Help with first gt

[yan]

Next weekend im playing my first tournament ever. I know space marines weren’t in a great position. But i enjoy putting a list together and making it tabletop reddy.

 

I was planning on bringing something like this list:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373403-yan%E2%80%99s-2k-space-wolves-succesor/?do=findComment&comment=5799176

 

Except one twc less and no upgrade on the libby. So to bring a unit of eliminators.

 

As you can see it was the idea to have lots of invulnsaves. But since storm shields are kind of pointless now im not sure what to do. Should i just put extra lightning claws on everybody? (Also wulfen?)

Or should i move back to my old dread heavy list?

 

Deadline for the roster is monday.

I do appreciate your thoughts!

[Closet Skeleton]

Best army is the army you know how to use, so changing your list to a better one outside of a few optimisation tweaks is always kind of dubious.

 

Tournaments are a good place to crash test an army list but your first will be a whole other learning experience on top of that. Its hard to learn lessons when you have so many new variables that you can't tell which are important. You'll probably get murdered either way whether or not you bring a non-meta list you have experience with or a meta list you don't understand.

 

So if you have a lot of experience with that dread list it might be the better option over that cookie cutter over melee focused list you posted.

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry are screwed over by a lot of terrain. That's why Space Wolves aren't top tier among marines and jump infantry are just the best marine melee unit. I don't know what terrain Dutch tournaments are using so can't help you there.

[TiguriusX]

The advice above nails it.

 

An average army that you know and are very familiar with is better than a list that looks better on paper but you have never used.

 

Tips for your first tournament

-sit whenever you can....your legs and back will be sore after a full day of gaming

 

-dont let the excitement blind you.

before you start your turn take a moment to think about what you need to do to score points and win the game.

 

sometimes having an easy melee kill you blinds you to a better move

 

good hunting!

[yan]

Tnx! Appreciate it.

I have been practicing with this list a lot, so im quite used to it now. Im just wondering if I should remove the storm shields.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I dont think you should and here's why

 

Power Armour saves;

3+ vs AP0

3+ vs AP-1

4+ vs AP-2

5+ vs AP-3

6+ vs AP-4

 

Power Armour with Storm Shield saves:

2+ vs AP0

3+ vs AP-1

4+ vs AP-2 and above due to 4+ invulnerable save

 

Terminator saves:

2+ vs AP0

2+ vs AP-1

3+ vs AP-2

4+ vs AP-3

5+ vs AP-4 and above due to 5+ invulnerable save.

 

Stormshield Terminator saves:

1+ vs AP0

2+ vs AP-1

3+ vs AP-2

4+ vs AP-3 and above due to 4+ invulnerable save.

 

Valkyrion gets all tge credit for breaking this out in tge news forum but it might help you decide.

 

I would take them on tcav because mine get pretty high ap high damage guns pointed at them often. The 4 wounds is a really high count tgat seems to draw melta level fire, at least for me. Because of that, a 50% save chance is well worth the 5 points over a 16% save chance. Also the 2+ is good if they are trying with massed small arms instead.

 

To me it seems Terminators might not need shields as much, but power armor they are still useful for sure.

[TiguriusX]

that chart doesnt take light cover into account

 

as SW we have storm caller and bring light cover with us as we move

 

it means even regular power armor has a 2+ against AP0 and AP3 is needed before it hits the invulnerable 4++

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

That is also certainly a valid point. Though 30 points of storm shields is cheaper than 120 points of Liberian that can be denied

[TiguriusX]

he already has a rune priest with storm caller in his list

[yan]

This could be an alternative list with models i have and know.

 

HQ

Librarian

Selections: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller, Boltgun, Force sword, Jump Pack, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike

Selections: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Benediction of Fury, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Hunter, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, Warlord, Wise Orator

 

Troops

Assault Intercessor Squad

 

Grey Hunters

Selections: 4x Astartes Chainsword

 

Incursor Squad

 

Elites

Redemptor Dreadnought

Selections: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought

Selections: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, macro Plasma incinerator , Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Wulfen

4x Thunder Hammer

 

Wulfen

4x Thunder Hammer

 

Wulfen Dreadnought

Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield

2x Heavy flamer

 

Wulfen Dreadnought

Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield

2x Heavy flamer

 

Fast Attack

Cyberwolves

 

Cyberwolves

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry

3x Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw

 

Heavy Support

Eliminator Squad

Selections: Bolt sniper rifle

Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine, Morkai's Teeth Bolts

 

Long Fangs

Armorium Cherub

4x multi melta

Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Grav-gun

 

Dedicated Transport

Drop Pod

[Lord_Ikka]

This is general tournament advice, as I'm not a SW player and others can advise you on your specific list better than I can:

 

1. Try to sit as much as possible- as mentioned above, you will get tired and sore leaning over a table for 6+ hours.

2. Hydrate and pack snacks- the longer the tournament goes the more you need energy and you always need to hydrate to keep your mind clear.

