The series so "groundbreaking" they cancelled book 3

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

"Even as relative newcomers on the galactic stage, the Ynnari are an important part of the continuing Warhammer narrative.** Find out what their leader Yvraine and her death-worshipping followers are up to in Ghost Warrior, the first instalment in the groundbreaking Rise of the Ynnari series..."

 

I'm not sure that's the word to use to describe a series that had neither the sales nor the apparent importance within the 40K universe to merit actually concluding it.

 

Tell me Gav Thorpe wrote this article without telling me Gav Thorpe wrote this article.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/22/starting-an-aeldari-army-find-out-what-theyve-been-up-to-lately-with-black-library/

[Slave to Darkness]

Damn he wrote the book, not sure if I wanna read it now. Am curious to know whats going on though. Ill just wait till some of the Frater read it and find out if its good. 

[Sothalor]

I'm very confident Gav Thorpe did not write this article as Gav Thorpe, to the best of my knowledge, is no longer employed directly by Games Workshop.

 

I'm very confident that who did write the article was the Warhammer Community team, which undoubtedly consists of one or several individuals tasked with churning out piles of marketing slop to shovel out on a daily basis. I can practically guarantee you (and we've seen plenty of evidence for this - eg. Saturnine and Sanguinius' showdown with Kha'Banda) that the WC team actually groks very little of what they're talking about.

 

We see it in everything from their articles about BL novels to rules previews to articles about upcoming model releases.

 

They get fed a list of buzzwords, pictures, and talking points, and are directed to drive site traffic and drum interest with little regard to factual accuracy. 

 

 

Source: am marketing guy who believes in being truthful and accurate in marketing materials, and who is frequently fed up with the bull:cuss, "factual massaging", and outright bloody ignorance of what they're selling that is endemic among marketing teams.

[theSpirea]

Is there a list of writers directly employed by GW/BL? I didn't even know Gav is freelancing for them now.

[Sothalor]

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios. 

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

[Moonreaper666]

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios.

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

Don't they still write novels for BL/Warhammer?

[cheywood]

 

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios.

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

Don't they still write novels for BL/Warhammer?

All the authors are freelance, so they’re not employees unless they work for GW in another role.

[Knockagh]

The eldar are far and away my favourite faction in 40K, this series really excited me when it came out at first. I was so pleased the eldar would be a central player in the new dispensation in 40K and equally annoyed when they just got set aside.

Even the phoenix lords series seems to have been forgotten. Jain Zar was the last one and it was superb. If Gav has tired of writing them that’s fair enough and I would never advocate BL forcing a writer to write any faction, that’s a disaster. But I’m really sad to see such a rich vein of 40K discarded so casually.

[Fenriwolf]

Don't quote me on that but i seem to recall him writing somewhere that he was told by the higher powers at BL to put the PL serie on hold (i can't honestly remind if he told the reason he was given)

[sitnam]

Damn he wrote the book, not sure if I wanna read it now. Am curious to know whats going on though. Ill just wait till some of the Frater read it and find out if its good.

I liked Jain Zar, and from what I've heard the Rise of the Ynarri was well received. I also like Wolftime though, so YMMV

[caladancid]

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios. 

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

 

It is straight ridiculous that Rachel Harrison works for them in any capacity other than author/writer while they are still periodically hiring Gav Thorpe and Andy Clark (among others) to write.

[Ubiquitous1984]

 

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios. 

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

 

It is straight ridiculous that Rachel Harrison works for them in any capacity other than author/writer while they are still periodically hiring Gav Thorpe and Andy Clark (among others) to write.

 

Respectfully have to disagree with you here.  Clark and Gav have both produced good books for the DoF series IMO.  Luther was also decent.  

[Sothalor]

 

 

It is straight ridiculous that Rachel Harrison works for them in any capacity other than author/writer while they are still periodically hiring Gav Thorpe and Andy Clark (among others) to write.

