Possible evidence that Firstborn could stick around forever.

[jarms48]

First-born will never disappear entirely. 

 

What I think will happen though, is that all the current 40k old-scale first-born kits will disappear. Then GW will require players to buy the trueborn HH marines to use as First-born in 40k. 

 

It's two-birds-one-stone, just like how daemons are cross compatible with HH, 40k, and AoS. It'll make the model line sell more.

 

I still think this is the most likely answer. The current 40k first-born kits will disappear, but the datasheets that have HH counterparts won't. Only the datasheets that have no HH counterpart model will be legended.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I feel like GW is moving towards a subscription model. With two chapter approved, the pace of codex updates, and the amount of supplements it's getting to point where they want over a 100 dollars a year from me just for rules.

 

I think that really makes it more likely that firstborn stick around. There are a lot of players who won't budge on Primaris and they're going want their money. Plus it's safety valve for them for when 3d printing takes off.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I feel like GW is moving towards a subscription model. With two chapter approved, the pace of codex updates, and the amount of supplements it's getting to point where they want over a 100 dollars a year from me just for rules.

 

I think that really makes it more likely that firstborn stick around. There are a lot of players who won't budge on Primaris and they're going want their money. Plus it's safety valve for them for when 3d printing takes off.

GW won’t lose out on their money.

Either they’re not that diehard for firstborn or they’ll just transition to HH.

Either way they’ll lose minimal players by retiring firstborn and what they do lose will be quickly replaced

[DesuVult]

 

I feel like GW is moving towards a subscription model. With two chapter approved, the pace of codex updates, and the amount of supplements it's getting to point where they want over a 100 dollars a year from me just for rules.

 

I think that really makes it more likely that firstborn stick around. There are a lot of players who won't budge on Primaris and they're going want their money. Plus it's safety valve for them for when 3d printing takes off.

GW won’t lose out on their money.

Either they’re not that diehard for firstborn or they’ll just transition to HH.

Either way they’ll lose minimal players by retiring firstborn and what they do lose will be quickly replaced

Retiring existing models to Legends on the scale of firstborn will be a blow to consumer confidence, particularly with HH moving to a mainline game and the number of models necessary to maintain that.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

I feel like GW is moving towards a subscription model. With two chapter approved, the pace of codex updates, and the amount of supplements it's getting to point where they want over a 100 dollars a year from me just for rules.

 

I think that really makes it more likely that firstborn stick around. There are a lot of players who won't budge on Primaris and they're going want their money. Plus it's safety valve for them for when 3d printing takes off.

GW won’t lose out on their money.

Either they’re not that diehard for firstborn or they’ll just transition to HH.

Either way they’ll lose minimal players by retiring firstborn and what they do lose will be quickly replaced

Retiring existing models to Legends on the scale of firstborn will be a blow to consumer confidence, particularly with HH moving to a mainline game and the number of models necessary to maintain that.

it won’t be a blow to consumer confidence especially since it’s being so obviously built up to.

 

Consumer confidence will be just fine if the firstborn get phased out. Only a small portion of the player base is even upset enough to voice their displeasure.

Most are either happy to cross the rubicon, or do so begrudgingly.

[phandaal]

 

 

I feel like GW is moving towards a subscription model. With two chapter approved, the pace of codex updates, and the amount of supplements it's getting to point where they want over a 100 dollars a year from me just for rules.

 

I think that really makes it more likely that firstborn stick around. There are a lot of players who won't budge on Primaris and they're going want their money. Plus it's safety valve for them for when 3d printing takes off.

GW won’t lose out on their money.

Either they’re not that diehard for firstborn or they’ll just transition to HH.

Either way they’ll lose minimal players by retiring firstborn and what they do lose will be quickly replaced

Retiring existing models to Legends on the scale of firstborn will be a blow to consumer confidence, particularly with HH moving to a mainline game and the number of models necessary to maintain that.

 

 

It would be a huge blow to customer confidence, considering the time, effort, and money outlay to get an army up and running. To have that wiped away at the snap of a finger would be devastating.

 

And if someone wanted to be playing Horus Heresy, they would be playing Horus Heresy. They are especially not going to make that leap if GW says "your stuff no longer works, deal with it." No sane customer looks at that and thinks it is time to pay that company for the privilege of moving to a new game system against their will. They will just go do something else.

