Balance dataslate and DG

[Relentless]

Im still not convinced big blocks of BLTs is the way to go (competitively speaking).  With Nachmund you still need units doing actions, and Tau/Nids still have the firepower and mortal wound output to kill them without a ton of effort. I think the play is MSU blightlords and PMs, with 4 MBH (minimum), and a squad of deathshroud to steal an opponent's back obj in turn 2 or 3. Speaking of deathshroud, against power armor they got a huge nerf to their scythe profile, and I think their role is more about stealing minimally protected objectives from deepstrike, rather than a big bad bully unit, as well as being a vehicle for the Reaper of Glorious Entropy.  Against anyone not in power armor, scythe away as Nurgle intended.

[infyrana]

Great to see a bit of a buff come our way.  Is there a unit of the week thread for the Blightlord Terminiators - might be a great idea, I'd appreciate know how to maximise their potential - both the kit itself (model variations and magnetising) as well as in game given Obj Sec?

[Brother Kraskor]

 

 

Could rotten constitution ignore Ap-1,-2 and -3 now?

 

I have been trying to get to the bottom of this. I think RAW it's broken:

 

- AP-3 attack comes in, Rotten Constitution does not trigger, Armour of Contempt does trigger

- Attack is now AP-2, Rotten Constitution triggers and reduces to AP0

- Because another AP-ignoring rule has triggered, Armour of Contempt fails

- Back to AP-3 and the cycle continues

 

 

I believe that giving a character Rotten Constitution would trigger bullet point 3 of Armour of Contempt ie it does not apply to models under the effects of any ability that lowers or worsens AP of an attack.  Therefore if you give a character this WT it would loose Armour of Contempt.

 

It does make that Warlord Trait less effective.   Still Good on a Daemon Prince with a 3+ Save as AP-3+ puts him on his 5++, however if you give him the 2+ save relic then AP-3 matters.

 

 

I don't think it's that clear though. Contempt initially would apply because at AP-3 the model is not under the effect of any ability that lowers AP. Only once Contempt has triggered does Rotten trigger, which then cancels Contempt and we are back at square one. 

[Plague _Lord]

Great to see a bit of a buff come our way.  Is there a unit of the week thread for the Blightlord Terminiators - might be a great idea, I'd appreciate know how to maximise their potential - both the kit itself (model variations and magnetising) as well as in game given Obj Sec?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369709-unit-of-the-week-series-blightlord-terminators/ 

Here is the link to the unit of the week entry. Not much changed since then build-wise since the options are so limited hah. For me 2x reaper autocannon and 2x flail worked wonders in a single 10man block. Now they have extra durability combi meltas might be interesting, just for some extra AT punch up close. 

 

2x10 blightlords are interesting, but as said we still need some action monkeys in the form of cultists. Plague marines are more durable, that is true, but 100pts for an action monkey is just too much.

 

I don't rate MSU blightlords too highly - I've frequently lost half a squad in one enemy shooting round and you really need to maximise buff efficiency if you want them to do anything worthwhile in the shooting phase.

[KingYertle]

 

 

 

Could rotten constitution ignore Ap-1,-2 and -3 now?

 

I have been trying to get to the bottom of this. I think RAW it's broken:

 

- AP-3 attack comes in, Rotten Constitution does not trigger, Armour of Contempt does trigger

- Attack is now AP-2, Rotten Constitution triggers and reduces to AP0

- Because another AP-ignoring rule has triggered, Armour of Contempt fails

- Back to AP-3 and the cycle continues

 

 

I believe that giving a character Rotten Constitution would trigger bullet point 3 of Armour of Contempt ie it does not apply to models under the effects of any ability that lowers or worsens AP of an attack.  Therefore if you give a character this WT it would loose Armour of Contempt.

 

It does make that Warlord Trait less effective.   Still Good on a Daemon Prince with a 3+ Save as AP-3+ puts him on his 5++, however if you give him the 2+ save relic then AP-3 matters.

