Paint vs Rules

[Monstra Sumus]

TLDR: want multiple Chapters in one force represented by paint only not rules, Y or N?

 

So, I want to mix up my force a little and have several Successor Chapters in the same army without having to mess with multiple detachments or a Crusade force and what have you.

 

In using the custom Chapter rules from the Codex and avoiding any First Founding Chapters is there an issue with this?

 

I don't want the benefits of two or three separate rule systems, I just want two to three different colored Chapters making up my single force. I can't find an official ruling in it as everything points towards the rules and I know I'm already avoiding using preset Chapter rules in favor of DIY Chapter picks.

 

The force in question would involve Marines Malevolent, Flesh Eaters, and a home brew.

 

I know the Flesh Eaters are the stand out as BA successors but I don't particularly like the BA rules and would prefer to use a custom pick.

 

What are the thoughts on this?

[Cleon]

Outside of tournament play, I can't imagine anyone having an issue with it. I couldn't speak for tournaments.

 

I will however warn you that you are likely to end up with three marine armies...

[Slave to Darkness]

As long as they are all using the same rules I wouldnt care, not every chapter is unique. 

[Monstra Sumus]

Outside of tournament play, I can't imagine anyone having an issue with it. I couldn't speak for tournaments.

 

I will however warn you that you are likely to end up with three marine armies...

 

Tbf the day I play in a Tourney the day something is horribly wrong! Almost every force I own wouldn't pass the entry requirements due to customization and conversion. I do what I think looks cool so I'm firmly relegated to "circle of friends" play. 

 

Considering I already have about 5 separate armies on the go already what's two more? *sobs*

 

As long as they are all using the same rules I wouldnt care, not every chapter is unique. 

 

That's what I want, same rules, different colors, nothing convoluted or trying to get advantage. 

[Rik Lightstar]

I can't see an issue with it.

 

Dark Angels wander around rocking 3 different colour schemes in one chapter, if you kept the iconography consistent it'd look pretty damn slick.

 

Rik

[Monstra Sumus]

I can't see an issue with it.

 

Dark Angels wander around rocking 3 different colour schemes in one chapter, if you kept the iconography consistent it'd look pretty damn slick.

 

Rik

 

That's a very good point. I think the unifying symbol will be a specific campaign badge on the right knee pad to show that despite there being different chapters they are the same 'force'.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

TLDR: want multiple Chapters in one force represented by paint only not rules, Y or N?

 

So, I want to mix up my force a little and have several Successor Chapters in the same army without having to mess with multiple detachments or a Crusade force and what have you.

 

In using the custom Chapter rules from the Codex and avoiding any First Founding Chapters is there an issue with this?

 

I don't want the benefits of two or three separate rule systems, I just want two to three different colored Chapters making up my single force. I can't find an official ruling in it as everything points towards the rules and I know I'm already avoiding using preset Chapter rules in favor of DIY Chapter picks.

 

The force in question would involve Marines Malevolent, Flesh Eaters, and a home brew.

 

I know the Flesh Eaters are the stand out as BA successors but I don't particularly like the BA rules and would prefer to use a custom pick.

 

What are the thoughts on this?

theres absolutely nothing to prevent this. Anyone who would try and argue wouldn’t have a foot to stand on. Paint schemes have nothing to do with rules or game play outside of victory points

[Medjugorje]

Outside of tournament play, I can't imagine anyone having an issue with it. I couldn't speak for tournaments.

 

I will however warn you that you are likely to end up with three marine armies...

even in tournaments that is okay. Some tournaments are a bit stricter but normally it should be no problem. Especially when the Bases are the same.

[Monstra Sumus]

 

TLDR: want multiple Chapters in one force represented by paint only not rules, Y or N?

 

So, I want to mix up my force a little and have several Successor Chapters in the same army without having to mess with multiple detachments or a Crusade force and what have you.

 

In using the custom Chapter rules from the Codex and avoiding any First Founding Chapters is there an issue with this?

 

I don't want the benefits of two or three separate rule systems, I just want two to three different colored Chapters making up my single force. I can't find an official ruling in it as everything points towards the rules and I know I'm already avoiding using preset Chapter rules in favor of DIY Chapter picks.

 

The force in question would involve Marines Malevolent, Flesh Eaters, and a home brew.

 

I know the Flesh Eaters are the stand out as BA successors but I don't particularly like the BA rules and would prefer to use a custom pick.

 

What are the thoughts on this?

theres absolutely nothing to prevent this. Anyone who would try and argue wouldn’t have a foot to stand on. Paint schemes have nothing to do with rules or game play outside of victory points

 

 

I appreciate the answer. In my scouring of the internet for it it was only ever answers about fielding multiple rulesets in the same army which is what I want to stay as far away from as possible because I like simplicity. 

 

It'll be a pretty striking force on the field once completed. A lot of Red, Yellow, and *totally not Alpha Legion* shiny blue. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Only the pricks would have an issue with it. Its just paint, they are all playing under the same rules. As matter of fact I can't even see the pricks having much issue with it lol.