 

As for "meh, we will replace them with someone else..." Will they? Companies fight tooth and nail to keep their existing customers precisely because of how difficult it is to get new customers. They fight even harder to keep long term, dedicated customers. Those are like gold to any company that wants to keep putting money in its employees' and owners' pockets.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

I feel like GW is moving towards a subscription model. With two chapter approved, the pace of codex updates, and the amount of supplements it's getting to point where they want over a 100 dollars a year from me just for rules.

 

I think that really makes it more likely that firstborn stick around. There are a lot of players who won't budge on Primaris and they're going want their money. Plus it's safety valve for them for when 3d printing takes off.

GW won’t lose out on their money.

Either they’re not that diehard for firstborn or they’ll just transition to HH.

Either way they’ll lose minimal players by retiring firstborn and what they do lose will be quickly replaced

Retiring existing models to Legends on the scale of firstborn will be a blow to consumer confidence, particularly with HH moving to a mainline game and the number of models necessary to maintain that.

It would be a huge blow to customer confidence, considering the time, effort, and money outlay to get an army up and running. To have that wiped away at the snap of a finger would be devastating.

 

And if someone wanted to be playing Horus Heresy, they would be playing Horus Heresy. They are especially not going to make that leap if GW says "your stuff no longer works, deal with it." No sane customer looks at that and thinks it is time to pay that company for the privilege of moving to a new game system against their will. They will just go do something else.

 

As for "meh, we will replace them with someone else..." Will they? Companies fight tooth and nail to keep their existing customers precisely because of how difficult it is to get new customers. They fight even harder to keep long term, dedicated customers. Those are like gold to any company that wants to keep putting money in its employees' and owners' pockets.

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

[phandaal]

 

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

 

If it happens gradually, the blow is lessened for sure. So far it has not really even happened at all.

 

My Greenwing are almost entirely Primaris, so this would not really affect me. My tactical armor Primaris are converted to look like scaled up Mk 7 so to me it is the best of both worlds.

 

And if push came to shove I would just use my Deathwing as whatever whizzbang "Terminatis" nonsense GW comes up with for copyright purposes.

 

There is more to it than "they will deal with it, they will play Horus Heresy, or they will leave and not be missed" though.

[Kallas]

most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

This is why I keep saying that GW are clearly pushing Primaris - even without Primaris having OP rules, the relentless march of Primaris getting all of the releases and cool new models (especially characters) means that Firstborn get left behind and GW has more room to retire Firstborn stuff.

 

GW absolutely learned from the WHFB->AoS transition and the initial introduction of Primaris. They are playing the long game: Firstborn might not disappear today, but they are being disincentivized before retirement.

 

With regards to HH - 40k Firstborn kits are different kits: Firstborn kits contain post-Heresy armour marks (eg, 7 and 8). HH kits are, unsurprisingly, focused on the Heresy-era marks (4-6 predominantly).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

If it happens gradually, the blow is lessened for sure. So far it has not really even happened at all.

 

My Greenwing are almost entirely Primaris, so this would not really affect me. My tactical armor Primaris are converted to look like scaled up Mk 7 so to me it is the best of both worlds.

 

And if push came to shove I would just use my Deathwing as whatever whizzbang "Terminatis" nonsense GW comes up with for copyright purposes.

 

There is more to it than "they will deal with it, they will play Horus Heresy, or they will leave and not be missed" though.

it hasn’t formally or obviously, but I think they’re subtly starting the shift, and scouts are a great example. Weren’t they almost an auto pick in 8th? Now you couldn’t pay a serious tournament player to take a single squad of scouts at a GT. They’re still in the game sure, but if anyone notices them getting moved to legends no one will really care too much.

 

I think 10th will be phase 3 of the primaris releases, and either phase 2 of nerfing firstborn into obscurity or phase 1 of removing the lower performing lower picked firstborn, or a combination of both those latter phases.

 

I will be surprised if firstborn are still tournament legal in 2030 is all I’m saying.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

This is why I keep saying that GW are clearly pushing Primaris - even without Primaris having OP rules, the relentless march of Primaris getting all of the releases and cool new models (especially characters) means that Firstborn get left behind and GW has more room to retire Firstborn stuff.

