Point Reduction

[Maritn]

All non vehicle models are fine points wise but every single vehicle is overpriced. I take have no interest in them because of that.

 

Yes a Repulsor Executioner can put out a fair amount of fire power but is it worth sometimes a third of my list in points? No.

 

Land Raiders should be Assault Vehicles and I should be able to put Primaris inside them but that's a whole different grumble.

People always say the Repulsor can put out a fair amount of fire, but basically it's just 2 Krakstorms, a lascannon shot and the one time use Hunter-slayer more than a Redemptor while lacking it's CC ability, for 167% of the price of a Redemptor. For its price, the Repulsor is completely underarmed.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

 

- Land Raider, Land Raider Redeemer, Land Raider Crusader: 210 points.

Make it 225 and give it the damn Assault Vehicle rule. Bloody Impulsor gets it, the glorified flatbed truck, but the vehicle intended to deploy troops directly into combat doesn't.

 

*grumble grumble, Primaris, grumble grumble*

The Implusor rule has the same name but its worse than the old assault vehicle rule. You can't charge if you disembarked from it.

 

I think the raider should get the old assault vehicle rule, and the Impulsor rule should be re-named rapid deployment.

[Karhedron]

People always say the Repulsor can put out a fair amount of fire, but basically it's just 2 Krakstorms, a lascannon shot and the one time use Hunter-slayer more than a Redemptor while lacking it's CC ability, for 167% of the price of a Redemptor. For its price, the Repulsor is completely underarmed.

You are not just paying for the firepower though. The Repulsor gets T8, 3 extra Wounds, A Transport Capacity of 10 models and 2" of extra movement.

 

Having said all that I still agree that the Repulsor is overpriced and massively inferior to the Redemptor.

[Maritn]

 

People always say the Repulsor can put out a fair amount of fire, but basically it's just 2 Krakstorms, a lascannon shot and the one time use Hunter-slayer more than a Redemptor while lacking it's CC ability, for 167% of the price of a Redemptor. For its price, the Repulsor is completely underarmed.

You are not just paying for the firepower though. The Repulsor gets T8, 3 extra Wounds, A Transport Capacity of 10 models and 2" of extra movement.

 

Having said all that I still agree that the Repulsor is overpriced and massively inferior to the Redemptor.

You're right, but I think only the 2" of extra movement can really be factored in. On average T7 W13 and damage reduction is on par with T8 W16, given how the to wound table works. And transport capacity doesn't seem to be associated with costs when you look at the Razorback with Twin Lascannon @120 Vs the Predator with Twin Lascannon (without sponsons) @130 but +1W.

 

Also, the Repulsor has a bigger footprint and thus is more difficult to hide.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I agree with Maritn transport capacity isn't something that GW appears to assign a cost for. Which makes sense vehicles have to take risks to get your models where they need to go. So I think it would be difficult to charge the right number of points.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

All I know is that stormspeeders need to drop by about 30-40 points.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

At the very least and it should be more resilent.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

At the very least and it should be more resilent.

I think it’s plenty resilient for its role as a fast scout/attack craft.

It’s not supposed to be a tank standing in the battle line.

 

Maybe a fire and fade ability or stratagem would work to help make them more survivable while being fluffy.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me it’s a speeder on krack so I expect more.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

To me it’s a speeder on krack so I expect more.

and it gives more.

More fire power, more wounds, and more points!

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'd like for all of the stormspeeders to have bs 2. I think reliability is really what holds the hammerstrike back.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I'd like for all of the stormspeeders to have bs 2. I think reliability is really what holds the hammerstrike back.

BS 2 is the only reason I’m building mine as a thunderstrike. That and my army has a distinct lack of AT firepower

[Mandragola]

I don’t think points are the solution to marine tanks, though obviously the points are wrong right now. I just think it’s a bigger issue. Armour of contempt is a better option, though it doesn’t go far enough.

 

The fundamental problem is their rules, which make giving them an appropriate cost very difficult. You have enormous damage output and meagre survivability on most primaries vehicles. The result is a vehicle that can easily one-shot something equivalent to itself and then die.

 

That’s just a bad unit in an objective-based game. You can’t make it cheap because it’s too dangerous to be cheap, but it’s too squishy to be expensive.

 

Instead you need some kind of damage reduction mechanism to tone down the insane lethality of the whole game right now. Personally I’d need a whole lot of weapons right across 40k. Unfortunately it’s going hard the other way. My heart sinks a bit every time I see a preview article showing how yet more guns are having their damage and so stats increased, while going from 3 shots to 4, or whatever.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Mandragola

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don’t think points are the solution to marine tanks, though obviously the points are wrong right now. I just think it’s a bigger issue. Armour of contempt is a better option, though it doesn’t go far enough.

 

The fundamental problem is their rules, which make giving them an appropriate cost very difficult. You have enormous damage output and meagre survivability on most primaries vehicles. The result is a vehicle that can easily one-shot something equivalent to itself and then die.

 

That’s just a bad unit in an objective-based game. You can’t make it cheap because it’s too dangerous to be cheap, but it’s too squishy to be expensive.

 

Instead you need some kind of damage reduction mechanism to tone down the insane lethality of the whole game right now. Personally I’d need a whole lot of weapons right across 40k. Unfortunately it’s going hard the other way. My heart sinks a bit every time I see a preview article showing how yet more guns are having their damage and so stats increased, while going from 3 shots to 4, or whatever.

 

I think they have to look at a lot of the buffs as well. The amount of re-rolls in 40k is ridiculous, and then when combined with some stratagems, and doctrine style bonuses things just spiral out of control fast.