tangoalphatwo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 So, the idea is that each of the legions have their loyalist and traitor counterpart. Imperial Fists have their Iron Warriors. Blood Angels their World Eaters. So I’m and so on. I don’t know what all of them are however. You guys know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Iron Hands and Wordbearers? Both are fanatical in furtherance of their creeds and both are almost entirely manned by absolute Cusses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 It doesn't really track 100% Blood Angels and World Eaters Blood Angels and Emperor's Children Ultramarines and Word Bearers Ultramarines and Sons of Horus Raven Guard and Alpha Legion Raven Guard and Night Lords Salamanders and Death Guard Iron Hands and Death Guard Salamanders and Iron Warriors Iron Hands and Iron Warriors Could all lay claim to being the light and dark side of the same coin. Iron Father Ferrum and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARMASTER_ Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 While every legion had their specialties some to a greater degree than others, not all have a opposite number Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Yeah I think some have opposite numbers and/or particular grudges against opposite legions but it’s not universal. Each Legion generally embodies a certain aspect of war so it’s natural that some of them work as opposites (siege craft versus fortification for example) but not all of those aspects has a counterpoint. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Grudges/Rivalry/Outright Hatred but not always reciprocated. Word Bearers vs Ultramarines (traitor heavy) Dark Angels vs Night Lords (?) Imperial Fists vs Iron Warriors (traitor heavy) Space Wolves vs Thousand Sons (loyalist heavy) White Scars vs Death Guard (loyalist heavy) Iron Hands vs Emperor's Children (loyalist heavy) I don't think Salamanders, Raven Guard, World Eaters, Blood Angels, Sons of Horus or Alpha Legion particularly had any overt rival. I think Corax hated Curze, and Vulkan certainly had cause to hate Curze but not sure if he actually did. Lorgar is pretty much universally reviled even by his own, Sanguinius pretty much universally loved even by his enemies. N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Blood Angels have Black Legion as their rival faction, at least in the 8th ed rules. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Emperor’s Children - Space Wolves World Eaters - Salamanders Iron Warriors - Ravenguard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Blood Angels have Black Legion as their rival faction, at least in the 8th ed rules. Yeah, but I dont believe that animosity was during the HH, until the literal very end. I'd go with. Night Lords vs Raven Guard Ultramarines vs Word Bearers Dark Angels vs Alpha Legion Wolves vs Thousand Sons Imperial Fists vs Iron Warriors Scars vs Death Guard Iron Hands vs Emperors Children Angels vs World Eaters Salamanders vs Sons of Horus (???) Admittedly, its not a great process, and doesnt track well if we are being honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaal Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Dark Angels' traitor counterpart is the part of their own Legion that became the Fallen. Aside from that they have equal hate for any Chaos force. Helias_Tancred and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 there is never a 100 percent match. But each legion / chapter have something from another "counterpart" for example: Black Templars have in common: - Word Bearers: because of the faith - World Eaters : because of their aggression, the devotion chains, honor in close combat (in earlier editons they had much more in common like BT were not allowed to field Devastors and Whirlwinds - Black Legion: First Captain abbdaddon and Sigismund are the true heirs of the Horus Heresy, both stand for the new age of Imperium. Both are crusaders in black. Raven Guard: - Alpha Legion ( stealthy warfare) - Night lords ( jump pack, claws,...) Imperial Fists: - Iron Warriors ( warfare, siege,...) - Emperors children (duelists, proud) Or was it more about who is their arch-enemy??? painting.for.my.sanity 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Emperor’s Children - Space Wolves World Eaters - Salamanders Iron Warriors - Ravenguard Not one of those makes any sense to me whatsoever. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) EC vs SW - check out the short story ‘In Wolves’ Clothing’. WE vs Sallies - Ivstann Drop Site Massacre. Iron Warriors vs RG - Battle of Gate 42. Edited March 26, 2022 by Black Blow Fly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Emperor’s Children - Space Wolves World Eaters - Salamanders Iron Warriors - Ravenguard Not one of those makes any sense to me whatsoever. I think he meant the exact opposite: WE ( Life has no matter when blood flowes vs life is the most important thing) Iron Warriors is open warfare, siege, directly.... vs stealth, ninjastyle.... but this is what I said before. Counterpart for what? I thought the same fighting style just on the other side .... ( Imperial Fists are loyal Iron Warriors; and so on) Or even just the rivalry in the lore.