 

GW absolutely learned from the WHFB->AoS transition and the initial introduction of Primaris. They are playing the long game: Firstborn might not disappear today, but they are being disincentivized before retirement.

 

With regards to HH - 40k Firstborn kits are different kits: Firstborn kits contain post-Heresy armour marks (eg, 7 and 8). HH kits are, unsurprisingly, focused on the Heresy-era marks (4-6 predominantly).

which is funny I remember one of if not my first post upon returning to the game and this forum was asking if 40k was getting the AOS treatment. A lot of people said no and borderline mocked me lol. A few years later and it seems even more evident.

 

I’ve noticed a lot of the arguments against FB being phased out are extremely short sighted.

“X hasn’t happened yet so clearly they’re staying”

Or

“Y FB unit is better than Z primaris now and in 8th, so obviously they’re not getting rid of FB”

 

Like people don’t remember the backlash of the end times.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

My point about scouts is actually a perfect example.

There’s at least 3 primaris kits that can fill the same or similar roles to scouts, and each one is better than scouts in one way or another.

From a business standpoint it makes sense to sell 3 kits rather than just one kit, to get the same roles filled.

 

Pushing scouts to the back, and likely completely out of the game fairly soon.

[DesuVult]

The arguments for firstborn being removed tend to be weak and often make things up. Several times now it is said firstborn are not in novels now but anytime it is pointed out they are in novels or are even a focus like we have seen in the ongoing Dawn of Fire series that is ignored and people just say firstborn are being removed anyway. At some point you have to actually engage with counterpoints.

 

There are brand new firstborn kits being previewed for HH like mk VI, contemptor, and spartan. The argument that GW is already planning to relegate these out of 40k is nonsensical to me and arguments they are seem to rely very hard on everyone agreeing beforehand it will happen.

 

All the kits being removed or that have been removed from FW are likely coming to GW plastic. The argument that firstborn are going to Legends requires GW to right now be planning to move kits which are not even out yet to Legends and then keep producing those kits but not sell them for 40k.

 

 

 

 

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

If it happens gradually, the blow is lessened for sure. So far it has not really even happened at all.

 

My Greenwing are almost entirely Primaris, so this would not really affect me. My tactical armor Primaris are converted to look like scaled up Mk 7 so to me it is the best of both worlds.

 

And if push came to shove I would just use my Deathwing as whatever whizzbang "Terminatis" nonsense GW comes up with for copyright purposes.

 

There is more to it than "they will deal with it, they will play Horus Heresy, or they will leave and not be missed" though.

it hasn’t formally or obviously, but I think they’re subtly starting the shift, and scouts are a great example. Weren’t they almost an auto pick in 8th? Now you couldn’t pay a serious tournament player to take a single squad of scouts at a GT. They’re still in the game sure, but if anyone notices them getting moved to legends no one will really care too much.

 

I think 10th will be phase 3 of the primaris releases, and either phase 2 of nerfing firstborn into obscurity or phase 1 of removing the lower performing lower picked firstborn, or a combination of both those latter phases.

 

I will be surprised if firstborn are still tournament legal in 2030 is all I’m saying.

If units being good or bad is an indication if a unit will be relegated then primaris would be relegated out of 40k first.

 

Scouts were top pick in 8th because they were the cheapest of bad options.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The arguments for firstborn being removed tend to be weak and often make things up. Several times now it is said firstborn are not in novels now but anytime it is pointed out they are in novels or are even a focus like we have seen in the ongoing Dawn of Fire series that is ignored and people just say firstborn are being removed anyway. At some point you have to actually engage with counterpoints.

 

There are brand new firstborn kits being previewed for HH like mk VI, contemptor, and spartan. The argument that GW is already planning to relegate these out of 40k is nonsensical to me and arguments they are seem to rely very hard on everyone agreeing beforehand it will happen.

 

All the kits being removed or that have been removed from FW are likely coming to GW plastic. The argument that firstborn are going to Legends requires GW to right now be planning to move kits which are not even out yet to Legends and then keep producing those kits but not sell them for 40k.

 

 

 

 

 

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

If it happens gradually, the blow is lessened for sure. So far it has not really even happened at all.

 

My Greenwing are almost entirely Primaris, so this would not really affect me. My tactical armor Primaris are converted to look like scaled up Mk 7 so to me it is the best of both worlds.