3. Shower/hygiene- I wish I didn't have to say this, but showering and possibly keeping a stick of deodorant in your bag makes the tournament better for everyone. Not saying you aren't clean, it's just with as many tournaments/cons I've been to, you don't want to be the smelly guy. 

4. Get good sleep beforehand- going out for a drink the night before can be fun and great for meeting other players, but pace yourself and try to at least get 7 hours of sleep before the tournament. 

5. Play an army you are comfortable with- unless you are a super-competitive player, tournaments should be about having fun and its not fun to lose because you forgot some rule or ability with an army you aren't familiar with.

 

Have fun, and happy hunting!

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Lord_Ikka - gave a lot of good advice. Try to have a simple strategy in mind most games as well. if you're not used to playing in multiple games in a day it can be a lot. Also 40k has a lot of knowledge checks so don't get too frustrated. It's hard not to be salty in the moment, but its a game and not the best balanced one. So don't let a rough round ruin your day.

[TiguriusX]

where are the skalds?

 

where is his saga?

Edited April 18, 2022 by TiguriusX

[yan]

The tourney is next weekend, so the sagas will come!

Today was the deadline for the list.

Ive decided to put some fun units together wich i like playing. And im keen to try them all out and see how tough they are now.

Probably not the best tactics ready, but its gonna be one big learning experience anyway.

 

HQ

Librarian [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]

Selections: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller, Boltgun, Force axe, Jump Pack, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [8 PL, 150pts, -1CP]

Selections: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Benediction of Fury, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Hunter, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, Warlord, Wise Orator

 

Troops

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

4x Assault Intercessor

Selections: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol

Assault Intercessor Sgt

Selections: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 95pts]

Selections: 4x Astartes Chainsword

Grey Hunter Pack Leader

Selections: Astartes Chainsword

4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

Selections: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

 

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]

4x Incursor

Selections: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades

Incursor Sergeant

 

Elites

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 195pts]

Selections: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 195pts]

Selections: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Wulfen [8 PL, 145pts]

Wulfen Pack Leader

Selections: Wulfen Frost claws

4x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield

Selections: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer

 

Wulfen [8 PL, 145pts]

Wulfen Pack Leader

Selections: Wulfen Frost claws

4x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield

Selections: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer

 

Wulfen Dreadnought [7 PL, 135pts]

Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield

Blizzard Shield

Selections: Blizzard shield, Heavy flamer

Great Wolf Claw

Selections: Heavy flamer

 

Wulfen Dreadnought [7 PL, 130pts]

Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield

Blizzard Shield

Selections: Blizzard shield, Heavy flamer

 

Fast Attack

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry [14 PL, 175pts]

Thunderwolf Cavalry

Selections: Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

Thunderwolf Cavalry

Selections: Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

Thunderwolf Cavalry

Selections: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol

Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader

Selections: Bolt pistol, Lightning Claw

 

Heavy Support

 

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

Selections: Bolt sniper rifle

Eliminator Sergeant

Selections: Instigator Bolt Carbine, Morkai's Teeth Bolts

2x Eliminators

Selections: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

 

Long Fangs [7 PL, 175pts]

Selections: Armorium Cherub

Long Fang

Selections: Multi-melta

Long Fang

Selections: Multi-melta

Long Fang

Selections: Multi-melta

Long Fang

Selections: Multi-melta

Long Fang Pack Leader

Selections: Astartes Chainsword

Boltgun and Bolt Pistol

 

Dedicated Transport

 

Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]

Selections: Storm bolter

[yan]

So my first match up will be against necrons.

Ive only played twice against them and won both times, but those lists had lots of warriors.

I also asume this player will be a bit more skilled.

