The T'au.... Holy Carp....

[Sigvard]

Hail Wolves of the Rout.

 

Today I played my first game of 9th and it was genuinely good to be back.

 

The way battles work now is great and gives you some interesting things to focus on. Secondary objectives I love and hate equally - forgot to declare one in the 1st turn command phase and lost 15 command points by smearing a Cadre Fireblade like raspberry jam. Strategems are... A bit much.. With two books to work from they are genuinely a lot to remember.

 

I ran from what I could put together an OK list with a Wolf Lord (Captain) Primaris Chaplain on a bike, some troops, a Redemptor, some Wolf Guard Terminators and some Eradicators and whilst I had some crappy rolls I genuinely couldn't keep up. Everything T'au seems to put out is a better version of what we have and for a more economical cost. Broadsides for 50 extra points on the Eradicators are terrifying and Crysis Suits.... Maaaaaan....next up is a Crusher Stampede before the new Nids Codex drops...I think I will back to the drawing board in the interim to tinker with the list...

Edited March 20, 2022 by Sigvard

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I suspect tau nerfs are inbound so patience may help. This is an unfortunate side effect of being early in the edition is you tend to get bad as codex creep sets in.

 

On strategems, it is alot. I buy the cards because I can look through them when I build my list and put the ones I plan to use together on top. You don't need the cards to do this and can do it with some clever photocopying of ever hand copy to note cards, but is reduces the volume considerably when you only need to look at 15 or so instead of the like 90 we get.

[TiguriusX]

The meta is completely broken right now

 

Custodes / Tau / Nids / Aeldari are all heads and shoulders above other codexes

 

 

Unless something ridiculous happens all other armies should get their teeth kicked in

 

If you play SW try to have fun in your own way

 

I make mini games when i am in a bad match and focus on killing a specific unit or model

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Aeldari is nowhere near broken (they are my other army). Honestly I think they dropped pretty balanced. They are certainly not set up to be S-Tier. I expect once they hit the competitive scene you will see them at a 50-55% win rate even after tau and custodes nerfs maybe a slight bump but once tau and cutodes get nerves everyonewill see that bump. Their troops are really ineffective due to durability and they are paying prices similar to marines for most of their harder hitting stuff on mostly less durable bodies. I honestly think they are quite well balanced for a release this edition, they are certainly not Tau and Custodes tier. Those 2 armies are incredibly easy to win with as they are under-pointed for the capabilities they have. I know this is a bit off topic but I'm trying to temper setting up another bogeyman where (pending some broken combo no one has found yet) there really isn't one.

 

Back on topic, ill second finding mitigates to keep your enjoyment up. Also play the mission agressively early on. Choose secondaries you can get points on every turn and push to get your max primaries. This is where the game is won, not by killing their army so try to design your list accordingly.

 

Also on secondaries, Oaths of Moment from the marine codex is easily one of your better choices in most games. Its pretty reliable for 3 points a turn if you can play to it.

[Xenith]

Tau are strong, but if your opponent isn't bringing horrible lists, then things will be more fair. Strat reserve eradicators can deal with a lot of stuff. They can saviour protocols one hit away (I think) but the rest will go into the broadsides or riptide. Hide and shoot suits are annoying, whirlwinds can help, maybe an orbital bombardment? The most annoying thing I've founf is the D2 missile pods. They were always autocannons, with similar stats, the 2D I can deal with, but getting -2AP also? I think they should have been one or the other. 

 

I'd build lists to play the missions, and focus on staying alive - might be the best way! Also, have enough terrain on the table.

[Guest Triszin]

The meta is completely broken right now

 

Custodes / Tau / Nids / Aeldari are all heads and shoulders above other codexes

 

 

Unless something ridiculous happens all other armies should get their teeth kicked in

 

If you play SW try to have fun in your own way

 

I make mini games when i am in a bad match and focus on killing a specific unit or model

It really does feel like the new codex's since Nov are playing a different edition (9.5).

