Will new World Eaters be for 30k AND 40k?

[Marshal Mittens]

Demon Primarch Angron was at the Siege of Terra, and the World Eaters dont really have many mutations in their Bezerkers and Termies as the other legions; it seems like they could do the World Eaters release in such a way that the models would work for 30k and 40k.

 

There have been some rumors that World Eaters would be updated this year for 40k, and some rumors that they will be one of the first legions to get attention in 30k.

 

Maybe their Legion will be getting a release that works for both systems, model wise?

 

Does anyone else think this is likely, or unlikely?

[lansalt]

Daemon prince Angron makes sense for both eras, but WE even at the end of Heresy didn't look yet like 40k WE with Khorne icons all over them. So I think the 40k models will be separate and different, like the teased WH+ WE terminator lord based in the classic illustration.

[Irate Khornate]

Not likely. They will have too much iconography and filigree on the armor. However Angron will be usable in both systems more than likely.

 

You also have to remember that the bunny ears were not a common sight when it came to the legion days until near the end of the Horus Heresy. Angron himself forbid them to be worn by his veterans.

[lansalt]

You also have to remember that the bunny ears were not a common sight when it came to the legion days until near the end of the Horus Heresy. Angron himself forbid them to be worn by his veterans.

IIRC they were called "caedere" (?) helmets and came from the gladiator traditions of Angron's homeworld. FW sells a WE 30k heads set with them and they appaer in Black Books illustrations.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Angron is turned into a Daemon Primarch during the Shadow Crusade by Lorgar, so I'd think any time after/during that we'll see a profile for it.

 

I've postulated before that 30k will start back up in/around the Shadow Crusade, given Argel Tal, etc., so I could see that showing up amongst the first campaign books.

 

The base World Eaters sculpts themselves may work for 30k as well, depending. They might not 'off the shelf' though. Some conversion work would probably be required.

Edited April 19, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

You also have to remember that the bunny ears were not a common sight when it came to the legion days until near the end of the Horus Heresy. Angron himself forbid them to be worn by his veterans.

IIRC they were called "caedere" (?) helmets and came from the gladiator traditions of Angron's homeworld. FW sells a WE 30k heads set with them and they appaer in Black Books illustrations.

Just so. They were a dubious honor. It meant that the warrior was too damaged mentally to fight anything but death matches.

[Dr. Clock]

I mean... the minis will probably 'work' in both systems, but I doubt they'll release specific 'dual system' kits. More likely IMO that 40k Zerks/WE left as 'their own thing' so that the studio can go ham on the bunny ears, skulls and icons. At the end of the day I'd usually prefer to just 'sprinkle' bits from one kit on another and vise versa than get 2 of the same kit, even if I can use that unit in 2 systems.

 

What's kind of interesting is that it looks like some things from 30k WE are being brought forward into 40k Chaos Legionary rules and loadouts generally.

 

For instance, the new Heavy Chainaxe from the Kill Team is pretty much ripped straight from the 30k Rampager squad... so I'm certainly glad I already splurged on a small squad of them for 40k Zerkification. Even with some headswaps they work fine as 'late Heresy Rampagers' too. So far I've only built a couple; distracted by Eldar mostly.

 

At least for the next few years I expect 30k plastic releases to be very much 'their own thing' as they focus on getting the universal staple units out there. There are plenty of options for Legion customization from the basic / unadorned kits, and plenty of options in other ranges to bring in 'mortal' units just as soon as that's a thing.

 

I haven't played 30k since 8th Ed. started, but I was using an Army of Dark Compliance list with just a small number of 'pretty gribbly marines' and dreadnoughts backed by a big horde of Traitors and Mutants... It was quite glorious indeed, and hopefully 'new 30k' will progress past 'oops all marines' relatively quickly so that there are options to field all the weirdness that the setting suggests.

 

So basically, no matter what, 'marines is marines' and I expect plenty of people will be happy with casual games that include some 30k minis in 40k, or some 40k minis in 30k... but from experience GW doesn't love selling things in a single box for multiple games... They'll just wink and nod as we build 'Orlock Imperial Guard' or 'Cawdor Admech', or just bling out oldmarines with Corpsegrinder/Goliath bits.