Any advice?

 

Here’s his list

 

++ Supreme Detachment (Necrons) Dynasty Choice ; Circumstance of Awakening: Relentlessly Expansionist, Dynastic Tradition: Eternal Conquerors +3CP

HQ1: 1 x The Silent King,[23 PL, 420pts],Annihilator beam, Sceptre of Eternel glory, Staff of Stars, Scythe of Dustl

++ Vangard Detachment -3CP (Necrons) Dynasty Choice ; Circumstance of Awakening: Relentlessly Expansionist, Dynastic Tradition: Eternal Conquerors,(108 PL,1580pts], Stratagems : Hand Of the Phaeron -2 CP, Dynastic Heirlooms -1 CP, Rarefied Nobility – 1 CP

HQ 2: 1 x Catacomb command barge, [9 PL, 160pts], Relic Voltaic Staff, Gauss Cannon(5 pts) Warlord Trait Enduring Will-1CP

HQ 3: 1 x Technomancer,[6 PL, 110pts] Canoptek Cloak(5 pts), Arkana Fail-safe Overcharge(30 pts) Relic Veil of Darkness- 1 CP​

Bound Creation : 2 x Crypothralls(40pts), [2 PL, 40pts]

Elite 1 : 5 x Flayed Ones, [3 PL, 50pts], Flayer Claws

Elite 2 : 5 x Flayed Ones, [3 PL, 50pts], Flayer Claws

Elite 3 : 5 x Skorpekh Destroyers, [10 PL, 150pts], 1 x Hyperphase reap-blade, 4 x Hyperphase Threshers

Viral Construct 1 x Canoptek Plasmacyte (1 PL ; 15Pts)

Elite 4 : 5 x Skorpekh Destroyers, [10 PL, 150pts], 1 x Hyperphase reap-blade, 4 x Hyperphase Threshers

Viral Construct 1 x Canoptek Plasmacyte (1 PL ; 15Pts)

Elite 5 : 5 x Skorpekh Destroyers, [10 PL, 150pts], 1 x Hyperphase reap-blade, 4 x Hyperphase Threshers

Viral Construct 1 x Canoptek Plasmacyte (1 PL ; 15Pts)

Fast Attack 1 : 5 x Canoptek Wraiths [10 PL, 175pts] 2 x Whip Coils 3 x Vicious Claws

Fast Attack 2 : 5 x Canoptek Wraiths [10 PL, 175pts] 2 x Whip Coils 3 x Vicious Claws

Heavy support 1 : 3 x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers(12 PL,165pts), 3 x Gauss Destructor

Heavy support 2 : 1 x Doomsday Ark (10 PL,160pts), Doomsday Cannon, 2 x Gauss Flayer Array

[Lord_Ikka]

Necron player here. The list is designed to get up close into melee. The Skorpekhs and Wraiths are fast and deadly, the Technomancer can Veil of Darkness teleport pretty much anything in the list, and the Silent King will give out lots of buffs. With Eternal Expansionists going on, he will have a 6" move pregame for everything and everything in the list will have ObSec. The Flayed Ones will be used for action-oriented secondaries like RND and/or movement objectives like Behind Enemy Lines/Engage on All Fronts. 

 

Its going to be a hard list to fight- it will be really, really fast, moving up the board and contesting the middle objectives quickly with units that fairly durable, as everything aside from the Flayed Ones/Technomancer are T5 or better. One weakness of these type of Necron lists is that it is hard to Reanimate multi-wound models that die individually (Skorpekhs/Wraiths), so if possible try to pick those units off by spreading out fire. Seems counter-intuitive to split fire, but unless you can take out all the models in a Skorpekh/Wraith unit, the more you kill off will give your enemy a better chance to bring back some (i.e.- if you kill off 4 the enemy has a better chance of bringing back 1/2 models than if you had just killed off 1). 

 

My best advice is this- Try to counter his Skorpekh with your Wulfen (they match up ok), his Wraiths with your Dreads (Skorpekh can wreck dreads better than Wraiths). Your Long Fangs should probably drop and take out the Doomsday Ark/Heavy Destroyers and then grab the enemy backfield objective. 

[yan]

That was a rough first day. But im happy with how it went and already learnd a lot. The first game I really had to get into it. I was a bit nervous and made dome big mistakes (like forgetting to pile in onto objectives, do actions, and left a dread in the open to be shot). After that i kind of got into it more and more.