 

I hope everyone can get revamped to the scale they are

[TiguriusX]

Aeldari is nowhere near broken (they are my other army). Honestly I think they dropped pretty balanced. They are certainly not set up to be S-Tier. I expect once they hit the competitive scene you will see them at a 50-55% win rate even after tau and custodes nerfs maybe a slight bump but once tau and cutodes get nerves everyonewill see that bump. Their troops are really ineffective due to durability and they are paying prices similar to marines for most of their harder hitting stuff on mostly less durable bodies. I honestly think they are quite well balanced for a release this edition, they are certainly not Tau and Custodes tier. Those 2 armies are incredibly easy to win with as they are under-pointed for the capabilities they have. I know this is a bit off topic but I'm trying to temper setting up another bogeyman where (pending some broken combo no one has found yet) there really isn't one.

 

Back on topic, ill second finding mitigates to keep your enjoyment up. Also play the mission agressively early on. Choose secondaries you can get points on every turn and push to get your max primaries. This is where the game is won, not by killing their army so try to design your list accordingly.

 

Also on secondaries, Oaths of Moment from the marine codex is easily one of your better choices in most games. Its pretty reliable for 3 points a turn if you can play to it.

Have to disagree

 

Played against harlies a few times already and they are insane

 

Mobility + shooting + primary/secondary scoring easy for them

 

The staple of harlies is fast flying transports that steal objectives and dump obsec troops out if you kill it.

 

The codex added superior shooting as a complimentary tool

 

Shuriken cannons being D2 is a huuuuuge change you dont appreciate until you are on the receiving end

 

3 units of void weavers for TTL and they use fire and fade plus mobility to do whatever they want

 

6 anti tank prismatic shots (s12 ap4 2d3 damage)

18 shuriken cannon shots (s6 ap1 2 damage)

That unit is ideal for killing custodes and tau suits with drones

 

Tran:cuss rule combined with 4++ gives them sneaky durability while their guns chew through anything

*lol rule got censored

trans hit man...anything less than 4 fails to hit if outside 12"

combo with shadowseer range modifier it becomes 6"

 

You need to choose between killing voidweavers or starweavers (same defensive profile)

 

Dont forget mirage launchers that turn iff hit rerolls as well

 

You need to spam anti tank guns to reliably kill their primary units and it is worth 1 bring it down point...yay!

Expect 9 voidweavers and 5 or so starweavers per list...looks like good bring it down scoring but you wont kill more than half unless you get lucky

 

Most armies dont have that kind of ranged firepower and they cant take the counter punch after exposing their own units

 

The harlie player on my team is 10-0 using new rules into competitive matches (tau custodes etc)

 

From personal experience harlies are cutting through custodes like a hot knife through butter

 

My team needed a fill in so i am playing custodes for them (SW are not viable at all currently)

 

Expect to see tons of emmisaries shield hosts as the counter move

 

Our team simply decided i will dodge harlies and fight any other army

 

The star/void weaver profiles are worse than drukhari transport and dark lance problem...it just hasnt been played enough IRL to spread yet.

 

The meta for TTS has no delay for painting assembling etc.

Edited March 21, 2022 by TiguriusX

[Karhedron]

I agree, I don't think Eldar are in the same league as Custodes or Tau. While most of their units got buffed in the new Codex, they generally got price increases too so Eldar are going to be even more glass cannony than they already were. Add to that Dire Avengers were moved from Troops to Elites making Troop tax even more of a problem.

 

I am going slightly OT there as the OP's problem is Tau. Yes, Tau is massive and poor old Marines seem to have been somewhat left behind the power curve by these upstart xenos. There are no easy solutions but there are some things you can do to help.

 

Firstly, Tau are only BS4+ so even at top profile, half of everything they throw at you will miss. This makes buffs and nerfs to their shooting crucial. Tau are likely to try and slap Markerlights on key targets. Use of terrain will be crucial to your survival. It is often not possible to get your units where you want them without exposing them to enemy fire but if you can make sure you best units are out of LOS of either big guns OR Markerlight units, you can help to reduce incoming fire. Anything that slaps a negative to-Hit modifier on a unit is worth a look too so keeping an eye on units with the SMOKESCREEN keyword is handy.