 

So yeah... I'm expecting alot of Chaos fun across both systems over time, but almost no self-consciously 'double marketed' kits.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Sception]

 

So yeah... I'm expecting alot of Chaos fun across both systems over time, but almost no self-consciously 'double marketed' kits.

 

I agree with this.

 

Also, is it actually stated somewhere in the lore that berzerkers are less prone to mutation than any other chaos marines?  I wasn't aware of such.

 

Organization wise, I imagine 30k world eaters will have the standard variety of 30k units (bikes, jumps, tacs, termis, special/heavy weapon squads, etc), while a few of those might be absent from 40k.  Do 40k World Eaters still have jump troops, or, after the shattering of their legion, would their jump specialists have left to join raptor & warp talon cults?  Do 40k World Eaters still have bikers, or would khornate daemons possessing their bikes have slowly transformed them into juggernauts over the course of centuries in the eye of terror, and now they have blood crushers instead?  Do world eaters have havocs anymore?  etc.  I just don't see any more overlap between 30k and 40k world eaters than for black legion, night lords, or death guard.

[techsoldaten]

Heresy Angron had Gorefather and Gorechild. 40k Angron could only have Gorefather, unless he demands the other back from Khârn.

 

Either way, somebody's an axe short.

[Iron Lord]

Didn't he discard them both during the aforementioned Shadow Crusade? Khârn retrieved one with the intent of repairing it - the other disappeared and later turned up in 40K rules as a World Eaters relic.

 

As such, Daemon Primarch Angron should probably be wielding something else - maybe the sword that is seen on the classic Epic Angron figure.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Iron Lord

[BadgersinHills]

Didn't he discard them both during the aforementioned Shadow Crusade? Khârn retrieved one with the intent of repairing it - the other disappeared and later turned up in 40K rules as a World Eaters relic.

 

As such, Daemon Primarch Angron should probably be wielding something else - maybe the sword that is seen on the classic Epic Angron figure.

He used the Black Sword after his ascension until it was shattered by Hyperion, so they might have the sword for the Heresy version and an axe for the current one?

[Iron Lord]

Or he could just have a replacement Black Sword - perhaps shattering it just sent the daemon within back to the warp, and Angron tracked it down, captured it, and rebound it.

[Balthamal]

Short answer - No. Rules wise, totally different game systems now. Model wise? The Aesthetic for the 40K Primarchs (Gulliman/Mortarion/Magnus) is completely different to that of the 30k range. The scale issues aside, 30k models in general tend to be less busy than the 40k equivalents (new praetor's not withstanding) so can't see any scenario where they're overlapping.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Moved this from general 40K to the World Eaters forum because it is about World Eaters.

 

- Dr. R.

[Iron Lord]

Model wise? The Aesthetic for the 40K Primarchs (Gulliman/Mortarion/Magnus) is completely different to that of the 30k range. The scale issues aside, 30k models in general tend to be less busy than the 40k equivalents (new praetor's not withstanding) so can't see any scenario where they're overlapping.

Personally I think that, by the Siege of Terra at least, 40K-style models will have become the standard.

 

Death Guard in particular, don't need different "Plague Marine" models, when the existing ones wear Mark III armour and Cataphracti armour. 

 

As for the Thousand Sons, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that Ahriman did the Rubric before Magnus joins the others on Terra, just to justify the use of 40K Rubricae models for the battle.

 

IMO similar principles will apply to Berserkers - by the time they are battling at the Siege of Terra, 30K Berserkers will be basically indistinguishable from 40K ones.

[lansalt]

 

Model wise? The Aesthetic for the 40K Primarchs (Gulliman/Mortarion/Magnus) is completely different to that of the 30k range. The scale issues aside, 30k models in general tend to be less busy than the 40k equivalents (new praetor's not withstanding) so can't see any scenario where they're overlapping.

Personally I think that, by the Siege of Terra at least, 40K-style models will have become the standard.

 

Death Guard in particular, don't need different "Plague Marine" models, when the existing ones wear Mark III armour and Cataphracti armour. 

 

As for the Thousand Sons, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that Ahriman did the Rubric before Magnus joins the others on Terra, just to justify the use of 40K Rubricae models for the battle.