 

And if push came to shove I would just use my Deathwing as whatever whizzbang "Terminatis" nonsense GW comes up with for copyright purposes.

 

There is more to it than "they will deal with it, they will play Horus Heresy, or they will leave and not be missed" though.

it hasn’t formally or obviously, but I think they’re subtly starting the shift, and scouts are a great example. Weren’t they almost an auto pick in 8th? Now you couldn’t pay a serious tournament player to take a single squad of scouts at a GT. They’re still in the game sure, but if anyone notices them getting moved to legends no one will really care too much.

 

I think 10th will be phase 3 of the primaris releases, and either phase 2 of nerfing firstborn into obscurity or phase 1 of removing the lower performing lower picked firstborn, or a combination of both those latter phases.

 

I will be surprised if firstborn are still tournament legal in 2030 is all I’m saying.

If units being good or bad is an indication if a unit will be relegated then primaris would be relegated out of 40k first.

 

Scouts were top pick in 8th because they were the cheapest of bad options.

no one is ignoring anything about the books. All the books currently take place shortly after or during the indomitus crusade. So no duh there’s still going to be plenty of FB running around.

It’s also not just about the rules for units being bad, it’s about the amount of exposure units get. How much space in the codexes do various FB units take up?

Is there any FB in the army showcase pictures that take up half a page or more? Or is there only a few models pictured below their own datasheets?

 

FB in 40k forever proponents keep trying to over simplify things.

The worst primaris units get featured quite a bit in pictures in the codex. Where’s the pictures of scouts? What page?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think scouts were auto-picks because vanilla marine troops have traditionally stunk. Fixing Tactical marine threads have been around since 3rd edition when I started, they've been underwhelming all-rounders the entire time. If scouts were still troops, I think they would be a really popular choice. That said with chaos books they've been making an effort to make the troops with power armor more of a factor typically by not allowing you to just take poxwalkers, or cultists. So, it makes sense they'd do the same with scouts (I do think they should have been conditional troops or assault marines moved into the troop slot).

 

I really feel that GW is on a timer with 3d printing. Its why we are seeing warhammer+, crusade rules, and the new emphasis tournaments. You can buy a cheap 3d printer on amazon for less than a combat patrol box already. 5 years from now a printer for that price is probably going to be pretty respectable (and honesty combat patrols will probably cost more). So, I don't see them pushing people out, more so when they can't build a tournament meta without 70% winrate fractions already. It just really doesn't hurt them to leave those rules in. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I think scouts were auto-picks because vanilla marine troops have traditionally stunk. Fixing Tactical marine threads have been around since 3rd edition when I started, they've been underwhelming all-rounders the entire time. If scouts were still troops, I think they would be a really popular choice. That said with chaos books they've been making an effort to make the troops with power armor more of a factor typically by not allowing you to just take poxwalkers, or cultists. So, it makes sense they'd do the same with scouts (I do think they should have been conditional troops or assault marines moved into the troop slot).

 

I really feel that GW is on a timer with 3d printing. Its why we are seeing warhammer+, crusade rules, and the new emphasis tournaments. You can buy a cheap 3d printer on amazon for less than a combat patrol box already. 5 years from now a printer for that price is probably going to be pretty respectable (and honesty combat patrols will probably cost more). So, I don't see them pushing people out, more so when they can't build a tournament meta without 70% winrate fractions already. It just really doesn't hurt them to leave those rules in.

there’s very little evidence that 3d printing is a threat to GW right now, or in the near future.

 

 

The biggest stuff people are printing are terrain and some bits. Few seem to be printing proxies or knock offs now, and I don’t see any reason to expect that change any time soon.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Tactical squads were good when you could take a heavy and a special in a five man squad - las/plas was the hotness once upon a time.

[DesuVult]

 

The arguments for firstborn being removed tend to be weak and often make things up. Several times now it is said firstborn are not in novels now but anytime it is pointed out they are in novels or are even a focus like we have seen in the ongoing Dawn of Fire series that is ignored and people just say firstborn are being removed anyway. At some point you have to actually engage with counterpoints.

 

There are brand new firstborn kits being previewed for HH like mk VI, contemptor, and spartan. The argument that GW is already planning to relegate these out of 40k is nonsensical to me and arguments they are seem to rely very hard on everyone agreeing beforehand it will happen.

