being about not getting 2 unit kills a turn seems the best as the others seem meh for my personal preference. The codes are neat but are super underwhelming (and imo, weak).

 

The profiles for the guns are not great ether. We still have garbage random shot weapons for a lot of things, 2D6 on the RFBC along with the Preceptor also still have 2D6 and D6 for the Las-Impulsor. Only good marks are the damage profiles getting fixed up, Volcano Lance certainly gets a shine with now it's floor damage being it's previous edition ceiling (9 damage) however going to D3 shots is a bit of a mark down...especially when it is still a blast weapon. The Thermal cannon too also gets some consistency with 2D3 instead of D6, helps it at least rolling fat 1s all the time. The +2 damage at base is nice but certainly not sure about it.

 

The big glow-up however is certainly found in Armigers, which may be where our true stars come from now with how much we can buff them. Their Thermal spears are now consistent (I like the 2 shots base. Consistency is proven to be better than highs and lows) and still have some serious melee bite. The helverins too also getting a small hand with AP2 on their autocannons, means they can maybe start punching some holes in tanks proper now.

 

Warlord traits now feel a lot more usable but still suffer from "we will ALWAYS take these ones", Ion Bulwark is basically getting perma-rotate for a knight. By itselfs investing that one CP now saves even more!

 

Dominus getting hit pretty hard sadly. However their bevvy of ranged firepower was always their power, often able to take care of multiple problems in one turn.

 

Relics are pretty good too. However due to the changes to how we gain character keyword, I suspect that mot knight lists will very likely be a list of few CP again with wanting relics, traits and even the bonus trait. Again...kind of why I believe defend the Realm will be in EVERY knight list.

 

Also, my biggest gripe: Rubber Ducky (Stratagem: Death Grip) is no longer a thing! BOO! I want to squeeze my rubber ducky! Oh well...at least I got to rubber ducky a Custodes Shield Captain on Dawn Eagle Jetbike before it went (and he was a kitted out one too. Very Satisfying!)

 

We will see where the book takes us. Certainly not a downgrade but I feel that the upgrades we got were very expensive for what we lost. Never know.

[Karhedron]

Full review here to save googling.