[WrathOfTheLion]

You might run into issues in tournaments, but other than that, it sounds cool. I could imagine a game with a few Blood Angels successors with the BA defending Baal, or Guilliman leading a few of his respective chapters. Would all be good fun.

[N1SB]

Brother Nomad, what custom Chapter Tactics are you going with please?

 

Knowing the lore, like how Marines Malevolent are collateral damage happy and Flesh Tearers are cannibals...there are some good combinations and I was wondering what you ended up with.  Also, pls tell us about the 3rd Chapter, the Homebrew metallic blue one you're planning.

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

I would have absolutely no problem with and I don't know anyone who would. In fact I have never heard of this being an issue. I mean, as long as the list is made with all schemes having the same rules, then there is no problem. Valrak's last wall is a prime example. 

[Slave to Darkness]

GW even said (sure it was back in 2nd ed, but forge the narrative and all that) marine crusade armies are totally legit and even had an article in WD about multi chapter armies with some of the studios peoples personal minis all lined up in different colours. 

[Marshal Mittens]

Seems fine, they are on crusade together.

 

When I paint my modernized Templars, I am going to have some Celestial Lions with them in "Crusade Colors", because I like Celestial Lions.

[Monstra Sumus]

Brother Nomad, what custom Chapter Tactics are you going with please?

 

Knowing the lore, like how Marines Malevolent are collateral damage happy and Flesh Tearers are cannibals...there are some good combinations and I was wondering what you ended up with.  Also, pls tell us about the 3rd Chapter, the Homebrew metallic blue one you're planning.

 

I'll be going with Rapid Assault & Stalwart. The whole idea behind the force is a fast moving foot slogging force with assault weapons and melee specialists to just maul the enemy if they get close enough. I like to play for what fun I get out of a game, its less about winning for me and more about enjoying the army I use. This reflects the mobile assault element of the Marines Malevolent and the Flesh Eaters savagery through Rapid Assault and the resilience of the Third Chapter through Stalwart. The third Chapter is a creation of my own and below is a brief outline of them and their tactics. 

 

 

++ The Lacunae ++ 

 

 

Created in M.33 as a post-scouring outer world deterrent force similar to warden Chapters of the Ghoul Stars, the Solar Sentinels were tasked with picket duty beyond the perceived borders of the Imperium whilst the other warden forces were focused on containment of the inhabitants of that ghost infested region of space. These bronze and grey armored warriors took their eternal objective as fringe space conquistadors and evolved it methodically into a doctrine that saw them become experts in scouring exoplanets of alien life and battling back the scouting ships of extra-galactic threats and dark space anomalies. They are often employed by Archaeotech-adepts of the Mechanicum in extra galactic survey missions on exo-worlds in search of pre-Age of Strife technology. From M.36 to late M.41 the Chapter was considered officially lost to the beyond after a failed mechanicum expedition that levied the full force of the Chapter and their archive files were closed. Upon their return, the Chapter had shed their previous ideals and developed their own disturbing void-born culture, they were an insidious warrior cult bent on rooting out the true evil that plagues mankind; their humanity. The Lacunae swept from the void, understrength and forever changed from their experiences beyond the known. What they saw, what they encountered, is known only to them and they guard the secrets with violent intent. Many inhabitants of the fringe stars have taken to calling them Void Born, spoken as a vicious curse for the callous and brutally alien ways of these prodigal sons. 

 

The Chapters isolation have allowed the Lacunae apothecaries to historically experiment with radical sequencing of the Astartes genetic code, resulting in many of the battle brothers being physically larger and of a denser mass than traditional Astartes upon their return. This originally started in late M.38 to combat the effects of the many gravity based anomalies the Chapter engaged beyond the galactic rim but with Chapters return to Imperial space and the advent of the Primaris implants it has spurred a flurry of truly grotesque experiments to gene-bulk the War Clades (companies), unfortunately the survival rate of implementing Primaris gene-seed additions into an already monstrously mutated form have seen little margin for successful implantation survivability. Many of the brothers in the Chapter eventually stop feeling pain or physical stimulation due to the body modification and chemical abuse from the combat stimulants. Several of the War Clades adhere to their trans-human superiority more so than their brethren and seek to further the gap between mortal and Astartes through modification. They revere it as Divine Prescription, based on the great works of the Emperor Himself, who after all is above all men, so to should they be having been modeled in his image. The Lacunae truly have come to believe they are a breed apart, transcended beyond the frail mortality at their core. Comparisons have been drawn between the Lacunae philosophy and the Iron Hands blending of machine to lend strength to flesh; but for the Void Born it is not a question of their flesh failing, it is one of the soul. Mankind cannot hope to destroy that which lays beyond if it clings to the one thing that makes it weak. Its humanity. The Chapter has turned to piracy to replenish its gene-stock, raiding merchant vessels trying to avoid deep space patrols and harvesting their youth. There is an entire graveyard of derelict hulls and scuttled ships that is a testament to the vicious indoctrination process of the Lacunae. 

