Current BA Meta?

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Bonzi said:

Some sleeper units that I think have potential in BA.  Las Fusils Eliminators have the trifecta like Sang Guard.  They got a big points cut, have a 1+ in cover, and can hold backline objectives while still doing work vs heavy infantry and light vehicles and monsters.  Infiltrate is the cherry on top of this tasty flexible unit. 

I agree, I am somewhat regretting building mine with sniper rifles now. I still have the Las Fusil arms, I wonder how easy it would be to convert the Shadowspear eliminators?

[Blindhamster]

The issue I have with the winning lists is their reliance on sanguinary guard, when you see so many lists use them, you know they're going to get hit with a nerf at some point, its totally true that they probably were the unit to get the most from AoC of every unit that got it, they were already a pretty much mandatory pick for BA and were regularly seen in lists, now its almost guaranteed you'll see as many of them as can be fit into lists.

DC seem to have done alright from the new updates, points drops helps, DC intercessors costing the same as regular ones now makes them sort of an interesting choice, they have a lot of attacks and are a bit more tanky between fnp and AoC, not having Obsec is of course a big issue with them, but also totally logical.

It's nice to see Dante seeing more use, still don't think he's necessarily "good" or more precisely, he doesn't really live up to the character portrayed in all his media.

 

I'm lucky enough to have both kinds of eliminators, I always liked the las fusil models so nice to see them become probably a good choice.

[Tokugawa]

Glue a plastic tube outside of sniper rifle silencer, cut a slope, and paint it in gold. Then you got a portable lascannon! 

[Cleon]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I agree, I am somewhat regretting building mine with sniper rifles now. I still have the Las Fusil arms, I wonder how easy it would be to convert the Shadowspear eliminators?

Personally I wouldn't start there unless you already had the shadowspear guys going spare, I think it'd be easier to convert normal multi part phobos bodies to take the fusils, I used Infiltrator bodies to take the spare rifle arms when I was creating a spectrus team for my deathwatch and while I didn't want cloaks, I imagine adding cloaks would be easier than trying to salvage the shadowspear ones.

 

[Jolemai]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:56 PM, Jolemai said:

It's going to be interesting to see how the BA meta shifts over the coming weeks now Nephilim is out in the open. As it stands, some folks are trying to capitalise on the DC secondary and running multiple DC units, others are focusing on maximizing secondaries like Relentless, Assassination, and Behind Enemy Lines. Seems like the LSS and Whirlwind are currently out of favour too. 

Couple of months later and it seems Flying Circles are still a thing, but RAS are making a come back as people try to capitalise on RND. It's kinda:

• Dante/Astorath (for Blade)
• DC Character (Angels Sacrifice/FotL)
• Sanguinary Priest (objective flip/selfless healer)
• 2 x SG
• 2 x DC
• 1 x VAS
• 1/2 x RAS
• 3 x Troops
• 1 x something ranged

Blade/RND/DFA/FotL/Abhor seem popular secondaries that folk are building for too.

[Karhedron]

I agree, flying Circus is still where it's at. I even give my ranged support jump packs in the form of Plasma Inceptors.

I am not convinced VAS have much of a place anymore. DC get more attacks, as do SG. SG are more (or equally) durable than VAS with Storm Shields against anything up to Ap-3. Only against AP-4 do VAS with Storm Shields pull ahead thanks to AoC. Also the existence of AoC diminishes the value of the VAS favourite Lightning Claw (although the meta apparently does consist of more than just Marines ).

[Jolemai]

Maybe it's just people's collections then, but we're still seeing a single squad knocking around. Perhaps they are being used for a different role now?

[Karhedron]

12 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

Maybe it's just people's collections then, but we're still seeing a single squad knocking around. Perhaps they are being used for a different role now?

Oh I am sure they still have their uses. Sorry, the comment on VAS was my personal take on them rather than a broader consensus. 

[The Unseen]

The VV are there mostly because you can't run more than 3 squads of SG and/or they only have so many models. In my case, even with lightning claws, they're cheaper than SG, and make good *bait* squads, something you send out to hit something that you know is going to be traded into after, but you have SG waiting to counter counter charge, if that makes sense. I've seen a lot with 21 SG and then 1 squad of VV, since you don't really want more than 7 SG in a single squad, they already kill almost anything on the charge with just 7, but you can't take more than 3 squads. So VV are the 2nd most efficient jump pack murder squad, they get in 1 squad.