 

 

That may not be up to them - any given individual is only able to output so much over any given time.

[Noserenda]

Yeah the Phoenix lord series was awesome, and building up some really interesting threads when it stopped :/ Unfortunately a fair few series got stopped in their prime for various reasons over the years :( 

[Scribe]

I'm telling you, they regret that whole line of the meta plot and realize it doesnt fit. ;)

[Von Großschmitt]

 

 

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios. 

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

 

It is straight ridiculous that Rachel Harrison works for them in any capacity other than author/writer while they are still periodically hiring Gav Thorpe and Andy Clark (among others) to write.

 

Respectfully have to disagree with you here.  Clark and Gav have both produced good books for the DoF series IMO.  Luther was also decent.  

 

 

I think their additions to the DoF series are fine, Clark's in particular. And yeah, Luther was one of the better Thorpe novels. I'd even dare say some portions were downright good. But generally, I believe Thorpe is just a very, very flawed writer, and even in his decent output, it always shows. Hence my disappointment in him getting one of the rare SoT gigs...

Edited March 22, 2022 by Von Großschmitt

[Moonreaper666]

I doubt the entire Eldar race, plus Trazyn and a massive Imperial Armada with several Ork Waaaghs worth of Mercenaries can last a few days, let alone a few years in the Warp to make it to Slaanesh's realm

 

That last Crone Sword is 'Here to Stay' as Korn puts it

[DarkChaplain]

Don't quote me on that but i seem to recall him writing somewhere that he was told by the higher powers at BL to put the PL serie on hold (i can't honestly remind if he told the reason he was given)

Some tidbits from Gav's website:

 

 

At present, the plan is for six novels, each titled after one of the Phoenix Lords from the 2nd Edition Codex: Eldar. So that will include Baharroth. The Cry of the Wind (as far as I know) has no Craftworld, as like all the Phoenix Lords he spends his immortal life moving from one war to another as fate and the Will of Asuryan dictate.

 

 

It hasn’t been agreed who is next and I would like to avoid the format becoming formulaic with Asurmen and company finding a new recruit and then that eldar being the focus of the next book. It was never my intent that the post-Fall backstory formed too much of a book-to-book narrative, it just worked well with Jain Zar.

 

These are from October 2017. That was the year of the Gathering Storm / 8th, iirc.

 

Later on, I recall Gav writing that he wasn't planning to write the next Phoenix Lords novel due to Ynnari, but also said that he didn't necessarily expect to be the only author on the Phoenix Lords. Then it turned out neither series was selling enough, and - correct me if I'm wrong, I cannot find the original post anymore - Eldar just didn't do well enough for BL when compared to Space Marines/Primaris at the time.

 

And then there was this back in December 2020:

https://twitter.com/gavthorpecreate/status/1334068305053835265?

 

Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like Black Library will be commissioning any more Rise of the Ynnari. Sales for Wild Rider were below expectation, which I find disappointing because there is clearly an enthusiastic audience for Aeldari fiction and Wild Rider seemed well-received.

 

https://twitter.com/GavThorpeCreate/status/1334762849676259328

 

A third was always planned but it’s not on my schedule at present.

 

While I'd argue that right now, the Xenos love is growing among BL editors and commissions, and that Eldar may see a return at some point... I'm sure Gav is pretty much as frustrated as we are.

 

We also never got the third planned Harlequin audio drama, btw. It's been three years.

 

...I seriously can't find where Gav talked about the whole thing in detail. I thought it was one of his blog posts, but that one somehow died back in 2018 - and I could've sworn that I read more recent Q&As on there before. Oh well.

[skylerboodie]

My understanding was that the Rise of the Ynnari series was cancelled due to insufficient sales (no doubt not helped by lack of development of Ynnari in 40K storyline, lack of decent Black Library backing/promotion as always, and the can't-be-ignored Gav Thorpe factor that does put some readers off due to back catalogue disappointments*).

