Exemplary Battles - Breaking of the Perfect Fortress

[Chaeron]

Also confirmation that all EB rules are being updated to work in HH2E.

 

This is such good news: will be interesting to see how they work with the revised ruleset.

[Gederas]

So I forgot to say this when it was posted but:

 

...theyre red.

Disappointed in the colour scheme, just doesn't fit the Legion aesthetic imo.

And, iirc, no mention of them differing in colour from the rest of the Legion has ever been mentioned. (Leaving them grey eould have been cooler!)

Yeah I imagined the deliverers to look a lot of different ways but this is not one of them.

I'm happy to see more color scheme diversity within legion.  They're certainly a holdover from XIXth Legion days, and probably the Luna Wolves encouraged a little more flair than they normally would've.

Think the red armour just came as a surprise, and unfortunately, doesn't make them seem unique but instead imitations of the BA's or WB's termies.

The red might also stand for their shame i.e. Corax's shame. Weren't shamed units in the UM and NL painting their hands red/helmets red?

 

The Deliverers being red makes perfect sense when you remember GW just LOVES putting (sometimes not -so) subtle mythological references in their stuff.

 

The Heresy-era Raven Guard have a bit of a "tribal" theme, including some subtle Celtic themes.

 

Now, in Celtic Mythos, the colour associated with death was... Red. And the goddess most associated with death, The Morrígan, is associated with crows and ravens.

 

They're red because GW snuck a Celtic mythos reference in with them.

 

 

(there's also the whole "red right hand" thing like how the Pre-Mortarion Dusk Raiders had their right arm and shoulder painted blood red)

[Lautrec the Embraced]

So I forgot to say this when it was posted but:

 

...theyre red.

Disappointed in the colour scheme, just doesn't fit the Legion aesthetic imo.

 

And, iirc, no mention of them differing in colour from the rest of the Legion has ever been mentioned. (Leaving them grey eould have been cooler!)

Yeah I imagined the deliverers to look a lot of different ways but this is not one of them.

I'm happy to see more color scheme diversity within legion.  They're certainly a holdover from XIXth Legion days, and probably the Luna Wolves encouraged a little more flair than they normally would've.

Think the red armour just came as a surprise, and unfortunately, doesn't make them seem unique but instead imitations of the BA's or WB's termies.

The red might also stand for their shame i.e. Corax's shame. Weren't shamed units in the UM and NL painting their hands red/helmets red?

 

The Deliverers being red makes perfect sense when you remember GW just LOVES putting (sometimes not -so) subtle mythological references in their stuff.

 

The Heresy-era Raven Guard have a bit of a "tribal" theme, including some subtle Celtic themes.

 

Now, in Celtic Mythos, the colour associated with death was... Red. And the goddess most associated with death, The Morrígan, is associated with crows and ravens.

 

They're red because GW snuck a Celtic mythos reference in with them.

 

 

(there's also the whole "red right hand" thing like how the Pre-Mortarion Dusk Raiders had their right arm and shoulder painted blood red)

That's some cool trivia but overreaching a bit in my mind, maybe you've already spent more time justifying the colours than the designer has spent on picking them. Their paint scheme is anything but subtle, the tribal theme is non-existing - no feathers, skulls, weird signs, anything really (and their gauntlets are not painted red - that's good though, leave it for the VIIIth).

 

 

I get it, they are supposed to be Terran outcasts so can look different but still, they are very underwhelming in my opinion. To each his own, glad they are still doing EBs though.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Lautrec the Embraced

[Petitioner's City]

One really helpful thing about the red is that it makes it clear to your opponent they aren't a standard terminator squad :)

 

And red is a nice RG accent too - so nice to invert the scheme. It's a shame it followed directly on the Dark Sons of Death though, given Andy Hoare's scheme for them was very similar.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[Noserenda]

Didnt it already come out that their scheme is just Justaerin reversed? Nothing deeper than that.

[Petitioner's City]

Didnt it already come out that their scheme is just Justaerin reversed? Nothing deeper than that.

Unless it's stated by the painter (I presume not Hoare, since he doesn't do RG), that's nice supposition - but also perhaps our attempts to understand it?

 

I imagine that after Istvaan, anything that was a reflection of something so connected to Horus and the Sons would have been expunged by Corax - so there might be another in-world reason for the scheme, given the mention of red and black is post-massacre? But as a painterly our-world decision, it does make a nice symmetry!

[Darkwrath121]

 

Didnt it already come out that their scheme is just Justaerin reversed? Nothing deeper than that.

Unless it's stated by the painter (I presume not Hoare, since he doesn't do RG), that's nice supposition - but also perhaps our attempts to understand it?