 

IMO similar principles will apply to Berserkers - by the time they are battling at the Siege of Terra, 30K Berserkers will be basically indistinguishable from 40K ones.

 

By the current Siege books, only WB and EC are mostly like their 40k versions. TS left the place ironically mostly unchanged (heh), DG were filthy and warp diseased but not yet the bloated mutated monstrosities of 40k. And World Eaters are unhinged with Angron roaming around, but they do not have become yet the red and brass dudes full of khorne runes with bunny ears in their future. For example, look at this Khârn's illustration from The First Wall:

 

[Iron Lord]

 

By the current Siege books, only WB and EC are mostly like their 40k versions. TS left the place ironically mostly unchanged (heh), DG were filthy and warp diseased but not yet the bloated mutated monstrosities of 40k. 

 

That wasn't the impression I got from The Buried Dagger. I recall it having Typhus's armour morphing and sprouting the Destroyer Hive, among other things.

 

 

As for Khârn, while it's true that his helmet does not yet  have the bunny ears, his arm is bare and with Gorechild chained to it, exactly as in 40K.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Iron Lord

[Marshal Mittens]

World Eaters and Templars had been chaining their weapons for a while by Terra I think?

[Iron Lord]

Templars didn't go "bare-armed" though - when a Templar has something chained to their arm, it's always an armoured arm.

[Balthamal]

 

Model wise? The Aesthetic for the 40K Primarchs (Gulliman/Mortarion/Magnus) is completely different to that of the 30k range. The scale issues aside, 30k models in general tend to be less busy than the 40k equivalents (new praetor's not withstanding) so can't see any scenario where they're overlapping.

Personally I think that, by the Siege of Terra at least, 40K-style models will have become the standard.

 

Death Guard in particular, don't need different "Plague Marine" models, when the existing ones wear Mark III armour and Cataphracti armour. 

 

As for the Thousand Sons, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that Ahriman did the Rubric before Magnus joins the others on Terra, just to justify the use of 40K Rubricae models for the battle.

 

IMO similar principles will apply to Berserkers - by the time they are battling at the Siege of Terra, 30K Berserkers will be basically indistinguishable from 40K ones.

 

 

The fact that the Kakaphoni are a thing instead of Noise Marines being used directly suggests otherwise. Ofc that was the business end of 10 years ago so the thinking may have changed but I don't see them going for a one size fits all approach. Are people free to use them? Of course they are. But GW aren't going to release a single kit when they could release 2 different ones and make extra £££.

 

 

 

As for the Thousand Sons, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that Ahriman did the Rubric before Magnus joins the others on Terra, just to justify the use of 40K Rubricae models for the battle.

 

 

It's explicitly stated in at least 2 books (Talon of Horus and Ahriman Unchanged iirc) that the thousand sons arrived/fought/left Terra as they were post Prospero. Notwithstanding the fact that Magnus would hardly have called Ahriman's Cabal to the siege if he'd banished them from the Planet of Sorcerers. Similar principle applies though if you want to use rubric marines to represent tactical squads or tactical support squads, rock on 

[Aarik]

I'm hoping that the 40k WE models lean more on older armor marks, like the death guard did, rather than the armor style of the new CSM.  But unfortunately, i think they will be very similar to the "new" Khârn 40k model, so not much use for Heresy.

[Iron Lord]

William King's classic Assault on Terra story does hammer home that these are very much Chaos Space Marines already - with the Primarchs all being daemonic, and the World Eaters being red-armoured now:

 

 

The pods touched ground and from them erupted the mightiest champions of Chaos, the renegade Space Marines of the lost legions. These were no longer the fine human warriors of legend but twisted creatures, bodies warped by the energies of Chaos, minds twisted by their devotion to the dark powers. If what had happened to the Space Marines was bad then what had happened to their Primarchs was worse. They had been created higher in the Emperor's esteem and had fallen further. None of their former comrades would have recognised them - they had been transformed into creatures both daemonic and exultant. 

Mighty Angron bellowed orders to his blood-drinking followers, the World Eaters. Brandishing his great runesword he led them against the defenders of Eternity Wall Spaceport. Around his red-armoured followers bolter shots whined. Unflinchingly they advanced, determined to spill blood for the Blood God. 

