Death Guard redux

[Relentless]

Death Guard 9.5

 

My intent writing this was not to make DG an S-tier army (though I'm not opposed to that outcome), but to be one that can make regular top-table appearances again and maybe win a GT now and then. To accomplish this I tried to stick within the confines of the datasheets and codex, work with what's provided rather than make new rules outright. So, for example, while I definitely think Plague Marines should have access to heavy weapons, and DG should have Masters of Posession, I did not add those rules. No, I have not tried out these changes on the tabletop, this was simply a fun theory session I decided to share. Please, pick it apart and offer your ideas. I only wrote down things I changed, if it doesn't appear below then it remains as is. Wishlist away my fellow rotting horde!

 

 

Secondaries

 

Spread the Sickness:

If an enemy unit is in range of obj, take d6 mortals instead of d3, that obj is now contaminated

 

Fleeing Vectors:

4pts

An opponent auto-passing morale with stratagem counts as "failing" for purposes of scoring this secondary

 

 

Plague Companies

 

All Bubonic Astartes infantry models gain the Plague company contagion

 

Mortarion's Anvil:

Gloaming Bloat shuts off hit re-rolls, not wounds (my attempt to balance so it's not just an auto take)

 

 

Infantry

 

All DG infantry models gain +1 armor save

All bolt weapons gain Virulent Rounds (-1ap and Plague weapon keyword)

 

Deadly Pathogens:

All Pathogens reduced by 5pts, except Viscous Death and Befouling Runoff

 

Characters:

All characters gain +1 wound

Characters without a melee weapon gain a Plague Knife

 

Mortarion:

450pts

 

Demon Prince:

140pts without wings

T7

All weapons gain Plague Weapon keyword

Gains option to be a psyker or not

 

Typhus:

150pts

+1 to psychic and deny tests

2 denies

 

Lord of Virulence:

115pts

 

Noxious Blightbringer:

Sickening Vitality also adds +1 to charges

Empyric Malaise aura 12in

 

Plague Surgeon:

90pts

Can bring 1 CORE infantry model back in command phase with d3 wounds remaining

 

Plague Marines:

20ppm

Leadership 9 and 8

Flail gets spillover damage back

Cleaver changed to flat 3 damage

Power fist gains Plague Weapon

All wargear cost reduced by 50% (rounding up), excluding flail and cleaver

Can double up on wargear with squad size of 7 or more instead of only 10man

 

Blightlord Terminators:

38ppm

Flail +5pts

Flail gets spillover damage

 

Deathshroud:

Unit size 3

Gains obsec (each model counts as 2)

+3in to contagion range

 

 

Vehicles

 

All DG vehicles gain Bubonic Astartes (Disgusting Resilience and Inexorable Advance)

 

Helbrute:

T8

2+ armor save

Helbrute fist gains Plague Weapon

 

Myphitic Blight-Haulers:

CORE

 

Foetid Bloat-Drone:

130pts with fleshmower

Unit size 1-2

CORE

 

Plagueburst Crawler:

175pts with entropy cannons

Gains Smokescreen and DG Machine Spirit

 

Land Raider:

240pts

Troops can disembark after movement but cannot charge

 

Predator:

Both varients -20pts

 

 

Stratagems

 

Haze of Corruption:

DELETE

 

Eternal Hatred:

Renamed to Veterans of the Long War

 

Release Toxins:

1cp

 

Blight Bombardment:

1/2cp

 

Cloud of Flies:

2-3cp (nothing should ever cost more than 3cp)

 

Flash Outbreak:

1cp

 

Virulent Rounds:

DELETE

 

Disgusting Force:

Don't roll a d6, every unit (excluding Nurgle) within 3in takes 1 MW

 

 

Psyker Powers

 

Gift of Contagion:

Secondary effect kicks in on 7+

 

Putrescent Vitality:

Warp charge 6

 

Gift of Plagues:

Warp charge 5

[Xenith]

Don't play DG so can't say how too much of it will affect the army, though a couple of things are too strong/broken.

 

Plague surgeon - marine apoc brings one model back/turn for 90pts+1CP or 125pts+0CP. I'd increase to 125pts and make it full wounds rather than D3. 

 

Dreadnought is now buffed 4x. T8 is fair, everuthing else has higher T. 2+ save is maybe much. It now has 2x abilities that reduce damage. It'll be one of the toughest units in the game as you write it. Maybe just boost to T8, and say DR doesnt stack with the other damage reduction ability. Otherwise, just adding BUBONIC ASTARTES is probably really good for it. -2 dmage is strong. 

[Relentless]

You're right about the Surgeon, a chief apothecary is 115pts and needs a WLT to bring someone back. I thought I'd just build it into the Surgeon rather than make up a WLT or stratagem. Maybe bump him up to 105 with a restriction of 1 in an army? Keep the d3 wounds remaining and can only heal 1 model, just to balance out?

 

Disgusting Resilience does not stack, so a Helbrute (which already has Bubonic Astartes) is still just -1 damage. As far as the T8 and 2+ I was thinking how to make up for a lack of invuln that Tsons get. It basically makes it an Ironclad dread, which are rarely fielded, so I don't think it would be very OP, just be a little more survivable.

