How to throttle down the rules bloat and cheese in your game

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

Since we're toying with the Stratagem hand idea and there seems to be a general consensus on the one use per game aspect, how about (to keep things as similar to vanilla 9th as possible) you purchase your Stratagems pre-game using CP? Effectively operating like the Stratagem/Warlord trait purchases, you buy the Stratagem for its CP cost and use it as needed. Strats with various costs are only applicable to the price paid. Would mean it's not tied strictly to the list, allowing for the tactical flexibilty they're meant to give as well as establishing hard limits to the amount you can take tied to game size.

 

Any CP not spent on pre-game strats or generated afterwards can only be used for the rulebook/mission stratagems (command reroll etc.) for extra flexibility that doesn't require knowing the strats for every faction to know what the shenanigans they can pull outside of their pre-selected hand of strats.

Genius! I really like your idea!

Agreed. It's a good way to fix things.

[Valkyrion]

Since we're toying with the Stratagem hand idea and there seems to be a general consensus on the one use per game aspect, how about (to keep things as similar to vanilla 9th as possible) you purchase your Stratagems pre-game using CP? Effectively operating like the Stratagem/Warlord trait purchases, you buy the Stratagem for its CP cost and use it as needed. Strats with various costs are only applicable to the price paid. Would mean it's not tied strictly to the list, allowing for the tactical flexibilty they're meant to give as well as establishing hard limits to the amount you can take tied to game size. 

 

Any CP not spent on pre-game strats or generated afterwards can only be used for the rulebook/mission stratagems (command reroll etc.) for extra flexibility that doesn't require knowing the strats for every faction to know what the shenanigans they can pull outside of their pre-selected hand of strats. 

 

This, but I'd extend it so that you can use any Core rulebook stratagems in lieu of your existing stratagems for the appropriate CP cost. That way you can still get value from a redundant strat (e.g all your vehicles are dead) without having to worry about buying 4 overwatch, or 3 reroll strats. 

 

In short, your 12 CP are to be spent on your faction strats, with the option to discard one in favour of a core strat on a like for like basis when you so desire. 

[Jings]

 

Since we're toying with the Stratagem hand idea and there seems to be a general consensus on the one use per game aspect, how about (to keep things as similar to vanilla 9th as possible) you purchase your Stratagems pre-game using CP? Effectively operating like the Stratagem/Warlord trait purchases, you buy the Stratagem for its CP cost and use it as needed. Strats with various costs are only applicable to the price paid. Would mean it's not tied strictly to the list, allowing for the tactical flexibilty they're meant to give as well as establishing hard limits to the amount you can take tied to game size. 

 

Any CP not spent on pre-game strats or generated afterwards can only be used for the rulebook/mission stratagems (command reroll etc.) for extra flexibility that doesn't require knowing the strats for every faction to know what the shenanigans they can pull outside of their pre-selected hand of strats. 

 

This, but I'd extend it so that you can use any Core rulebook stratagems in lieu of your existing stratagems for the appropriate CP cost. That way you can still get value from a redundant strat (e.g all your vehicles are dead) without having to worry about buying 4 overwatch, or 3 reroll strats. 

 

In short, your 12 CP are to be spent on your faction strats, with the option to discard one in favour of a core strat on a like for like basis when you so desire. 

 

 

I think there's a couple ways to handle core/mission strats, though my preference is leaving them as wildcards that you can use (multiple times if you want) with any CP you don't spend on your "hand" simply because everyone has access to them and they're not too OP to be limited to a single use. 

 

Added bonus to that approach is, in keeping with changing as little as possible of the core 9th gameplay as possible, not needing to buy those core strats keeps the +1 CP during the Command Phase and Warlord Traits/unit abilities/Strategems that increase your CP throughout the game relevant. 

 

Running the risk of strats becoming redundant should be part of the gamble. Running a lot of specific strats with only a couple relevant units in your list? Probably not the wisest play. Encourages bringing situational strats that can be used by a wide range of units which would limit cheese. 

 

I think that to balance that though, your stratagem hand should be kept hidden to avoid first turn priority targetting. 

[ThePenitentOne]

Does everyone in this thread realize that if you just play Open:

 

All but BRB strats go away

All secondaries go away

All detachment rules go away

 

It seems like GW has already done the work for you, but since the only think anyone ever pays attention to is the 1/3 of the game that is matched play, you'd never know it.

 

Now as written, Open doesn't include points or PL, but you could use either and still play open if you want to- just don't battleforge, otherwise codex strats and detachment abilities come back.

 

Problem solved?

[Helias_Tancred]

Does everyone in this thread realize that if you just play Open:

 

All but BRB strats go away

All secondaries go away

All detachment rules go away

 

It seems like GW has already done the work for you, but since the only think anyone ever pays attention to is the 1/3 of the game that is matched play, you'd never know it.

 

Now as written, Open doesn't include points or PL, but you could use either and still play open if you want to- just don't battleforge, otherwise codex strats and detachment abilities come back.

 

Problem solved?

 

On paper thats true. But irl and in practice no. My group is all matched play, they've never suggested playing another format. I don't think they want to go that route. Call it the comfortable factor, doing what is known, or having a standard for playing 40k and open gaming is not it.

[ThePenitentOne]

Right. So that's why we're in a thread about house rules to cut back on on strats, detachment rules and secondaries?

 

Because your group will accept houserules that do those things rather than just playing the 100% official format that does the exact same thing?

[Helias_Tancred]

Your point is taken. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Helias Tancred