 

 

I don't think it's that clear though. Contempt initially would apply because at AP-3 the model is not under the effect of any ability that lowers AP. Only once Contempt has triggered does Rotten trigger, which then cancels Contempt and we are back at square one. 

 

 

I 100% agree the language used in the dataslate is not are clear as I would prefer and leaves room for interpretation.  In my opinion, the intent is that models cannot combine the new rule with any other rule that lowers AP.   So we shouldn't be able to combine the 2 rules to ignore AP-3.  For me, the key is that bullet point 3 specifically states the rule doesn't apply if the model has any other rule that lowers AP for "an attack" not "the attack" or "that attack".   But I agree it could be just a poor language decision on the part of the author.

 

Looks like the guys at Goonhammer agree that this interaction needs clarification:

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-armour-of-contempt/

[Brother Kraskor]

Yeah I totally agree that is how it should work. 

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Great to see a bit of a buff come our way. Is there a unit of the week thread for the Blightlord Terminiators - might be a great idea, I'd appreciate know how to maximise their potential - both the kit itself (model variations and magnetising) as well as in game given Obj Sec?

Might be worth a revisit of a number of the earlier units to take into account meta and faq changes

 

Did you want me to open a new Unit of the Week for updated unit reviews or just continue with the topic as is?

Edited April 16, 2022 by Wolf Lord Loki

[infyrana]

 

Great to see a bit of a buff come our way. Is there a unit of the week thread for the Blightlord Terminiators - might be a great idea, I'd appreciate know how to maximise their potential - both the kit itself (model variations and magnetising) as well as in game given Obj Sec?

Might be worth a revisit of a number of the earlier units to take into account meta and faq changes

 

Did you want me to open a new Unit of the Week for updated unit reviews or just continue with the topic as is?

 

 

Only if you feel that it's needed or worth the effort :)  Thank you for asking!

 

[Plaguecaster]

This update is amazing and actually makes me want to try out a land raider again.

Even with melta and other ap -4 it will still get a 5+ armour save thanks to this

[Plague _Lord]

This update is amazing and actually makes me want to try out a land raider again.

Even with melta and other ap -4 it will still get a 5+ armour save thanks to this

Be ready to cry when you roll those 1's for the lascannon damage :p

[Plaguecaster]

 

This update is amazing and actually makes me want to try out a land raider again.

Even with melta and other ap -4 it will still get a 5+ armour save thanks to this

Be ready to cry when you roll those 1's for the lascannon damage :p

Trust me I always do as I like to run a twin Las defiler sometimes it does well other times it's abysmal, but such is the way of chaos

[Plague _Lord]

Btw we had a GT win this weekend using the balance update rules. Maybe a bit lucky because our DG brother managed to avoid the worst matchups but of course congrats for going 5-0. He played against 2xworld eaters (hah), tau, custodes and Ulthwé eldar. His list was interesting - dp, grenade dude, tallyman, 10blightlords,4x5 plague marines, 2x3deathshroud,2xrhino,1x1spawn.

 

ThePMs had flails and cleavers and it looks like rhinos getting an armour save most of the times gives them the survivability to get units where they need to be. I still think plague marines are too expensive for big squads but the increased survivability from aoc seems to let us compete!

[angrom]

I am actually wondering if mass amount of plague marines 7-8 units with plasma and blight launcher is a viable option now close to a tallyman for exploding 6. Maybe with 10 terminators that will get all the buffs.

[Plague _Lord]

I am actually wondering if mass amount of plague marines 7-8 units with plasma and blight launcher is a viable option now close to a tallyman for exploding 6. Maybe with 10 terminators that will get all the buffs.

 

I don't think so sadly... regular plasma guns just fell out of the meta - most units in the game now get a 5+ save (marines, sisters from AOC, while nearly every xenos target you'd want to shoot with them will have an invul now). We still pay 10pts for a gun that now, doesn't exactly punch through armour and can still kill us if we want to do any significant damage. Don't forget this unit costs over 200pts and will do minimal damage throughout the game. I've had fun times with a full plasma/BL unit shooting with exploding sixes, +1 to hit and wound and rerolling 1's, but that was before codex creep. I just don't think our shooty squad will do much, even in a casual game.

