Charging, Intervention and Ongoing combat clarification

[Valkyrion]

Tyranid players turn, Charge phase.

 

Space Marine Terminators already engaged with Raveners are charged by a Carnifex and a space marine captain heroically intervenes.

 

In the fight phase the Carnifex goes first and it may direct some, any or all attacks against either the Terminators or the captain, yes? The terminators because they were the target, the Captain because it intervened.

Then, assuming it's the only charge and fight, after the carnifex goes, which one happens;

 

the captain goes next because it heroically intervened, then the terminators because it's the tyranids turn, then the raveners.

 

or

 

the marine player chooses either the captain or the terminators, then the raveners, then the other marine choice

 

 

I think it's the second one, because I can't see anywhere that Heroic Intervention interrupts the fight phase, it's just an out of sequence movement. My captain will gain +1 A for shock assault, but isn't actually charging so has to follow the rules for unit activation on p228, but I've been wrong before so thought I'd check.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

The Captain is forced to strike last because he was targeted by Paroxysm earlier in the Tyranids turn, unless the Carnifex kills him and 2cp are paid for Only in Death Does Duty End in which case he attacks completely out of sequence before the Carnifex's attacks are fully resolved by removing him from the table. Then the Terminators strike after the Carnifex because a Space Marine libriarian cast Veil of Time on them in the marine player's psychic phase, which is redundant and doesn't end up affecting anything making the Librarian ask why he bothered risking perils of the warp.

 

You're not missing anything, its the second.

 

Heroic intervention happens in the charge phase as part of a final step after all charges are declared and rolled, so it doesn't 'interupt' anything and its not 'out of sequence', it belongs in its own sequence in the turn order. In the core rules Heroic intervention indeed only affects who charging units can target but there is stuff outside of the core rules like shock assault. Characters that heroicly intervene aren't limited in who they attack, they moved in the charge phase but did not charge.

 

Since nothing about Heroic Intervention is a 'response' or an 'interupt' and every charge phase just has a Heroic Intervention step the opposing player can use, it is possible for a character to fail a 3" charge due to some penalty like difficult terrain on its controlling player's turn and then get into combat on the subsequent opposing player's turn. Or just wait 3" outside of a combat out of choice and then move in during the opponent's charge phase. Or be brought into heroic intervention range during a fight phase pile in the previous turn, or during the movement phase earlier this opponent's turn. Or for a unit to fall back under 3" and be brought back into combat by heroic intervention, since some abilities allow 6" heroic interventions that would make slow units like Orks, Deathguard or damaged vehicles incapable of escaping.

 

There's no such thing as an 'ongoing combat'. Its possible for a fight to start purely through heroic intervention, in which case if no fight first/last abilities are in play the heroic intervening character could fight first since its the opponent's turn.

 

Shock Assault triggering off Heroic Intervention is irrelevant to the fact that there are other ways of triggering Shock Assault, it not being a core rule its an exception to them and can't be used to infer anything. The only other place to look for this rules is the Rare Rules section (no idea on the page I only have the tournament pack rules) which does have a section on fight first/last stuff.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Closet Skeleton