 

Last of all, Tau have not psychic defenses so look at what help your Rune Priests can bring. Tempest's Wrath and Stormcaller can nerf a key Tau shooting unit or buff one of your units in the open respectively. Shrouding and Hallucination from the Obscuratus Discipline can also come in helpful. Phobos units are some of our best Troops and starting with a few units of Infiltrators and Incursors in the midfield can really help put pressure on the Tau early on.

 

Come prepared for melee, even if it seems optimistic. Even Crisis Suits come with 4 wounds each so pack a scattering of Power Fists among your squads so that if you do catch them in melee, you can make some damage stick.

 

Lastly, be canny with your firepower. Remember that damage has to be allocated to damaged models in a unit first. If you have managed to chip a wound or two off a Battlesuit, pour firepower into the unit until it falls. Your opponent cannot allocate any wounds to Drones if a suit is wounded except via use of the Stratagem (and that is once per phase only).

[Sigvard]

I agree, I don't think Eldar are in the same league as Custodes or Tau. While most of their units got buffed in the new Codex, they generally got price increases too so Eldar are going to be even more glass cannony than they already were. Add to that Dire Avengers were moved from Troops to Elites making Troop tax even more of a problem.

 

I am going slightly OT there as the OP's problem is Tau. Yes, Tau is massive and poor old Marines seem to have been somewhat left behind the power curve by these upstart xenos. There are no easy solutions but there are some things you can do to help.

 

Firstly, Tau are only BS4+ so even at top profile, half of everything they throw at you will miss. This makes buffs and nerfs to their shooting crucial. Tau are likely to try and slap Markerlights on key targets. Use of terrain will be crucial to your survival. It is often not possible to get your units where you want them without exposing them to enemy fire but if you can make sure you best units are out of LOS of either big guns OR Markerlight units, you can help to reduce incoming fire. Anything that slaps a negative to-Hit modifier on a unit is worth a look too so keeping an eye on units with the SMOKESCREEN keyword is handy.

 

Last of all, Tau have not psychic defenses so look at what help your Rune Priests can bring. Tempest's Wrath and Stormcaller can nerf a key Tau shooting unit or buff one of your units in the open respectively. Shrouding and Hallucination from the Obscuratus Discipline can also come in helpful. Phobos units are some of our best Troops and starting with a few units of Infiltrators and Incursors in the midfield can really help put pressure on the Tau early on.

 

Come prepared for melee, even if it seems optimistic. Even Crisis Suits come with 4 wounds each so pack a scattering of Power Fists among your squads so that if you do catch them in melee, you can make some damage stick.

 

Lastly, be canny with your firepower. Remember that damage has to be allocated to damaged models in a unit first. If you have managed to chip a wound or two off a Battlesuit, pour firepower into the unit until it falls. Your opponent cannot allocate any wounds to Drones if a suit is wounded except via use of the Stratagem (and that is once per phase only).

So T'au can only allocate a wound to a drone by using the stratagem? He was doing that willy nilly with every bit of shooting? I thought wound allocation was down the the defending player to decide? So if I dump all my Eradicato shots into his Broadsides which are unwounded he can just tank them with his drones?

[TiguriusX]

 

I agree, I don't think Eldar are in the same league as Custodes or Tau. While most of their units got buffed in the new Codex, they generally got price increases too so Eldar are going to be even more glass cannony than they already were. Add to that Dire Avengers were moved from Troops to Elites making Troop tax even more of a problem.

 

I am going slightly OT there as the OP's problem is Tau. Yes, Tau is massive and poor old Marines seem to have been somewhat left behind the power curve by these upstart xenos. There are no easy solutions but there are some things you can do to help.

