Captain Idaho Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 I've been thinking on this and it's quite interesting to see which direction the game's heading and how that may influence Ultramarines lists. We favour the Tactical Doctrine in most circumstances, but with Armour of Contempt impacting our anti Power Armoured capacity from bolters, with a maximum of 2 turns for the army to enjoy the benefits of Tactical Doctrine, are more expensive Bolter Marines like Intercessors now a poorer investment to our other Troops choices? Infiltrators get that screening ability but also can be more aggressive moving into position if needed, whilst Incursors can do similar. However these are quite expensive options so usually sit in single squads in armies. Tactical Marines have the heavy weapon to give them a killer edge vs Intercessors when fighting Armour of Contempt and generally a MM or Grav Cannon makes them more dangerous anyway. So a shift in competitive Troops I think for us, but then Aggressors are going to enjoy Armour of Conempt quite a bit, whilst it does nothing for Bladeguard (actually they'll do less damage against Marines in melee and get no benefits). Terminators will be the biggest winners, though Storm Shields have lost some shine despite a good Invulnerable. Whilst vehicles and Centurions are getting a boost to their survivability, barring Dreadnoughts we won't see them dominating the tables most likely. What else might I have missed? Perhaps more use of the Strategum Tactical Expertise might be on the cards, since in Tactical Doctrine against Armour of Conempt we might now need the boost? N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) I definately think gravis armour is amazing with AoC rule. i feel the overall move is to higher AP weapons in general, 2+ save Ig tanks and nid beasties and so on. i think HBs/autocannon use vs marines is an interesting take, i wonder if we will see a shift to more lascannons and melta in use. but then next edition will drop and change the rules again. People will buy more models.. well played GW (sorry i let the cynic in me type that last bit) do we think hellblasters will become more popular too? Edited April 25, 2022 by greatcrusade08 XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5819515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeonDragon Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 I'm wondering if AoC will make landraiders viable-ish? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5820870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 Terminators in various armies got much better. AOC is still only fresh but depending on how some tournaments pan out we might see units with a native 2+ save nerfed in some way, likely a points cost hike. We will of course have to wait and see how the dust settles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5820873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 29, 2022 Author Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) I suspect Hellblasters are the premium anti-Marine platform, alongside Inceptors now. AP-4 is pretty important and goes to AP-5 in the right Doctrine. Grav Cannons are still a brilliant weapon for us I reckon, even if Marine units take less damage going forward. It's that rate of fire. Land Raiders... I fear they'll not be better without a rules rewrite. I want to be wrong on that. A -3 shot only takes the Land Raider down to 4+ save, but the problem is all those Tau, Tyranid and Eldar weapons that have much higher AP and high damage and for some reason... multiple shots. Yuk. Edited April 29, 2022 by Captain Idaho greatcrusade08, N1SB and BLACK BLΠFLY 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5820913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) Land Raider needs something like reduce damage by d3 to a minimum of one EDIT: Call it "Wall of Ceramite". Or "Giant Brick" Edited April 30, 2022 by BrainFireBob Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5821253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 30, 2022 Author Share Posted April 30, 2022 Less dice rolling is always a positive but I appreciate the sentiment totally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5821333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Well, Guilliman got a bit tougher.... now he gets his 2+ save against AP0/AP-1 and he still gets his 3++ vs everything else. greatcrusade08, BLACK BLΠFLY and Captain Idaho 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5821400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) Oh wow I just realised the Chapter Champion rules for Ultramarines just got a lot better. I used one the other day and he carved through a lot of Orks, but tellingly he has a 2+ save which means benefits from Armour of Contempt very well. No Invulnerable save? Pay no big deal he's saving on a 4+ against AP-3 anyway! He's got more attacks too thanks to the combat blade, plus slightly better rules (only slightly but enough) than the Codex version. All for quite a cheap points cost. Edited May 12, 2022 by Captain Idaho greatcrusade08 and N1SB 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5824006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 Oh wow I just realised the Chapter Champion rules for Ultramarines just got a lot better. Just need him to cross the Rubicon :) BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5824071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 Nah, not for me. I'd prefer to use the model I built and a Rhino. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5824095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 He wants to cross that river though… Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5824127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 6, 2022 Author Share Posted May 6, 2022 I'd say GW wants him to rather... Though wouldn't it be easier if GW just stopped with the distinction between Primaris and Firstborn and just called the Marines and their specific unit name? Then my kitbash would be happy alongside the official models ;) A boy can dream eh. Toxichobbit 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5824174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 It’ll never happen. Khornestar and Captain Idaho 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5824503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) Anyone thought about using Centurions again? They're not core but they have good firepower as standard at least. 2+ save with AoC is great too as we know. In fact, I'm thinking an army full of Terminators and Dreadnoughts can be very target saturated list to enable Centurions to sit on objectives with an Apothecary. Edited May 10, 2022 by Captain Idaho XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373960-armour-of-contempt-and-ultramarines/#findComment-5825876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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