[betrayer41]

Here are some good pics for WE during the Siege.  Looks like Mix of HH armor with some reds and chaosy helmets thrown in. But for the most part still HH WE

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by betrayer41

[LameBeard]

I think the question is whether GW go down the Age of Sigmar route where one box gives you a choice of two different units - depending on the options you choose. You get a lot of leftover bits this way, but with (say) different heads, weapons and shoulder pads you can actually achieve quite a different effect: e.g. twin souls vs painbringers, or iron breakers vs iron drakes, or some of the aelf kits. Loads of examples that might be comparable to 30k to 40k World Eaters. An axe vs sword for Angron would be hardly different from Belakor’s base.

 

I agree the 30k vs 40k aesthetic has been different, but I do wonder if they’ll move closer together whether or not they release dual purpose kits …

[Closet Skeleton]

I hadn't thought of it but since 40k WE have always been supposed to favour Mark V Heresy armour anyway they should be 30k compatible.

 

I guess they could just deside not to provide Daemon Angron and Mortarion rules to spite 40k players they way they treated Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard.

 

Short answer - No. Rules wise, totally different game systems now. Model wise? The Aesthetic for the 40K Primarchs (Gulliman/Mortarion/Magnus) is completely different to that of the 30k range. The scale issues aside, 30k models in general tend to be less busy than the 40k equivalents (new praetor's not withstanding) so can't see any scenario where they're overlapping.

 

Not really. Magnus' 30k design missed out the nipple horns visible in the Black Library art but the etched armour isn't any less busy than his daemon form. Daemon Mortarion's body isn't very busy either thanks to just having regular trim and those big flat robed areas, its just the nurglings and plague cherubs providing any complication. The Siege of Terror: Warhawk cover already shows Daemon Mortarion with his 40k appearance.

 

40k's detail creep is on over stuffed infantry characters, the bigger stuff that's imposing in its own right doesn't have the same issues (with maybe the exception of the Warhammer World exclusive command tank sprue). I don't see how a 40k Angron could be any more out of place in 30k than the dedicated 30k Ka'banda we've already seen previewed.

 

 

 

Also, is it actually stated somewhere in the lore that berzerkers are less prone to mutation than any other chaos marines?  I wasn't aware of such.

 

Organization wise, I imagine 30k world eaters will have the standard variety of 30k units (bikes, jumps, tacs, termis, special/heavy weapon squads, etc), while a few of those might be absent from 40k.  Do 40k World Eaters still have jump troops, or, after the shattering of their legion, would their jump specialists have left to join raptor & warp talon cults?

 

 

Berzerkers are actually more prone to mutation than some units, not as much as Possessed and Warp talons. Its just that rather than random tentacles like DG tend to get Berzerkers tend to get massive muscles and fuse fully with their armour.

Current fluff is Raptors can still be members of their original legion and the Raptor cult, but that might change with regards to WE.

 

 

 

 

By the current Siege books, only WB and EC are mostly like their 40k versions. TS left the place ironically mostly unchanged (heh), DG were filthy and warp diseased but not yet the bloated mutated monstrosities of 40k. 

 

That wasn't the impression I got from The Buried Dagger. I recall it having Typhus's armour morphing and sprouting the Destroyer Hive, among other things.

 

HH fluff has always been that DG were full on Plague Marines when their arrived at the Siege of Terra. People just have a distorted view due to the FW releases being so Istvann focused.

 

 

 But GW aren't going to release a single kit when they could release 2 different ones and make extra £££.

 

 

That's literally not how the economics work.

 

Molds and design are massively expensive and it takes a lot of sales to recoup the cost. Doubling the molds and splitting the market loses money.

 

 

I'm hoping that the 40k WE models lean more on older armor marks, like the death guard did, rather than the armor style of the new CSM.  But unfortunately, i think they will be very similar to the "new" Khârn 40k model, so not much use for Heresy.

 

New CSM are in a variety of marks, DG all have one mark. That's the difference, not the age of the mark.

 

The same concept that put DG in Mark II and TS in Mark IV put WE in MK V so its safe to hope for WE with distinct armour but they aren't going to be in Great Crusade armour on that prescedent.