 

Firstly, Tau are only BS4+ so even at top profile, half of everything they throw at you will miss. This makes buffs and nerfs to their shooting crucial. Tau are likely to try and slap Markerlights on key targets. Use of terrain will be crucial to your survival. It is often not possible to get your units where you want them without exposing them to enemy fire but if you can make sure you best units are out of LOS of either big guns OR Markerlight units, you can help to reduce incoming fire. Anything that slaps a negative to-Hit modifier on a unit is worth a look too so keeping an eye on units with the SMOKESCREEN keyword is handy.

 

Last of all, Tau have not psychic defenses so look at what help your Rune Priests can bring. Tempest's Wrath and Stormcaller can nerf a key Tau shooting unit or buff one of your units in the open respectively. Shrouding and Hallucination from the Obscuratus Discipline can also come in helpful. Phobos units are some of our best Troops and starting with a few units of Infiltrators and Incursors in the midfield can really help put pressure on the Tau early on.

 

Come prepared for melee, even if it seems optimistic. Even Crisis Suits come with 4 wounds each so pack a scattering of Power Fists among your squads so that if you do catch them in melee, you can make some damage stick.

 

Lastly, be canny with your firepower. Remember that damage has to be allocated to damaged models in a unit first. If you have managed to chip a wound or two off a Battlesuit, pour firepower into the unit until it falls. Your opponent cannot allocate any wounds to Drones if a suit is wounded except via use of the Stratagem (and that is once per phase only).

So T'au can only allocate a wound to a drone by using the stratagem? He was doing that willy nilly with every bit of shooting? I thought wound allocation was down the the defending player to decide? So if I dump all my Eradicato shots into his Broadsides which are unwounded he can just tank them with his drones?

There are 2 drone mechanics

 

1st is regular wound allocation

2nd is a stratagem to eat a wound failed nearby

 

Choosing firing order is how you beat tau (*in theory...in RL they will drown you in indirect fire so it doesnt matter....but there is a right and wrong way to shoot them)

 

You change how you fire based on what is taking saves

 

Dont unload anti tank until drones are dead or he started saving on the real target

 

When a wound is allocated to a drone it keeps making 4++ saves until it dies then he gets to pick another

Edited March 21, 2022 by TiguriusX

[Karhedron]

Conversely, if you get any low AP shots, the Tau player may be tempted to tank small arms shots on the battlesuit. This can backfire if any saves fail. Once the suit is wounded, any further hits must be allocated to the suit (apart from using the Stratagem). This is as per the main rulebook.

 

So the way to burn through Drone defences is to target the suit with your high ROF weapons first. Force the unit to take a bunch of trivial saves for 1D weapons. If the Tau player takes the saves on the Drones, they will fall pretty quickly as they only have 1W. If they take a save on the Suit and are unlucky enough to fail, that exposes the suit to all future shots.

 

Basically, don't waste your heaviest weapons until the Drones have been stripped away or you have sneaked a wound onto a Suit.

[Toldavf]

Shield drones have 2 wounds though, and its not uncommon to see up to 10 in a unit. Having to chew through 24 t5 4++ wounds before you get any meaningful damage is harsh. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

*Snip*

Have to disagree

 

Played against harlies a few times already and they are insane

 

Mobility + shooting + primary/secondary scoring easy for them

 

The staple of harlies is fast flying transports that steal objectives and dump obsec troops out if you kill it.

 

The codex added superior shooting as a complimentary tool

 

Shuriken cannons being D2 is a huuuuuge change you dont appreciate until you are on the receiving end

 

3 units of void weavers for TTL and they use fire and fade plus mobility to do whatever they want

 

6 anti tank prismatic shots (s12 ap4 2d3 damage)

18 shuriken cannon shots (s6 ap1 2 damage)

That unit is ideal for killing custodes and tau suits with drones

 

Tran:cuss rule combined with 4++ gives them sneaky durability while their guns chew through anything

*lol rule got censored

trans hit man...anything less than 4 fails to hit if outside 12"

combo with shadowseer range modifier it becomes 6"

 

You need to choose between killing voidweavers or starweavers (same defensive profile)

 

Dont forget mirage launchers that turn iff hit rerolls as well

 

You need to spam anti tank guns to reliably kill their primary units and it is worth 1 bring it down point...yay!