 

I imagine that after Istvaan, anything that was a reflection of something so connected to Horus and the Sons would have been expunged by Corax - so there might be another in-world reason for the scheme, given the mention of red and black is post-massacre? But as a painterly our-world decision, it does make a nice symmetry!

Andy Hoare explains it on Instagram as "these particular ones wear it in memory of serving alongside the Justaerin before Corax joined the legion".

So it's not necessarily a blanket thing across all the deliverers, but it's presumably the main inspiration.

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

Didnt it already come out that their scheme is just Justaerin reversed? Nothing deeper than that.

Unless it's stated by the painter (I presume not Hoare, since he doesn't do RG), that's nice supposition - but also perhaps our attempts to understand it?

 

I imagine that after Istvaan, anything that was a reflection of something so connected to Horus and the Sons would have been expunged by Corax - so there might be another in-world reason for the scheme, given the mention of red and black is post-massacre? But as a painterly our-world decision, it does make a nice symmetry!

Andy Hoare explains it on Instagram as "these particular ones wear it in memory of serving alongside the Justaerin before Corax joined the legion".

So it's not necessarily a blanket thing across all the deliverers, but it's presumably the main inspiration.

Thanks :) Do you have a link to he post? That's not on his own profile, did he say it on another person's picture? Love collecting these tidbits!

[Darkwrath121]

 

 

 

Didnt it already come out that their scheme is just Justaerin reversed? Nothing deeper than that.

Unless it's stated by the painter (I presume not Hoare, since he doesn't do RG), that's nice supposition - but also perhaps our attempts to understand it?

 

I imagine that after Istvaan, anything that was a reflection of something so connected to Horus and the Sons would have been expunged by Corax - so there might be another in-world reason for the scheme, given the mention of red and black is post-massacre? But as a painterly our-world decision, it does make a nice symmetry!

Andy Hoare explains it on Instagram as "these particular ones wear it in memory of serving alongside the Justaerin before Corax joined the legion".

So it's not necessarily a blanket thing across all the deliverers, but it's presumably the main inspiration.

Thanks :) Do you have a link to he post? That's not on his own profile, did he say it on another person's picture? Love collecting these tidbits!

Oh, meant to link it, my bad! It was a response to a comment below this:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcQcavtqR89/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

As mentioned elsewhere, it's funny to see people ask him for a "source?" because they don't realise who it is!

[WrathOfTheLion]

As mentioned elsewhere, it's funny to see people ask him for a "source?" because they don't realise who it is!

 

Asking for a 'source' like that is usually a rhetorical tactic for dismissal, they have no intellectual honesty, so answering it or even paying attention to those asking for it is usually a complete waste of time.

[Darkwrath121]

 

 

As mentioned elsewhere, it's funny to see people ask him for a "source?" because they don't realise who it is!

 

Asking for a 'source' like that is usually a rhetorical tactic for dismissal, they have no intellectual honesty, so answering it or even paying attention to those asking for it is usually a complete waste of time.

Usually, yes. But not always

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I'd been trying to figure out what to do with the skull rack on the SoH Praetor from the upcoming boxset for a while, it didn't really suit any of the loyalist legions I run, but the Deliverers in this month's release gave me an idea for a Deliverer Centurion to add to my Raven Guard along with a squad of these Termies, & I wanted to see what they'd look like in a more conventional RG scheme so I did a quick mock-up of my idea:

[Marshal Mittens]

That looks awesome!

[The Scorpion]

Previously in the lore Deliverers were basically Carcardons with the tribal markings and dark grey armor and lore about being on the edge of known space? They were the Terran recruits from like the pacific islands iirc?

They still are. The color scheme of the Ashen Claws is quite reminescent of these Termies, down to the "dull red".

 

Are they still sons of Corax after having gorged on the geneseed of the Nostramo warbands? That's a tale for other stories.

[Ekim_Trub]

Could it be possible that there is different colour schemes for the different Deliverer units attached to different Companies/Chapters??

 

There is artwork in the Legions mobile game showing Deliverers in black tartaros armour, and it is hinted that there is different schemes/cultures evident in the various fleets of the XIXth/Raven Guard.

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

 

 

Didnt it already come out that their scheme is just Justaerin reversed? Nothing deeper than that.

Unless it's stated by the painter (I presume not Hoare, since he doesn't do RG), that's nice supposition - but also perhaps our attempts to understand it?

 

I imagine that after Istvaan, anything that was a reflection of something so connected to Horus and the Sons would have been expunged by Corax - so there might be another in-world reason for the scheme, given the mention of red and black is post-massacre? But as a painterly our-world decision, it does make a nice symmetry!