 

TBH I still think barebones 5man squads are the way to go with plague marines, maybe with flails/clevers for better CC, but their role at the moment is sadly just action monkeys.

[TrawlingCleaner]

I had a 1.1k points game vs Tau at the weekend, lists were:

 

Opponent:

Fireblade

Etheral

 

2x10 Fire Warriors

10 Pathfinders, railgun and ion rilfe

10 Breachers

 

3 Stealth suits with 3 drones

 

3 Crisis suits with 6 drones, plasma rifle, missile launcher and fusion gun each with a fusion gun relic that ignores invulns

 

Hammerhead with Railgun

 

My list:

Lord of Contagion

Plaguecaster

 

2x 7 PM, Blight launcher, icon of despair and powerfist

1x 7 PM, Blight Launcher, icon of despair, powerfist and flail

 

Bloatdrone with Blight Launcher

 

Helbrute with twin las

 

Rhino with Havoc launcher

 

This was the first time playing DG with the 9th ed book, I've played Tau a good few times now though. Even Fire warriors put out a dumb about of fire and AP but I found that T5 with the reduce AP by 1, the PM shrugged off a lot of damage while walking up the board.

 

Blight Launchers are great into most Tau targets, the only thing to watch out for is if they're playing Bor'kan, they reduce incoming range fire's strength by 1 on suits and vehicles. Turn 1,2 and 3 the Hammerhead 1 shot my three vehicles after I had first turn, wounded the Hammerhead twice with the twinlas whch my opponent swiftly saved with 2 6s.

 

Armour of Contempt came up a lot when being hit by fusion guns, and gave my LoC a 5+save against the ignoring invulns Fusion relic on the Crisis suits

[Plague _Lord]

Played in 2 tournaments since the update and got 2 3'rd places. Both times I went terminator heavy - in the second I took 23 terminators. My lists were extremely hard to shift but have their limitations. All in all I think we are about mid power level and hard counter some armies, while others hard counter us but all in all we are quite a problem for some.

[Marshal Mittens]

Played in 2 tournaments since the update and got 2 3'rd places. Both times I went terminator heavy - in the second I took 23 terminators. My lists were extremely hard to shift but have their limitations. All in all I think we are about mid power level and hard counter some armies, while others hard counter us but all in all we are quite a problem for some.

I imagine armies that are mostly AP-1 and -2 do poorly, as do those that pay a premium for D2.

[Closet Skeleton]

Played in 2 tournaments since the update and got 2 3'rd places. Both times I went terminator heavy - in the second I took 23 terminators. My lists were extremely hard to shift but have their limitations. All in all I think we are about mid power level and hard counter some armies, while others hard counter us but all in all we are quite a problem for some.

Death Guard also came third at the Scottish tournament I played in yesturday behind Grey Knights and Tyranids. He was just running a very standard Mortarion's Anvil 3 PBC, 3 Volkite Contemptors, 2 units of 3 Deathshroud and then min sized Cultists and Poxwalkers for troops and the usual characters (Plaguecaster, Blightspawn, Daemon Prince). Only defeat was to the Eldar player who came 4th, defeated Sisters of Battle, Thousand Sons, Armiger Knight spam and a very meta Hive Fleet Leviathan list in the last round.

 

The other DG player came 17/35 with 3 wins. He was using Inexorable, 2 Decimators, 2 PBC and a 10 strong Blightlord block. Lost his last 2 games to the 7th place Salamanders and the 1st place Tyranid Player.

 

Same weekend there was another Scottish GT with 2 DG players who came 17th and 18th out of 34 with 3 wins. That one only had one Tyranid player and Harlequins came 2nd and 3rd with Grey Knights first.