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Neither legion had any indication of being rivals or anything of the sort. Wolves and world eaters had more rivalry during the heresy. If it’s just because they both liked melee, the same is true of plenty of others. Blood angels didn’t have the anger management issues till after the heresy, they did have the thirst but that was not all that common and is very different anyway. Helias_Tancred and BLACK BLŒ FLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamiel Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Maybe because both are lead by angels? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Tenuous at best honestly BLACK BLΠFLY and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spessmarine Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Neither legion had any indication of being rivals or anything of the sort. Wolves and world eaters had more rivalry during the heresy. If it’s just because they both liked melee, the same is true of plenty of others. Blood angels didn’t have the anger management issues till after the heresy, they did have the thirst but that was not all that common and is very different anyway. Blood Rip and tear Relation with Khorne, Ka-Bandha etc Angel v Angel Not the most far-out comparison. Gamiel and Medjugorje 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Neither legion had any indication of being rivals or anything of the sort. Wolves and world eaters had more rivalry during the heresy. I think it goes back to the fact that they had almost identical rules in 3rd edition and some fans have looooong memories. Malcador mentions in one of the HH novels that there was a certain amount of redundancy in the Primarch project which is why certain specialisations or styles of warfare crop up more than once. Dracos and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaal Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Malcador mentions in one of the HH novels that there was a certain amount of redundancy in the Primarch project which is why certain specialisations or styles of warfare crop up more than once. Makes sense. Emperor hit perfection with the Lion on his first try, so after that it was just going through the motions because he already committed to making another 19. Gamiel, bigtrouble and Cactus 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Says the DA player…… phandaal and bigtrouble 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Neither legion had any indication of being rivals or anything of the sort. Wolves and world eaters had more rivalry during the heresy. If it’s just because they both liked melee, the same is true of plenty of others. Blood angels didn’t have the anger management issues till after the heresy, they did have the thirst but that was not all that common and is very different anyway. Honestly, I think it has more to do with Death Company and Khorne Berserkers being iconic units. They were the gold standard for loyalist and traitor close combat marines for a long time. They're basically a core part of their fraction's identity to a lot of us. That said I don't really think they are very many loyalist vs. traitor counterparts. The different legions just all overlap a bit too much to make clean pairs. GW has done a good job on that front. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Neither legion had any indication of being rivals or anything of the sort. Wolves and world eaters had more rivalry during the heresy. I think it goes back to the fact that they had almost identical rules in 3rd edition and some fans have looooong memories. Malcador mentions in one of the HH novels that there was a certain amount of redundancy in the Primarch project which is why certain specialisations or styles of warfare crop up more than once. I absolutely disagree. Black Templars were much closer to World eaters back then Marshal Mittens 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mittens Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I would agree that Black Templars have a lot in common with the World Eaters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) Why do blood angels keep getting lumped with world eaters? Neither legion had any indication of being rivals or anything of the sort. Wolves and world eaters had more rivalry during the heresy.I think it goes back to the fact that they had almost identical rules in 3rd edition and some fans have looooong memories. I absolutely disagree. Black Templars were much closer to World eaters back then Look at the 3rd ed codices. Blood Angels and World Eaters both had to roll a dice for each unit at the start of every turn. If they failed (or succeeeded depending on your point of view), they had to run towards the enemy. I don't think BTs had a similar rule. BAs and WEs also both had the sam rule for +1S on the charge IIRC. Again BTs did not get that. Edited March 28, 2022 by Karhedron BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373666-matching-loyal-and-traitor-legions/#findComment-5808829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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