 

Gav had previously said that the Phoenix Lords series wasn't dead, but that a different writer would be writing the next entry. No name was mentioned and that was a few years ago now though, so appears to no longer be the case. If they'd wanted to continue with it, you'd think they'd have done a tie in with the new Maugan Ra release.

 

* I've actually heard that his Eldar work is supposedly some of his best as he 'gets' how to write them, and his Dark Angels work also appears respected. Personally I've only experienced his Horus Heresy related work myself, which has - for me - put him in the lower tier of writers as found his writing to be very much 'this happened, then this, then obviously this, end of book' (Deliverance Lost was the low point for me); but he has sometimes left me pleasantly surprised (the beauty of low expectations!), such as with Luther, and The First Wall not being quite as bad as I feared. Overall though, I just find his storytelling to be rather basic, and revealing all with no mystery in a mundane way is so anticlimactic. I actually didn't mind his Lorgar novella in spite of that, but explicitly laying out his entire origin from start to finish lessens the Primarchs' je ne sais qois, so to speak.

 

Still disappointed this series got cancelled though!

 

(Edit - Dark Chaplain beat me to it on some of these points!)

Edited March 23, 2022 by skylerboodie

[grailkeeper]

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

 

Interesting. Her first novel got huge marketing from BL. Way more than any other I can think of. The protagonist got a miniature- whilst many long established fan favourites never have. I was wondering why there was such an unusually big push for that one book in particular, especially by a first time author.

 

It was a pretty good book but the amount of advertising for it dwarfed other books. She hasn't been the most prolific since.

[Petitioner's City]

Andy Clark and Callum Davis are described as working directly for the GW Design team in their author bios. 

 

Nick Kyme is an editor at BL.

 

Rachel Harrison works for BL in an art production/sourcing logistical capacity.

 

Depending on how far back a publication date you're willing to include, Andy Hoare works for Forgeworld Design team.

 

Not sure about John French.

 

Linkedin is a big help here:

 

Andy Clark - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-clark-9861541a2?originalSubdomain=uk - "Lead Warhammer 40,000 Background Writer at Games Workshop Ltd"

 

Callum Davis - https://www.linkedin.com/in/callum-davis-99a2a8a7/ - Background writer at Games Workshop PLC - "Written dozens of campaign books, codexes, codex supplements, White Dwarf magazine articles and White Dwarf magazine fiction pieces."

 

Nick Kyme - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-kyme-05a62b4/

 

John French - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-french-creative/ - "Media Development Manager" and formerly Licencing Manager

 

Andy Hoare is now the/a forge world manager (overseeing Heresy, the Old World and Specialist Games) - I'm not sure if he also oversees MESBG, however, as he is never mentioned in that capacity and Rob Alderman has the role of Manager of that line (see https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-alderman-603838102/?originalSubdomain=uk)

 

For Rachel Harrison, you could ask her on Twitter - https://twitter.com/rharrisonwrites :) 

[Rob P]

The opening of Ghost Warrior is up there with 'I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor'.

 

Not sure why the hate.

[Master Ciaphas]

Hail!

 

Normally, I avoid everything with Gav Thorpes name on it; he has disappointed time and again. That said - I have actually read his three Path of the Eldar novels (borrowed them off a friend) - and I liked the them. 

 

Cheers!

[Moonreaper666]

Hail!

 

Normally, I avoid everything with Gav Thorpes name on it; he has disappointed time and again. That said - I have actually read his three Path of the Eldar novels (borrowed them off a friend) - and I liked the them.

 

Cheers!

What are your feelings on Luther?

[ChargingSoll]

I'm currently half way through luther and enjoying it, the layout is interesting as it's like each chapter is like a mini story and going through it shows the changes of the dark angels from just after the fall of caliban.

 

The book made me like luther as before I didn't care about him just the consequence of his actions.

Edited March 23, 2022 by ChargingSoll