The Crimson Fists and Company Markings Question

[Guest]

As its been stated for years the Crimson Fists were on the verge of destruction so the need for Company colours was mute...

 

But with the introduction of Primaris would they still use this practice?

[Valkyrion]

Yes, but they never used company colours, decimated or not. 

The only counter to this otherwise irreputable fact, cited by multiple official sources over the last 35 years, is that godawful Rynn's World novel which described Cortez as having green trims. 

 

So there is a black library (and therefore games workshop and therefore canon) precedent for putting company colours on your fists if you like, and no right minded individual would ever call you out on it, so trim up like it's Christmas, brother. 

[Brother Tyler]

The size of the Chapter was never a reason for not using the Codex Astartes practice of identifying company affiliation by displaying the company colors (i.e., the aftermath of the Battle for Rynn's World never made the need for company colors moot).

 

The reason (I think) is that the Crimson Fists weren't portrayed with any company affiliation displayed in the vast majority of their representations, dating back to the Rogue Trader era.

 

(top right corner)

 

 

Even when the concepts of the Codex Astartes were solidified in late 1st edition and into 2nd edition, the Crimson Fists continued to be shown without company markings, most notably in the 3rd edition version of Codex: Space Marines.

 

 

When Insignium Astartes was published during the 3rd edition of the game, it repeated the notion that [at one time] the Crimson Fists didn't display company affiliation. There are two important considerations to keep in mind from Insignium Astartes, however. First, the pictures and descriptions of various Codex Chapters and their livery are snapshots in time and are not necessarily immutable (an excellent example of this is the Raven Guard, who are shown in that book, but whose common livery is now understood to be different). Second, and most importantly, is the statement to the effect that leaders are encouraged to modify their livery over time in order to confuse the enemy. Keeping both of those in mind, there may have been times during the Crimson Fists' history when the Chapter (or a segment of the Chapter) did display company affiliation. The easy example here is the description of the Fourth Company bearing green armor pad rims during the Battle for Rynn's World, as described in the novel.

 

Most players don't include [the typical] company affiliation markings on their Crimson Fists, but there is sufficient freedom for players to include such markings, or variations thereof, if they desire.

[Guest]

I might be more subtle with it...

 

Not the trims as a whole but the odd marking just for variety.

[Pork Chop Express]

Yes, but they never used company colours, decimated or not. 

The only counter to this otherwise irreputable fact, cited by multiple official sources over the last 35 years, is that godawful Rynn's World novel which described Cortez as having green trims. 

 

So there is a black library (and therefore games workshop and therefore canon) precedent for putting company colours on your fists if you like, and no right minded individual would ever call you out on it, so trim up like it's Christmas, brother. 

 

You know, I'm with you. I needed to rationalize that in my head though: The chapter was gathered as one whole and perhaps used company colors for ceremonial, formal purposes. Pretty common thing to do in the military.

[Helias_Tancred]

I once owned around 6k of Crimson Fists back in 7th. Back then I did not apply any company markings. I always thought that was kinda a cool chapter trait. However if I did them again today, after the gift of the primaris and restocking of the chapter, I probably would use company marking as per the codex. If anything to signify a new era for the chapter? But thats just my .02, YMMV? :) and at the end of the day it's YOUR army. You could just as easily go the other way and explain it as keeping with tradition the primaris continuing chapter traditions that would help build bonds with first born.

[Brother Pablo]

As someone who is putting together Crimson Fists, this is a question that have to deal with, and at times I have been indecisive as to how I want to paint them.  In addition to the above, here is what I found over the years.  There was a picture in the 7th edition rulebook of a Crimson Fist in full battle armor on a left profile.  You don't see the trim of the shoulder guards painted, but you do see the knee pad painted in red.  I am not sure if it was captioned as a marine from the 3rd company.  Having said that, that way of showing your company markings is a legitimate way according to the Space Marine codex for a long time.  Bad news is that not everyone has a knee pad to paint.  That is the only place where I have ever saw a company marking for Crimson Fists.  

 

Secondly this goes to how many Crimson Fists are out there.  There is a mention in "Planetstrike"  which is was published just at the start of the 5th edition, the Crimson Fists were mentioned attacking a planet.  It was the 3rd company attacking, and one can reasonably assume that this was post Rynn's World, but I don't remember the date to compare.  Now the 3rd company can be the only company after the 1st company by itself to be functional according to this blurb, or this may be the Crimson Fists have at least three companies  functional by the action written in this supplement.  I am not sure, but I can see it either way, but I would not consider anything more than the 1st(crusader?), 2nd, and 3rd companies, along with some scouts.(Maybe half of a company of scouts?)  

 

Bottom line they are your models so whatever looks good to you works.  I use the knee pads, but I don't have anything under varnish just yet, so I may change to a trim on the shoulder guards.  Either way it is 3rd co for me regardless, because the breakup of blue with red does look good to me.  I also agree that the book is dreadful, and I would have done a better job writing fan fiction than that author.  

 

I also forgot this originally, but the 5th edition codex also had the 2nd company mentioned without any company markings so once again do what looks good to you.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Brother Pablo

[lansalt]

As you guys say, the Rynn's World novel had so many problems (No battle at the farm? Come on!) that we could dismiss the mention of the 4th company using the codex green company trim colour. Or maybe say that there were so few CF survivors of the invasion that they became a single big company with no markings afterwards.

IIRC, the CF story in The Successors collection mention them all becoming the 1st company, with the other companies being primaris.

[Forté]

I wouldn't worry about it too much really. If you want to paint knees red, go for it. The only part that's really set is the left hand being red for most, and veterans having both hands red. Other than that, you could go full Codex and include company trim colour, or not.

 

It's a little frustrating that the original 40k cover boys don't even have transfers available. Especially as they've changed their markings to have a black backing.

 

Personally; I won't be doing company shoulder trim. But that's purely to reduce the painting.