[Closet Skeleton]

I don't know why 2+ armour save isn't standard on all dreadnoughts when Terminator Armour is actually called Tactical Dreadnought Armour (officially Terminators is a unit designation not an armour type).

 

Plague Marines do have access to a heavy weapon, which is already more than they used in the classic fluff.

 

Any codex where Blight Lords cost less than 2 Plague Marines with an invulnerable save, better melee weapon and the same firepower is going to have Plague Marines as useless and redundant.

 

Making Bloat Drones core is never going to help balance Helbrutes.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Closet Skeleton

[McElMcNinja]

After playing against Nids today and them either having a 5+++ or -1 damage and in some cases both, we are definitely not as “durable” as other armies. It seems like every other army gets what was our thing. Then the only way to get real fire power is using FW stuff, we really are not in a good spot. Not to be a Debbie downer, but we need a lot to make us competitive in todays meta and while these suggestions are good, it’s not going to happen.

[Marshal Mittens]

It is odd that they took 5+++ from death guard, but gave lots of other armies 5+++ or ways to get it.

[Plaguecaster]

Don't remove haze of corruption that's a stupid idea, it's far better because now because other stuff like dreads can benefit from it as well, Contemptors with chainfists can mow through entire squads with it

 

Id be happy if every vehicle in codex could swap their weapons for th3 actual plague weapons

Heavy bolters for geavy blight cannons, lascannons from entropy cannons, heavy flamer for plaguespitters etc, actually giving more of the older units stuff to make them feel like actual DG units

 

Surgeon yes should be able to bring back slain models it's stupid they can't when loyalists can. Maybe a stratagem as that let's you upgrade any of the characters in the elite section to take them as an hq choice making them a better version.

[Closet Skeleton]

It is odd that they took 5+++ from death guard, but gave lots of other armies 5+++ or ways to get it.

 

No one has army wide 5+ FNP unless its restricted to mortal wounds.

 

If you count Nurgle Daemons as 1/4 of a Codex the only army wide FNP is Iron Hands and Hive Fleet Leviathan (who are about to lose it) at 6+. Ulthwé just lost their army wide 6+. Dark Eldar lost army wide 6+ in exchange for an invulnerable save a while ago but like Daemons still have a 5+ on a unit subgroup. Genestealer Cults can hand out 5+ but also lost their only unit that had it native.

 

5+ FNP is widely available and powerful but generally only on a limited number of units. They could have changed Putrescant Vitality into a Catalyst equivilant instead of the dubious use power it is right now but then some other book would come out with a +1 S +1T power and people would moan about that having once been 'our thing'.

 

After playing against Nids today and them either having a 5+++ or -1 damage and in some cases both, we are definitely not as “durable” as other armies. It seems like every other army gets what was our thing. Then the only way to get real fire power is using FW stuff, we really are not in a good spot. Not to be a Debbie downer, but we need a lot to make us competitive in todays meta and while these suggestions are good, it’s not going to happen.

 

I've only played against Crusher Stampede with Deathguard once but I almost tabled him while getting completely crushed on points (only game I lost at a 1 day tournament, he won the event). If he hadn't got some insane luck with the native 4+ invulnerable on his Hive Tyrant and had managed to deny Catalyst on his Hierodule a turn earlier I probably would have tabled him. Other games were against Tau where I just outshot his obsec and he failed to control the board because he was a beginner so I was far ahead on points despite being close to being tabled by turn 4 when the round ended. Last game against another beginner player with Space Wolves I completely crushed him.

 

Crusher Stampede can have a 5+ and -1 damage but so can Mortarion or a Daemon Prince. Its also probably not going to be around long term and the proper 9th ed Tyranids only get -1 damage on their dreadnought equivilant and 1 turn worth of army wide invulnerable save.

 

So I basically did fine with my old 8th Ed Deathguard army (Mortarion, 2 rhinos, 2 5 man blightlords, 3 7 man plague marines) at a casual event. If I had a regular gaming group where I replayed the same battles every week I'm sure I would fall behind but DG seemed fine in casual play. I performed better with them than with my own Crusher stampede I took to my next 1 day event.

 

Until you run into massed plasma Plague Marines are still cutting through their direct competitors in other marine books. Only Rubrics with the invulnerable save are really competing with them among marine troops.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Closet Skeleton

[Bulwyf]

After playing against Nids today and them either having a 5+++ or -1 damage and in some cases both, we are definitely not as “durable” as other armies. It seems like every other army gets what was our thing. Then the only way to get real fire power is using FW stuff, we really are not in a good spot. Not to be a Debbie downer, but we need a lot to make us competitive in todays meta and while these suggestions are good, it’s not going to happen.

 

Giving away our "unique" rules to multiple armies while they still get their OWN stuff is terrible game balance. We still are the slowest army by far in the game. We still have very poor shooting as a faction with overpriced units. 

 

We need a new codex. All weapons for all models in our army should be considered plague weapons. Bolters for all SM units should be -1 AP. I can keep going on but these are just some basics that we need.