Eliminators and the new balance data sheet.

[Marshal Mittens]

Now they are effectively 0+ save in cover, they will be SUPER hard to remove, for just 25ppm. And snipers just got better with the body guard changes. If you were not using them before, are these changes enough for you to start using them?

[Medjugorje]

they are close to an autotake in my opinion.

[TheNewman]

"Taking Eliminators" heck, I'm considering taking Raven Guard.

 

...wait, is that good enough to get a save against a Railgun?

Edited April 14, 2022 by TheNewman

[CaptainMarsh]

"Taking Eliminators" heck, I'm considering taking Raven Guard.

 

...wait, is that good enough to get a save against a Railgun?

 

Yes.

[BloodyB]

These guys have gotten better, but then so has an awful lot in the codex. Eliminators are going to be much better from now on, and I intend to play them to find out just how good they are.

[Dracos]

*peeking from the shadows*

 

pew pew

 

*whispers “Damn … where did all the bodyguards go?”*

 

Word is on the street anyone using bodyguards is now converting them to a regular unit choice. Which still rocks for Eliminators. Still they are competing against Devastators and Eradicators (who are now effectively 2+ or 1+ vs D1 weapons)

 

As a Raven Guard Successor I’ve been playing 2 Eradicator units and 1 Eliminator (lasfusil). That’s probably going to shift to 1 Eradicator and 2 Eliminator (sniper rifle) units

[Helias_Tancred]

I've got two squads of three each. I was using them before when playing HQ dependent foes. Looks like I'll still be using them, probably even more. :)

[Marshal Mittens]

I really like the bolt sniper, Lasfusils look cool, but in a world of eradicators, they are not the best. Really good for killing elite infantry with no invuls, but so are the bolt rifles.

 

It's only 225ptd for 3 units of bolt sniper guys, I wonder how many we will see. With 0+, they will be good for just holding back objectives and being annoying to shift, in addition to their shooting.

[Medjugorje]

I really like the bolt sniper, Lasfusils look cool, but in a world of eradicators, they are not the best. Really good for killing elite infantry with no invuls, but so are the bolt rifles.

 

It's only 225ptd for 3 units of bolt sniper guys, I wonder how many we will see. With 0+, they will be good for just holding back objectives and being annoying to shift, in addition to their shooting.

3x3 Eliminators and 2x5 Eradicators is not forbidden^^

[Tokugawa]

Since the unit size is capped 3-3, the max profit you can get from them(if any) is on 3*3, and they are competing heavy support slots with other units.

[Medjugorje]

Since the unit size is capped 3-3, the max profit you can get from them(if any) is on 3*3, and they are competing heavy support slots with other units.

only if you play just a single detachment. I think Eliminators are that good that its okay to add such a detachment into your list.

[BloodyB]

Honestly, ignoring 1 point of AP makes a whole host of units better, even Repulsors are now listed as 'not completely useless' in my book. Still bad, but baby steps!

 

I didn't see a huge range of bodyguards outside of Cryptothralls and Company vets (my friend runs his boarding marines as company vets with shields and bolters) so I don't know if the new rules make that big of a difference, since both of those units already have rules to that effect anyway for certain models at least. Definitely something to consider though. The sheer staying power of Eliminators against all but the most deadly fire power is going to lead to strong assault elements being used to eliminate them. Or Imperial Fist-style ignores cover being used a lot, but both are important considerations.

 

Do you use the deployment of your Eliminators to set up on a midfield objective, closer to your opponent? Or hang back and use other elements of your army to snag those objectives and blunt the threat? With 3 units, you can go for a mix of methods, but in smaller games you might not get that advantage. Even with the fallback ability Eliminators have, that will often mean leaving cover, a risky proposition for such a small squad, even with this buff.

 

Having said this, I think we may see units like Incursors become more prevalent as a counter, having ignores cover, denying 2 points of armour if I am not mistaken, is a good start on killing these guys, moreso by deploying in very close proximity to such a small unit, just forcing them back can be a big advantage. Units which ignore cover like Wyverns, Incursors, Phosphor weapons and virtually all Imperial Fist models for light cover, can be viable counters to this unit which seems to be on track to be an auto-take.

[Medjugorje]

Eliminators just have a cost of 75 points. Thats just a 5 point increase to Intercessors. I played them before the BT supplement comes out and just put them away from my lists because BT never gain the benefit of cover with "Uphold the honor". 

 

I will play them in all my lists from now on.