I like how you get into your list on a tournament, but its also really intense and very short brakes. I also need to learn to play faster!

 

But after the mistakes (that lost me the game) it went a lot better. I managed to kill both his wraiths units with my wulfen. He held his skorpekhs back to screen and counter so then there was a gab to his silent king wich i could melta and finish off with wulfen and wulfen dread. We made it till round 4. And i was heavy behind on points.

 

Then i played a drukhari list, wich im more familiar with. First turns nothing really happend. We both moved up a bit and took our objectives.

Then he made a mistake to go stand in the middle with a raider loaded with his hq’s and some other units, where i could charge them with mu wulfen and wulfen dreads and butcher most of it.

And he left a gab in his backfield where i could come in and shoot his ravangers (also his to the last). We also made it to round 4 but the victory was ours this time!

 

Then i played another space wolves player! He had 3 units of wulfen, 3 wulfguard lc/ss. And a unit of terminatorss. Also a droppod of multimeltas.

Was a hard matchup. I tell more about it later because my time is running up. Have to get ready for day 2! Where i will start on some thousand sons.

[yan]

So the space wolves list was a hard match up. And i found out hoe anoying AoC is. I charged my twc into a unit of incursors and they got stuck in combat for the next three turns.

I made a mistake to expose a redemptor, so he put his droppod in the middle of the table and melted it away. I was to focussed on screening the backfield haha.

 

Then i was hoping to shoot the longfangs, but again AoC saved them and i had to charge them with two dreads. The counter kind of cleared me of the board.

 

I should’ve fallen the twc back and charged them into it, so i could’ve made the counter. But then again I thought i could shoot the fangs away :(

So i pritty much got tabled in turn 4.

Interesting thing in his list was hecaton aiaikos. A sort of cheaper version of bjorn wich you can take with successor chapters!

 

So the second day I played against thousand sons. It was the best game for me because i had a nice opponent and didn’t make any big mistakes this time.

I managed to drop first turn and shoot his forgefiend, really his only antitank unit. Then i managed to fight his marines of the objectives with my dreads, so he had to bring his termi’s out, wich i could counter with my wulfen. And full rerolls on wulfen is sweet! So i managed to win this one :)

 

Then the last game was against Tau. And im still struggling against them very much. The terrain had a lot of dense cover, wich was not really helping. It was really hard to get to him. Especially because he peaks around the corner, ignors hit modifyers, shoots me to crap and then fades back. I thought i could come down with the long fangs and get rid of a unit of crisis battlesuits, but merely cleared the drones.

I have to practice against this one! So again got tabled :(

 

Overall it was a really nice experience and I’ve learned a lot! Its nice how you get into the game after a round and remember your rules a lot better then when you only play once/twice a month.

I met some really nice people. But some where also a bit more snobby i felt especially the ones trying to be really competitive but where more mid tables).

Its okay, everybody got their game. I just find it interesting how different people approach the game :)

 

In the end I didn’t even got last! Wich i was expecting from my first tourny. Managed to leave two people behind me, and im sure I could’ve done a lot better if I didn’t screw up so much on primarys. Next time!

Maybe not a gt but a one day tourney though

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It sounds like you did well for your first tournament :). I went 0-3 in my first one lol.

 

I typically have more fun at the one day tournaments cause you have to deal with less salt from players who didn't do as well as they hoped. The GTs do really help you learn the game though.

[Prot]

Yea I agree that’s great for your first tournament, and nothing at all to be ashamed about no matter how long you’ve been playing. 
 

I myself have been balancing the merits of multiple claw attacks vs AP attacks. Does this mean the return of power swords, and the death of hammers?  It’s hard to tell. Hammers felt like such a good option for a unit that can still swing at WS. But that AP2 on claws and hammers kind of makes me think multi Fists ( and chainswords) might move the way to go for TWC right now.  
 

I’m just thinking out loud here as I am just putting my own TWC together and am trying to differentiate the units while keeping them useful and your recent experience vs AoC is some good food for thought. Thank you for this. 
 

edit: conversely I was wondering about the combination of lower ap (claws/hammers) and combining this with one of the mechanisms to put your squad into the Assault doctrine. Did you try this? Did it help against AoC?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Prot