Andy Hoare explains it on Instagram as "these particular ones wear it in memory of serving alongside the Justaerin before Corax joined the legion".

So it's not necessarily a blanket thing across all the deliverers, but it's presumably the main inspiration.

Thanks :) Do you have a link to he post? That's not on his own profile, did he say it on another person's picture? Love collecting these tidbits!

Oh, meant to link it, my bad! It was a response to a comment below this:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcQcavtqR89/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

As mentioned elsewhere, it's funny to see people ask him for a "source?" because they don't realise who it is!

Thanks, excellent :)

 

Sadly a lot of heresy fans don't know who Andy is - I've found too many don't really care about the who's behind the game, beyond Bligh. Despite being a co-creator of many past books, people didn't really get how important he was in one group I am in. That's not unique to Heresy, but I find it mad not to care about who makes the worlds we enjoy!

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I'm gonna have 5 cataphractii left over from the new massive 30k boxed set so I decided to see what detailing them with stuff taken from the corvus cabal warcry models would do for some converted Deliverers:

[Ripper.McGuirl]

This is radddd

[Pearson73]

Oh yes, that's spot on!

[SkimaskMohawk]

The terminator photoshop looks great; the warcry stuff can make some very nice looking totemistic marines.

 

Unfortunately, the Raven guard didn't actually really have mass Raven skulls/feathers as paraphernalia in 30k (and it's debatable on how realistic it'd be in 40k). Kiavahr is a basically a forgeworld, with rad wastes where it isn't. Actual Ravens/birds being referenced in the lore only appear in George Mann's 40k novels, which have some glaring continuity problems.

Edited May 12, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

The terminator photoshop looks great; the warcry stuff can make some very nice looking totemistic marines.

 

Unfortunately, the Raven guard didn't actually really have mass Raven skulls/feathers as paraphernalia in 30k (and it's debatable on how realistic it'd be in 40k). Kiavahr is a basically a forgeworld, with rad wastes where it isn't. Actual Ravens/birds being referenced in the lore only appear in George Mann's 40k novels, which have some glaring continuity problems.

 

I mean, the Corax model literally has both feathers and a raven skull, and the corvid skull is a major component of the Legion's iconography (see veteran honour/ command below) so extending that to physical ornamentation doesn't seem like much of a leap - I'm not too bothered as to their physical source tbh, the legion will have fought on countless planets so may well have happened across appropriate species/ it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had bio-engineered corvids purpose grown

 

[Noserenda]

Plus it would be odd, that the native fauna would be radically different 10k years later. Not impossible, importing alien birds to fit the theme is totally 40k, but not very Ravenguard. :D 

[Mogsam]

The terminator photoshop looks great; the warcry stuff can make some very nice looking totemistic marines.

 

Unfortunately, the Raven guard didn't actually really have mass Raven skulls/feathers as paraphernalia in 30k (and it's debatable on how realistic it'd be in 40k). Kiavahr is a basically a forgeworld, with rad wastes where it isn't. Actual Ravens/birds being referenced in the lore only appear in George Mann's 40k novels, which have some glaring continuity problems.

Yet his model looks awesome and he should definitely do it.

[Dosjetka]

 

The terminator photoshop looks great; the warcry stuff can make some very nice looking totemistic marines.

 

Unfortunately, the Raven guard didn't actually really have mass Raven skulls/feathers as paraphernalia in 30k (and it's debatable on how realistic it'd be in 40k). Kiavahr is a basically a forgeworld, with rad wastes where it isn't. Actual Ravens/birds being referenced in the lore only appear in George Mann's 40k novels, which have some glaring continuity problems.

Yet his model looks awesome and he should definitely do it.

*they :)

 

Completely agree otherwise though: the fetishes and totems fit the Raven Guard theme quite well and I'd love to see actual models made that resemble those digital kitbashes.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

The terminator photoshop looks great; the warcry stuff can make some very nice looking totemistic marines.

 

Unfortunately, the Raven guard didn't actually really have mass Raven skulls/feathers as paraphernalia in 30k (and it's debatable on how realistic it'd be in 40k). Kiavahr is a basically a forgeworld, with rad wastes where it isn't. Actual Ravens/birds being referenced in the lore only appear in George Mann's 40k novels, which have some glaring continuity problems.

Yet his model looks awesome and he should definitely do it.

 

 

appreciate the sentiment but yeah my pronouns are They/Them as indicated in my Sig & under my icon, please edit your post - thanks!

Edited May 14, 2022 by Iron Hands Fanatic