Shining Spears post codex

[Prot]

So I’m stuck on these guys. This is another unit I’m not too convinced of but I wanted to paint up two boxes, so….

 

Do you think 2 x3 squads (2 exarchs) is workable? Or just a 5-6 man unit (1 exarch) for more staying power?

 

The only sense of comparison I have is the Windriders. So far I’ve been using a 3 man squad and it’s just too small, especially if you’re trying to accomplish secondaries with them.

 

So the big question is this unit better with two exarchs? It just a single, more sizeable unit? Any thoughts. (I have not played this unit myself since the new codex dropped)

[Dr. Clock]

Haven't tried either, but If you're already using windriders for actions, units of 3 make sense to me. Stick with the windriders, they are frequently MVPs for me, or at least top 3.

 

I can't imagine really trying to hide a unit of more than 3...

 

So in most cases I'd start with 3 and maybe go up to 4-5 sometimes, but only if you don't have the points or slots for 2x3; they could very well benefit from some redundancy in that shock cav role, and with even more MSU bikes to back it up? *chef's kiss*

 

I took 5 windriders and 3 shroudrunners ytday in the Runners' first outing. I liked the Runner alot more than I expected, and hope that's the same for 1x3 shining spears...

 

So I think I'd say first off that the 3 windriders are going to likely get more opportunities for actions if you run them in support of the spears, but 5 spears is gonna die pretty much just as fast a 3 alot of the time... the nice thing about just 3 is that the enemy is often gonna over kill them because they can't be safely ignored once they're in striking distance.

 

Last night I also pulled off a Ghostwalk charge on Scorps from reserves. Highly recommend Ghostwalk on skyrunner farseer... and spears are possibly the best candidate for first-turn charges if you're feeling saucy. Pretty likely 24+d6" charge range if you wanna toe the line, and Phantasm out of there if you don't get Turn 1... Plus if Ghostwalk fails or you don't get a Strands charge, just leave yourself somewhere within 6" to go for cover with Battle Focus.

 

Happy Hunting! Kurnous wud b proud.

 

The Good Doctor.

[Prot]

Haven't tried either, but If you're already using windriders for actions, units of 3 make sense to me. Stick with the windriders, they are frequently MVPs for me, or at least top 3.

 

I can't imagine really trying to hide a unit of more than 3...

 

So in most cases I'd start with 3 and maybe go up to 4-5 sometimes, but only if you don't have the points or slots for 2x3; they could very well benefit from some redundancy in that shock cav role, and with even more MSU bikes to back it up? *chef's kiss*

 

I took 5 windriders and 3 shroudrunners ytday in the Runners' first outing. I liked the Runner alot more than I expected, and hope that's the same for 1x3 shining spears...

 

So I think I'd say first off that the 3 windriders are going to likely get more opportunities for actions if you run them in support of the spears, but 5 spears is gonna die pretty much just as fast a 3 alot of the time... the nice thing about just 3 is that the enemy is often gonna over kill them because they can't be safely ignored once they're in striking distance.

 

Last night I also pulled off a Ghostwalk charge on Scorps from reserves. Highly recommend Ghostwalk on skyrunner farseer... and spears are possibly the best candidate for first-turn charges if you're feeling saucy. Pretty likely 24+d6" charge range if you wanna toe the line, and Phantasm out of there if you don't get Turn 1... Plus if Ghostwalk fails or you don't get a Strands charge, just leave yourself somewhere within 6" to go for cover with Battle Focus.

 

Happy Hunting! Kurnous wud b proud.

 

The Good Doctor.

 

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

I'm starting to think my meta of very, very hard armies (tough) is what is giving me such a skewed view. The Windriders are vanilla in my army. Very basic load out (catapults) and they just try to grab objectives, and/or count quarters. Current secondaries mean we need three models to do that now. I'm finding once 1 bike is gone, the unit is useless. A non threat that can't hold water, or score anything. So I'm personally ready to buy a second squad to get them to 4-6 models or pull them entirely.

 

That's a great strat with the Scorpions. Nice find. I used to use Ghostwalk in the previous codex, but have yet to fit it in to my current lists. 

 

I also just realized something I have been screwing up for months. For some reason I started penalizing myself for moving/shooting heavy weapons on bikes. So I took Cannons off of my Bikers, and the weird thing is -none- of my opponents caught this!  So I'll add some I guess.