 

All the kits being removed or that have been removed from FW are likely coming to GW plastic. The argument that firstborn are going to Legends requires GW to right now be planning to move kits which are not even out yet to Legends and then keep producing those kits but not sell them for 40k.

 

 

 

 

 

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

If it happens gradually, the blow is lessened for sure. So far it has not really even happened at all.

 

My Greenwing are almost entirely Primaris, so this would not really affect me. My tactical armor Primaris are converted to look like scaled up Mk 7 so to me it is the best of both worlds.

 

And if push came to shove I would just use my Deathwing as whatever whizzbang "Terminatis" nonsense GW comes up with for copyright purposes.

 

There is more to it than "they will deal with it, they will play Horus Heresy, or they will leave and not be missed" though.

it hasn’t formally or obviously, but I think they’re subtly starting the shift, and scouts are a great example. Weren’t they almost an auto pick in 8th? Now you couldn’t pay a serious tournament player to take a single squad of scouts at a GT. They’re still in the game sure, but if anyone notices them getting moved to legends no one will really care too much.

 

I think 10th will be phase 3 of the primaris releases, and either phase 2 of nerfing firstborn into obscurity or phase 1 of removing the lower performing lower picked firstborn, or a combination of both those latter phases.

 

I will be surprised if firstborn are still tournament legal in 2030 is all I’m saying.

If units being good or bad is an indication if a unit will be relegated then primaris would be relegated out of 40k first.

 

Scouts were top pick in 8th because they were the cheapest of bad options.

no one is ignoring anything about the books. All the books currently take place shortly after or during the indomitus crusade. So no duh there’s still going to be plenty of FB running around.

It’s also not just about the rules for units being bad, it’s about the amount of exposure units get. How much space in the codexes do various FB units take up?

Is there any FB in the army showcase pictures that take up half a page or more? Or is there only a few models pictured below their own datasheets?

 

FB in 40k forever proponents keep trying to over simplify things.

The worst primaris units get featured quite a bit in pictures in the codex. Where’s the pictures of scouts? What page?

IF GW is moving firstborn to legends the new kits like the spartan are already slated to be moved to legends.

 

Let's pretend this is a GW planning meeting. Pitch me the idea to move the spartan we have not yet begun production to legends.

[Kallas]

IF GW is moving firstborn to legends the new kits like the spartan are already slated to be moved to legends.

Let's pretend this is a GW planning meeting. Pitch me the idea to move the spartan we have not yet begun production to legends.

 

Simple: Allow Primaris to use Spartans as you roll out the Firstborn line reduction.

 

Also, the Spartan is a HH product. It may get 40k rules, but that doesn't make it a 40k product first and foremost.

 

Also also, you say that people ignore things: like how you ignore that 95% (ass-pulled number, but probably pretty accurate) of all Marine imagery (be it artwork or miniatures) is purely Primaris. Primaris are front and centre and Firstborn are sidelined in the vast majority of GW/BL media. How is this not pushing Primaris forward at the expense of Firstborn?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

The arguments for firstborn being removed tend to be weak and often make things up. Several times now it is said firstborn are not in novels now but anytime it is pointed out they are in novels or are even a focus like we have seen in the ongoing Dawn of Fire series that is ignored and people just say firstborn are being removed anyway. At some point you have to actually engage with counterpoints.

 

There are brand new firstborn kits being previewed for HH like mk VI, contemptor, and spartan. The argument that GW is already planning to relegate these out of 40k is nonsensical to me and arguments they are seem to rely very hard on everyone agreeing beforehand it will happen.

 

All the kits being removed or that have been removed from FW are likely coming to GW plastic. The argument that firstborn are going to Legends requires GW to right now be planning to move kits which are not even out yet to Legends and then keep producing those kits but not sell them for 40k.

 

 

 

 

 

except it won’t happen ‘in the snap of a finger’ and again most marine players are already shifting to primaris anyway

 

If it happens gradually, the blow is lessened for sure. So far it has not really even happened at all.

 

My Greenwing are almost entirely Primaris, so this would not really affect me. My tactical armor Primaris are converted to look like scaled up Mk 7 so to me it is the best of both worlds.

 

And if push came to shove I would just use my Deathwing as whatever whizzbang "Terminatis" nonsense GW comes up with for copyright purposes.