Expect 9 voidweavers and 5 or so starweavers per list...looks like good bring it down scoring but you wont kill more than half unless you get lucky

 

Most armies dont have that kind of ranged firepower and they cant take the counter punch after exposing their own units

 

The harlie player on my team is 10-0 using new rules into competitive matches (tau custodes etc)

 

From personal experience harlies are cutting through custodes like a hot knife through butter

 

My team needed a fill in so i am playing custodes for them (SW are not viable at all currently)

 

Expect to see tons of emmisaries shield hosts as the counter move

 

Our team simply decided i will dodge harlies and fight any other army

 

The star/void weaver profiles are worse than drukhari transport and dark lance problem...it just hasnt been played enough IRL to spread yet.

 

The meta for TTS has no delay for painting assembling etc.

Too be clear I was talking Craftworlds Aeldari. Didn't used to have to clarify when the dex's were seperate, my bad. I dont own harlies so I have not had any experience with them in particular.

[Karhedron]

Shield drones have 2 wounds though, and its not uncommon to see up to 10 in a unit. Having to chew through 24 t5 4++ wounds before you get any meaningful damage is harsh.

It does not work like that anymore though and I think some Tau players have not realised how the rules have changed. Let's imagine a Broadside with a pair of Drones and also a separate squad of Drones from the FA slot.

 

I start off shooting at the Broadside and score some Wounds. The Tau player has the option to take the saves on the Broadside or on it's own Drones (since they are part of the same unit). Tau players can no longer sacrifice Drones that are not part of the unit the way they could in 8th edition. This is a big change so watch out for players accidentally using the old rules.

 

The only way to approximate the old behaviour is to use the "Saviour Protocols" stratgem. This is once per-turn only like all stratgems so your opponent can no longer use a big squad of Drones to soak unlimted firepower on Suits. In fact using Saviour protocols on a Shield Drone is a bit of a waste since the Drone is automatically destroyed, regardless of saves or Wounds so it is better used on a cheap gun Drone.

 

So if the Broadside takes a Wound or loses its own Drones, pour in the fire. The best your opponent can do is to soak one additional hit with Saviour Protocols but the rest of the damage will go through on the Broadside.

 

Are Suits and Drones a tough combo to deal with? Absolutely! But they are not unstoppable with a bit of planning. From the text above, it sounds like your opponent may be accidentally mixing 8th and 9th edition rules. There is no longer a blanket rule allowing Tau players to pass wounds off onto Drones. Just the once-per-phase Stratgem.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Karhedron

[Toldavf]

Sorry I meant 10 in a crisis death star. Its 120 points but the protection is insane.

[Kallas]

Also worth noting with regards to wound allocation: if they allocate any shots to a Suit, then they must continue allocating to a Suit; they can't later switch to Drones unless that Suit has been killed.

 

This changed from 8th to 9th, and I'm very familiar with it because of how it changed the way Deathwatch mixed squads worked - you used to be able to tank low AP shots on the Terminators and the high AP on the Storm Shields, but 9th has closed that (which is overall much better for the game).

[TiguriusX]

If the tau has crisis suits and max drones that is his death star unit with 400-500 points invested

 

Of course shooting isnt doing much. We are SW and dont have dominating firepower.

 

Grav fangs might take a chunk out of them but need catechism of fire (+1 wound closest) to scare the tau

 

Your best bet is to melee them

 

Remember crisis suits can fire into melee but ONLY models within their engagement range

 

You can maneuver and neuter their guns

 

*assuming you survive overwatch and -2 to charge stratagem...

 

You are probably better off trying to kill the rest of his army instead

 

But Tau with indirect are just a bad matchup for SW

Edited March 25, 2022 by TiguriusX