Layering threats, and you don't want to use SG as the first layer because then they can't trade up. And you still take claws because its the most pt efficient power weapon by far, even into AoC in Assault Doctrine it still puts marines to a 5+. And its got an extra attack AND reroll wounds, for less than a power sword. Against specifically 2+ armor SG pull ahead, but you already have 2 or 3 squads that are rocking AP-4 in assault doctrine.

I could see the argument of dropping them for more DC and leaning into FoTL though. I tend to run 2 squads of DC and that definitely isn't enough, you'd want at least a DC character and probably 3 squads to reliably score that secondary, but I tend to do that since I only own enough SG for 2 squads, and I refuse to buy more because I know that list won't survive forever. But I like having the 2nd squad to have the option of pregame disruption if I want to save the hammer squad for later, 5 DC charging just with chainswords can do some damage against troop units, and move blocking with them on turn 1 can be pretty mean if the opponents units don't have fly. Skorpekhs as an example do NOT like having to move around 5 DC strung out at max coherency 1.1" away from them. They can make up some of the distance with smart charge moves and consolidation, but its still a lot less than their normal move+advance, which is min 11" I think, and averages 14.

[Majkhel]

Would you still take Storm Shields on VanVets or switch to chainswords for decreased cost and extra attacks? Or a mix of both?

[Jolemai]

Latest balance datasheet is out:

 

Balance Dataslate - Q3 2022 - 20/10/2022 - + NEWS, RUMORS, AND BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS + - The Bolter and Chainsword

 

Think it will change much of what we do?

[INKS]

Sadly I don't think so. Were you taking this much before? Maybe you take it now if there are 5 or more objectives... 

I have a fun video for you on secondaries for BA

 

[The Unseen]

I think it being in the same slot as Relentless Assault means on boards with lots of objectives and small deployment zones against armies you know are going to push forward and trade with you, Shock Assault is now about as good as Relentless. Its gonna be a consistent 8-12, and 15 isn't impossible. Also nice that you don't necessarily have to plan on throwing yourself to the other side of the table every turn. But it doesn't make a huge difference. The Dataslate was a huge letdown for marines in general, so BA are still the best of a bad bunch.

[Jolemai]

Couple of BA lists won on the weekend. 

• Dante, Priest, Lemartes, SGA, 3x SG, 3x DC, 1x Incursors, 1x Whirlwind, 1x Eliminators. 1x RAS
• Dante, Librarian, Priest, 1x Assault Intercessors, 2x Infiltrators, 3x SG, 1x DC, 2x Eliminators, 1x CVs, 1x Assault Centurions

Seems most have settled into a theme for now.

 

[Karhedron]

I hope that this does not mean Sanguinary Guard are going to be nerfed. 

[Spagunk]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

I hope that this does not mean Sanguinary Guard are going to be nerfed. 

Something something hope. :p

You know in your heart they're going to nerf them. BA can't have nice things.

[The Unseen]

They'll probably get a price increase in the next Chapter Approved. GW has already once this edition smacked units marines are spamming for (mild) success when they hit dreads, and especially volkite contemptors, despite Marines at the time at ~50% winrate and falling. We are now the only loyalist marine subfaction to win anything, and its on the back of SG and Death Company. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

After Zerek's win this past weekend I'm sure firmly locked the idea that were "Fine" as a faction right now, despite the overall average wr barely scraping into the 45% range, and every other loyalist marine faction being even worse. Votaan and the new Guard dex are going to really punch down into marines I think, between the quality of their massed firepower and the fact that marines basically have 0 effective ways to deal with T9 tanks across the table. Even a fully buffed up squad of Hammer DC (reroll hits, assault doctrine) won't kill the new Guard tank (and you won't get a turn 1 charge unless the opponent is very bad) or a Land Fortress on rate, lascannons are trash AND expensive, and Melta is short ranged and wounding on 5s.