 

There is more to it than "they will deal with it, they will play Horus Heresy, or they will leave and not be missed" though.

it hasn’t formally or obviously, but I think they’re subtly starting the shift, and scouts are a great example. Weren’t they almost an auto pick in 8th? Now you couldn’t pay a serious tournament player to take a single squad of scouts at a GT. They’re still in the game sure, but if anyone notices them getting moved to legends no one will really care too much.

 

I think 10th will be phase 3 of the primaris releases, and either phase 2 of nerfing firstborn into obscurity or phase 1 of removing the lower performing lower picked firstborn, or a combination of both those latter phases.

 

I will be surprised if firstborn are still tournament legal in 2030 is all I’m saying.

If units being good or bad is an indication if a unit will be relegated then primaris would be relegated out of 40k first.

 

Scouts were top pick in 8th because they were the cheapest of bad options.

no one is ignoring anything about the books. All the books currently take place shortly after or during the indomitus crusade. So no duh there’s still going to be plenty of FB running around.

It’s also not just about the rules for units being bad, it’s about the amount of exposure units get. How much space in the codexes do various FB units take up?

Is there any FB in the army showcase pictures that take up half a page or more? Or is there only a few models pictured below their own datasheets?

 

FB in 40k forever proponents keep trying to over simplify things.

The worst primaris units get featured quite a bit in pictures in the codex. Where’s the pictures of scouts? What page?

IF GW is moving firstborn to legends the new kits like the spartan are already slated to be moved to legends.

 

Let's pretend this is a GW planning meeting. Pitch me the idea to move the spartan we have not yet begun production to legends.

isnt originally for HH?

Regardless just make it a primaris truck, problem solved.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

I think scouts were auto-picks because vanilla marine troops have traditionally stunk. Fixing Tactical marine threads have been around since 3rd edition when I started, they've been underwhelming all-rounders the entire time. If scouts were still troops, I think they would be a really popular choice. That said with chaos books they've been making an effort to make the troops with power armor more of a factor typically by not allowing you to just take poxwalkers, or cultists. So, it makes sense they'd do the same with scouts (I do think they should have been conditional troops or assault marines moved into the troop slot).

 

I really feel that GW is on a timer with 3d printing. Its why we are seeing warhammer+, crusade rules, and the new emphasis tournaments. You can buy a cheap 3d printer on amazon for less than a combat patrol box already. 5 years from now a printer for that price is probably going to be pretty respectable (and honesty combat patrols will probably cost more). So, I don't see them pushing people out, more so when they can't build a tournament meta without 70% winrate fractions already. It just really doesn't hurt them to leave those rules in.

there’s very little evidence that 3d printing is a threat to GW right now, or in the near future.

 

 

The biggest stuff people are printing are terrain and some bits. Few seem to be printing proxies or knock offs now, and I don’t see any reason to expect that change any time soon.

 

 

People use 3d printers for more than just wargaming. It's an industry that is rapidly developing. That and 40k is getting ridiculously expensive I just feel like somethings gotta give. I can remember people talking about boycotting GW over heavy intercessors, people will start designing out of spite.

 

40k has been my main hobby for the last 20 years, and while I can afford it, I have one foot out of the door. I'm not shy about letting them know it in the surveys either. They know how hard they are pushing.   

 

 

IF GW is moving firstborn to legends the new kits like the spartan are already slated to be moved to legends.

Let's pretend this is a GW planning meeting. Pitch me the idea to move the spartan we have not yet begun production to legends.

 

Simple: Allow Primaris to use Spartans as you roll out the Firstborn line reduction.

 

Also, the Spartan is a HH product. It may get 40k rules, but that doesn't make it a 40k product first and foremost.

 

Also also, you say that people ignore things: like how you ignore that 95% (ass-pulled number, but probably pretty accurate) of all Marine imagery (be it artwork or miniatures) is purely Primaris. Primaris are front and centre and Firstborn are sidelined in the vast majority of GW/BL media. How is this not pushing Primaris forward at the expense of Firstborn?