[Dracos]

With AoC it certainly opens up list options for Black Templar. Almost like they knew the “best” Vow wasn’t going to necessarily stay that way

[Galron]

Just remember, you are ignoring -1 Ap, you arent adding an armor save. A 3+ save is still a 3+ save, just it now takes -2 to change it. But yeah, Eliminators and marines in general just got a massive buff. It was always nice with Salamanders before. This makes Elimators hard to kill but also makes in your face units like assault units and so forth require an inordinate amount of fire power to stop them. 

[Marshal Mittens]

Just remember, you are ignoring -1 Ap, you arent adding an armor save. A 3+ save is still a 3+ save, just it now takes -2 to change it. But yeah, Eliminators and marines in general just got a massive buff. It was always nice with Salamanders before. This makes Elimators hard to kill but also makes in your face units like assault units and so forth require an inordinate amount of fire power to stop them.

 

Eliminators in cover are +2 save, or 1+, and with this, ignore the first AP. So saving on 2+ in cover against AP-2, or 3+ against AP-3.

 

Pretty hard to shift! And they can transhuman if they take heavy fire.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Marshall Mittens

[Brother Kraskor]

Just remember, you are ignoring -1 Ap, you arent adding an armor save. A 3+ save is still a 3+ save, just it now takes -2 to change it. But yeah, Eliminators and marines in general just got a massive buff. It was always nice with Salamanders before. This makes Elimators hard to kill but also makes in your face units like assault units and so forth require an inordinate amount of fire power to stop them. 

 

I think this is important. Marines are going to be desperate to be in cover to maximise the benefit of Contempt. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

City fight and jungle boards !!!

[Karhedron]

Fluff-wise, Marines are supposed to excel in dense environments where the enemy struggles to bring heavy weapons to bear.

[Dracos]

GW terrain set up provides a fair amount of cover.

 

Ive ran into a lot of armies that have the ability to ignore the benefits of cover though so … meh.

[Closet Skeleton]

At 3 models Eliminators die pretty quickly to massed AP0. Melta guns often bounced off them before this change so its really only bad target priority that will cause them to survive.

 

Getting a 4+ save against melta is funny but as someone who always found Eliminators durable I'm more looking forwards to that toughness being more spread out over the army.

 

If any marine unit got a special boost from armour of contempt then rather than it being a defensive one it is Helblasters now that -5 AP S8 D2 rapid fire is now actually a desirable profile. Might even swap out the Eliminators I was taking anyway to make room.

 

 

Just remember, you are ignoring -1 Ap, you arent adding an armor save. A 3+ save is still a 3+ save, just it now takes -2 to change it. But yeah, Eliminators and marines in general just got a massive buff. It was always nice with Salamanders before. This makes Elimators hard to kill but also makes in your face units like assault units and so forth require an inordinate amount of fire power to stop them. 

 

I think this is important. Marines are going to be desperate to be in cover to maximise the benefit of Contempt. 

 

Marines have always been desperate for cover since 8th ed dropped.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Closet Skeleton

[BloodyB]

Seeing marines set to benefit from terrain in such a majormway is interesting. Being able to move from cover to cover is going to be an immense point for units now. Maybe Scouts will once more become important on the table?

 

This could be how Vanguard in general become more viable, being able to appear in the thickest cover while having access to some ignores cover and other useful abilities like blocking overwatch from defensible terrain.

 

I managed to use a single squad last night against a character-heavy T'au list, and got some very good results, both in terms of durability and assassinations performed, alongside Sniper Scouts, I got some serious work done in terms of mortal wounds. One Ethereal, a Fireblade and a couple of Battlesuit Commanders all took at least one bolt round betwixt their peepers each, as well as more than a few regular mechas and fire warriors. And the Eliminators took some serious firepower in stride in their turn.

 

I think that Eliminators may actually be an auto take for me now.

[phandaal]

Cover is no better or worse than it was before this update.

 

Space Marines are just better in general now, regardless of where they are on the table.

[chapter master 454]

Would also mention that Salamanders also make them a little more annoying to hurt as well. I mean, 3+ base with +2 from cover due to camo-cloaks, AP is reduced by 1 against them AND you can't re-roll to wound them. Bare in mind that while re-roll to wound maybe isn't the most common re-roll, command re-roll is a thing and being to able to block that is quite potent.

 

Hold on...it is off topic but...that means you can't re-roll to wound salamander tanks...