 

Also I'm not sure how I would ensure a 24" + 6" charge? 

 

I am feeling like it will be 2 x 3 models for this. I feel like one squad with 4 models will be a good number again, with -1 to hit (shooting) and a 5++ on the squad? (Crosses fingers)

[Dr. Clock]

Sorry - 24+d6 charge threat range including movement: 16" move + 6" from Strands if you're (marginally) lucky, +2" from Ghostwalk, + d6 for second charge dice... So it's true you can't ensure it, but it's pretty likely, especially if you lean into Strands manipulation.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor

[Prot]

Ah I see. Good point, the threat range is nice.

[Plague _Lord]

So any luck with these guys?

[Widowmaker82]

Disclaimer: I've only played 25 power games and only used Shining Spears twice so far. I also play Saim-hann and they really make the most of the attribute and  stratagem. I'm playing in a quite narrative (uncompetitive) crusade, only playing against Necrons so far; we're playing in the Pariah Nexus just now so using Necrons as a kind of NPC army.

 

I've been using a unit of 3 with Exarch armed with star lance, shimmershield and shuriken cannon. I've found them to be decent so far. They are so fast that there's really no hiding from them; with the stratagem they can advance 22" and still charge (with a re-roll due to Saim-hann attribute). And they hit sufficiently hard to destroy anything they've gone into.

 

If you're facing quite tough armies, 3 attacks each at S6 (on the charge) and AP -4 doing 2 damage should do some work (as usual for D2 weapons, any damage reduction will really blunt their hitting power; e.g. Death Guard). The Exarch will hit even harder with a star lance, or with a paragon blade should kill any 1W infantry fairly reliably.

 

I think the shimmershield is actually a pretty good upgrade on the Exarch; it's only an upgrade from 5++ to 4++ on the Exarch only, but because he has 3W it makes him a bit of a pain to remove. It's even better if he has an Exarch power because he gets an extra wound and attack; he's basically got the stats of a lowish level character at that point. I don't have any real opinion on the Exarch powers yet because I've not upgraded them to have one yet, but they all look fairly decent to me. Expert Lancers feels like the one to most increase their damage output because it affects the whole unit, and Heartstrike looks like it would be good with a Paragon Sabre.

 

The Saim-hann attribute allows them to fall back and charge, which is obviously really good for them. It's something you can do with any Aeldari army though using the Feigned Retreat stratagem.

 

All in all, I've found a unit of 3 to be enough so far. They did die in one game, but it basically took the whole Necron army to kill them. That was after they'd done a T1 charge and cleared out a unit of Ophydian Destroyers with relative ease. I think in bigger games a unit of 3 might be a bit too fragile, though they're not too hard to hide as a squad of 3 and they have such a huge threat range that they can reach out from pretty much any hiding spot to hit where you want them to.

 

I would keep units like Windriders (fast/cheap) and Dire Avengers (cheap and can still shoot when doing actions) for things like grabbing objectives and performing actions. Shining Spears are, in my opinion, for picking a juicy target in your opponent's army and making it dead wherever it might be hiding. 

[Tyriks]

I've used mine a few times and found the same. They are going to die but they can also hunt down pretty much anything, they do decent damage against elites or light vehicles. I wish they could do more to tougher vehicles, though. It's a glaring lack in the range of Aspect Warriors (imo) that we don't have tank/monster hunting close combat unit.

[Dr. Clock]

I wish they could do more to tougher vehicles, though. It's a glaring lack in the range of Aspect Warriors (imo) that we don't have tank/monster hunting close combat unit.

I hear that... Mostly it seems like the Dmg 2 makes them more niche thanks purely to -1 dmg proliferation : P

 

The problem is aggravated by the fact that when it's not mitigated, Dmg 2 is perfectly respectable,  but flat 3 would make them basically either imbalanced or too expensive.

 

Still - outside of jetbike/cavalry archetype, it seems like possibly 'tank/monster hunting melee infantry' aspect would be hard to differentiate from scorps/banshees in a good way...

 

Mounted armoured assault aspect, though? Basically a piloted Wlord with sword/shield? Mini-me WKnights with a classic crew canopy?

 

I guess you could do Elves with hammers... :whistling: like Lumineth?

 

Can Haz Nundams But Space Elves?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.