 

 

Every company is going to advertise their newest products. Willing to bet the next marine codex has pictures of the beakies, and the Spartan.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

I think scouts were auto-picks because vanilla marine troops have traditionally stunk. Fixing Tactical marine threads have been around since 3rd edition when I started, they've been underwhelming all-rounders the entire time. If scouts were still troops, I think they would be a really popular choice. That said with chaos books they've been making an effort to make the troops with power armor more of a factor typically by not allowing you to just take poxwalkers, or cultists. So, it makes sense they'd do the same with scouts (I do think they should have been conditional troops or assault marines moved into the troop slot).

 

I really feel that GW is on a timer with 3d printing. Its why we are seeing warhammer+, crusade rules, and the new emphasis tournaments. You can buy a cheap 3d printer on amazon for less than a combat patrol box already. 5 years from now a printer for that price is probably going to be pretty respectable (and honesty combat patrols will probably cost more). So, I don't see them pushing people out, more so when they can't build a tournament meta without 70% winrate fractions already. It just really doesn't hurt them to leave those rules in.

there’s very little evidence that 3d printing is a threat to GW right now, or in the near future.

 

 

The biggest stuff people are printing are terrain and some bits. Few seem to be printing proxies or knock offs now, and I don’t see any reason to expect that change any time soon.

People use 3d printers for more than just wargaming. It's an industry that is rapidly developing. That and 40k is getting ridiculously expensive I just feel like somethings gotta give. I can remember people talking about boycotting GW over heavy intercessors, people will start designing out of spite.

 

40k has been my main hobby for the last 20 years, and while I can afford it, I have one foot out of the door. I'm not shy about letting them know it in the surveys either. They know how hard they are pushing.

 

 

IF GW is moving firstborn to legends the new kits like the spartan are already slated to be moved to legends.

Let's pretend this is a GW planning meeting. Pitch me the idea to move the spartan we have not yet begun production to legends.

Simple: Allow Primaris to use Spartans as you roll out the Firstborn line reduction.

 

Also, the Spartan is a HH product. It may get 40k rules, but that doesn't make it a 40k product first and foremost.

 

Also also, you say that people ignore things: like how you ignore that 95% (ass-pulled number, but probably pretty accurate) of all Marine imagery (be it artwork or miniatures) is purely Primaris. Primaris are front and centre and Firstborn are sidelined in the vast majority of GW/BL media. How is this not pushing Primaris forward at the expense of Firstborn?

Every company is going to advertise their newest products. Willing to bet the next marine codex has pictures of the beakies, and the Spartan.

That HI topic was mine, and I have a 3D printer I still have yet to print a knock off or proxy of an HI.

Also having a 3D printer I know the other uses, but those other uses aren’t relevant to the topic.

 

I don’t print knock offs or proxies because i and many others understand the threat 3D printing poses to GW, and rather than print the models and sink GW, and end the game we all love…

 

The new beakies and spartan are HH kits. The new codex will continue to feature primaris units, particularly the the new primaris kits that are highly likely to be coming out around that time…

Edited April 30, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[DesuVult]

If firstborn are going to be moved to Legends allowing primaris to use the spartan and then moving it to Legends makes things worse, or at firstborn vehicles not being moved to Legends?

Edited April 30, 2022 by DesuVult

[Kallas]

Every company is going to advertise their newest products. Willing to bet the next marine codex has pictures of the beakies, and the Spartan.

 

Noted and screenshotted 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

 

 

 

Snip

 

 

 

That HI topic was mine, and I have a 3D printer I still have yet to print a knock off or proxy of an HI.

Also having a 3D printer I know the other uses, but those other uses aren’t relevant to the topic.

 

I don’t print knock offs or proxies because i and many others understand the threat 3D printing poses to GW, and rather than print the models and sink GW, and end the game we all love…

 

The new beakies and spartan are HH kits. The new codex will continue to feature primaris units, particularly the the new primaris kits that are highly likely to be coming out around that time…

 

 

The other uses for the 3d printers are relevent because it increases the likelihood that people can justify them. It's great that you wouldn't hurt GW for ethical reason, but I've played against too many FW knockoffs to think that there isn't a significant portion of the community who would.  

 

 

Every company is going to advertise their newest products. Willing to bet the next marine codex has pictures of the beakies, and the Spartan.

 

Noted and screenshotted 

 

 

Thats fair, I'll make a deal with you. If they don't have pictures in the new codex I'll call them HH units even though they have 40k rules, that said if they are in there you have to drop the whole HH models aren't 40k models thing.