[Maggotlord]

On 11/5/2022 at 5:21 AM, The Unseen said:

 The fact that marines basically have 0 effective ways to deal with T9 tanks across the table. Even a fully buffed up squad of Hammer DC (reroll hits, assault doctrine) won't kill the new Guard tank (and you won't get a turn 1 charge unless the opponent is very bad) or a Land Fortress on rate, lascannons are trash AND expensive, and Melta is short ranged and wounding on 5s.

 

Mmhh, who does then? 

[Karhedron]

Dreadnoughts can still do a number on T9 tanks in melee if they can get there as they will be wounding on 3s (2s with RT) and things like Blood Talons give rerolls to Wound.

 

Of course getting them there is going to be tricky. Libby Dread with Wings maybe?

[Karhedron]

On 11/5/2022 at 4:21 AM, The Unseen said:

Votaan and the new Guard dex are going to really punch down into marines I think, between the quality of their massed firepower and the fact that marines basically have 0 effective ways to deal with T9 tanks across the table. 

 

Vindicators are another unit worth considering as they get D6 S10 shots. Take the Siege Shield and the 2+ save combos nicely with AoC. The Vindicator will hopefully go to Heavy 3+D3 in our new codex (like the Chaos version) as well as getting an extra point of AP which will make it a lot more reliable in an anti-tank role.

[Karhedron]

The Gladiator Lancer and Repulsor Executioner also have guns that can wound T9 on a 3+. They are not very meta-relevant at the moment but if T9-spam starts to become a thing we may have to reconsider them.

[Galron]

Leviathan with melta lances and a Vindicator. Granted I play off brand blood angels with no sang guard(Minotaurs) but these do fairly well for me and along with everything else provide a really heavy base of fire. I also run eradicators in the Asterion death star of cool stuff that uses the Navy CFP tactic of straight up the middle over and over. (I run my league armies with a single idea in mind, this one is straight up the middle, try and stop me, my last one was the unkillable terminators and no one killed the squad the entire league.)

[Jolemai]

Three lists made podiums over the weekend.

1. Casey-Glynn-2nd-Place-Grinning-Demon-Series-GT-2022-Blood-Angels.pdf (bloodofkittens.com)
2. Sam-Procopio-1st-Place-Grinning-Demon-Series-GT-2022-Blood-Angels.pdf (bloodofkittens.com)
3. Jake-Brunette-3rd-Place-Grinning-Demon-Series-GT-2022-Blood-Angels.pdf (bloodofkittens.com)

List one is a ABC (Always Be Charging) type list focusing on Fury of the Lost and Relentless Assault

List two is slightly less aggressive as it has the Troops to do Actions if needed, but is still focusing on Fury of the Lost and delivering a large amount of SG

List three is different again, possibly focusing on Oath of Moment with some action fun too

 

Each still rocks large multiple large blocks of SG, at least one five man DC and low CP (usually enough for Forlorn Fury and then whatever is required during the game). For example, if a Whirlwind is taken, it will require points for Suppression Fire. Lemartes *may* require points for Visions of Sanguinius and/or Angel's Sacrifice, and so on.

 

Basically, a lot of common stuff and then some bits which are seasoning the list to taste.

[Jolemai]

All change in a couple of weeks, but a BA list finished 3/32 over the weekend.

• 1CP list
• Dante (HB), Priest (objflip), Ancient (Wraith/SW)
• 2x Infiltrators, 1x Ass Intercessors
• 1x RAS, Eliminators (QB), Cent Assault Sqaud
• 3x SG, 1x DC

CP for the DC at the start, lots of re-rolls, lots of forward ObjSec, QB shenanigans if necessary, Cents for the centre if need be, etc.

[Jolemai]

Tend to get most of the info from Blood of Kittens and a few other places. Last weekend saw an "ABC" type list with Aggressors for centre ground and Scouts/LSS for RA/BEL take a tournament win (this chap has used similar before)

 

Arks of Omens Spreading Its Wings: Warhammer 40k Tournament Results - The Blood of Kittens Network

 

For the most part though, BA have been slow getting out of the blocks switching back to pre-Nephilim style lists (if you believe other online sources). Also, it should be noted that Hail of Doom Eldar are back with a vengeance...