 

The Sithe (A blended-order made up of the Chapters Chaplains and Librarians; individuals called Singulari) are revered as omen readers, listening to endless hours of cosmic radiation in their isolation chambers, divining messages from the Aether. They ritualistically expose themselves to solar radiations to burn away their cultures perceived disgrace of mortality and let their skin grow back anew and pure. The Chapters blending of the Librarius and the Reclusiam often sees other forces avoid the Lacunae during engagements or celebrations as there have been several occasions where a Sithe Singulari has read omens that put the War-Clades at odds with their cousins. Seen as little better than renegade cultists by some and out right evil by others in their practice. It is no surprise that Inquisitorial agents have been known to investigate the actions of the Chapter, but despite their obviously morose and nihilistic views their service record indicates they perform the Emperor's Work and their targets are never Imperial in designation.  

 

For this void-faring Chapter, the warspite-class battle barge known as the Dobhar serves as their home; a salvaged relic from the Solar War during the Heresy, abandoned and adrift until found by the now dead Solar Sentinels. In its wake comes the Wailing; a flotilla of war vessels and deep space hab-ships that carry the culture of the Chapter within its hulls. A void faring caravan of charcoal black vessels and the drone of background radiation that invades all communication networks left open to receive broad wave frequencies.

 

The war plate of the Lacuae is daubed with a reflective composite that bends the light and blurs their form with dazzling color, the sheen a tribute to the monstrous nebulae they prowl. A single crescent of light in the image of an eclipse is the heraldry they bear with campaign markings and War Clade runes stamp their battle armor to denote squad and role. The trim and fixings on their armor is a dark iron with a beaten bronze for their battle helms to honor the sacrifice of their one-time ancestors, the Solar Sentinels. 

 

Masters of shock-assault the Lacunae subscribe to the belief that it is not enough to merely break their enemies body; their spirit must be broken also. Shrouded in darkness unto the last moment and then making use of sneak attack doctrines they assault their foes with ferocity in displays considered reckless by the Chapters who have engaged in combat theatres alongside them. The rely heavily on the use of atomic weaponry and combat stimulation; this reliance on stimulants and their penchant for genomodification have seen the frater of the War-Clades shrug of killing blows that would have downed another Astartes. Their resilience makes them the perfect hammer blow to shatter enemy formations. 

 

Their void warfare is a dazzling light show of battle ships focusing fire upon a single target whilst smaller craft in the fleet blockade the engagement zone with fields of flak fire and interceptor craft. They flood every vox frequency they can with twisted and distorted recordings of background radiation and solar radio clicks in an attempt to deafen their enemies communications. It is a recorded and predictable attack pattern for the Lacunae to emulate this "cutting off the head of the snake" in most naval engagements and whilst it may be predictable, there are few who can withstand the brutality of their macabre tactics.

 

 

GW even said (sure it was back in 2nd ed, but forge the narrative and all that) marine crusade armies are totally legit and even had an article in WD about multi chapter armies with some of the studios peoples personal minis all lined up in different colours. 

 

Thanks StD, I just wanted to make sure I was on the right train of thought. Everything is so micro managed by the rules these days that trying to find clear answers on narrative stuff can be a little tough. I'm making a return to gaming after 3 editions so its been a bit of an eye opener. 

[N1SB]

Awesome, Brother Nomad, thanks for sharing.  I agree with everyone (I didn't know about the tourney standards until now), and I think you should lead with this point:

 

This reflects the mobile assault element of the Marines Malevolent and the Flesh Eaters savagery through Rapid Assault and the resilience of the Third Chapter through Stalwart.

 

You got 3 Chapters driven together by everyone else keeping them away at arm's length, and you simplified them sharing the same Chapter Tactics, for both you and your opponent's convenience.  Y'know, 9th has gotten so rules bloated that any time you're simplifying things for your opponent, he'll be grateful.

 

You may have to remind your opponents about the Third War of Armageddon.  Love your conversions, looking forward to seeing them when you're ready to show them.

[Monstra Sumus]

Awesome, Brother Nomad, thanks for sharing.  I agree with everyone (I didn't know about the tourney standards until now), and I think you should lead with this point:

 

 

This reflects the mobile assault element of the Marines Malevolent and the Flesh Eaters savagery through Rapid Assault and the resilience of the Third Chapter through Stalwart.

 

 

You got 3 Chapters driven together by everyone else keeping them away at arm's length, and you simplified them sharing the same Chapter Tactics, for both you and your opponent's convenience.  Y'know, 9th has gotten so rules bloated that any time you're simplifying things for your opponent, he'll be grateful.

 

You may have to remind your opponents about the Third War of Armageddon.  Love your conversions, looking forward to seeing them when you're ready to show them.

Thank you for the very kind words, N1SB! I appreciate them. There will be a trio of Marines painted in the scheme to present soon to show how it looks together. It'll be in my Monstra Sumus thread.